Help with LAN

[Li'l Roberto]

Help with my problems setting up a Peer to Peer LAN with a Broadband
Internet Connection would be greatly appreciated.

Hardware
2 P4 systems running XP Home, Cisco/Linksys WAG54G Modem/ Router/ Wireless
Access Point, I linksys PCI Wireless NIC.

Problem
I can access the internet from both PCs, but the LAN icon in the sys
tray shows as being not connected, also My Network Places is empty on
both PC's. trying to browse the Network causes both of them to hang.
With the following error msg

"Mshome is not accessible, you might not have permission to use this
network resource, Contact the administrator of this server to find out
if you have access permissions".
The list of servers is for this workgroup is not currently not
available

From past experience setting up wired LANs, My Network Places should at
least show the shares on the local PC. I have CFMN, File & Print
Sharing, QoS & TCP/IP enabled plus some folders are actually shared.
Both PC's belong to the same workgroup - Mshome, also there are no
passwords set for logon to either PC

Even if I connect both PC's with a Xover cat5 cable and bypass the
router the problems still exist.

rgds
Li'l Roberto

 

[Doug Sherman [MVP]]

Try:

Disable the firewall on both computers. Make sure NetBIOS is enabled.

Doug Sherman
MCSE Win2k/NT4.0, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

 

[Li'l Roberto]

Try:

Disable the firewall on both computers. Make sure NetBIOS is enabled.

Doug Sherman
MCSE Win2k/NT4.0, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

Doug
thanks for the response, firewall is not enabled, and I tried your
suggestion with NetBIOS, no change.

Here is an update, I have done a fresh install of XP on the client PC
and now I can access the folders and files on the host, BUT not the
other way arround, the folders are visible but I get the following
error msg
\\XXX is not accessible, you might not have permission to use this
network resourse. Contact the administrator of the server to find out if
you have access permissions.

rgds
Li'l Roberto

 

[Doug Sherman [MVP]]

Try:

On the host computer, open a command prompt and enter:

net user guest

If the response indicates that guest is not active, enter:

net user guest /active:yes

Doug Sherman
MCSE Win2k/NT4.0, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

 

[Roland Hall]

in message
: On the host computer, open a command prompt and enter:
:
: net user guest
:
: If the response indicates that guest is not active, enter:
:
: net user guest /active:yes

Enable the guest account? You gotta' love a hacker friendly pointer from an
MVP.

One pointer deserves another:
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-197.cust203-87-118.ghr.chariot.net.au 203.87.118.197

When providing responses to help those in need, one would hope the MVPs
would follow MSFTs recent position on security.

--
Roland Hall
/* This information is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
without any warranty; without even the implied warranty of merchantability
or fitness for a particular purpose. */
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[Roland Hall]

in message
: Here is an update, I have done a fresh install of XP on the client PC
: and now I can access the folders and files on the host, BUT not the
: other way arround, the folders are visible but I get the following
: error msg
: \\XXX is not accessible, you might not have permission to use this
: network resourse. Contact the administrator of the server to find out
if
: you have access permissions.

In a peer-peer environment you need duplicate accounts on each computer with
the matching passwords per user or they will have to provide credentials
when accessing remote systems.

Shares and file system rights should be assigned appropriately based upon
need. Logon accounts should never have black, easy to guess passwords or
words that are in a dictionary. They should include upper/lowercase
letters, numbers and symbols. There is no reason to ever enable the guest
account.

You have a permissions issue. Relaxing your security should not be an
option and definitely not a plan.

--
Roland Hall
/* This information is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
without any warranty; without even the implied warranty of merchantability
or fitness for a particular purpose. */
Online Support for IT Professionals -
http://support.microsoft.com/servicedesks/technet/default.asp?fr=0&sd=tech
How-to: Windows 2000 DNS:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;308201
FAQ W2K/2K3 DNS:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;291382

 

[Li'l Roberto]

in message
: Here is an update, I have done a fresh install of XP on the client PC
: and now I can access the folders and files on the host, BUT not the
: other way arround, the folders are visible but I get the following
: error msg
: \\XXX is not accessible, you might not have permission to use this
: network resourse. Contact the administrator of the server to find out
if
: you have access permissions.

In a peer-peer environment you need duplicate accounts on each computer with
the matching passwords per user or they will have to provide credentials
when accessing remote systems.

Shares and file system rights should be assigned appropriately based upon
need. Logon accounts should never have black, easy to guess passwords or
words that are in a dictionary. They should include upper/lowercase
letters, numbers and symbols. There is no reason to ever enable the guest
account.

You have a permissions issue. Relaxing your security should not be an
option and definitely not a plan.

Roland
thanks for the response, I have seen this advice about having logon
accounts on both PC's, but why can one PC access the other
successfully, but not the other way around ?.
Logically you would expect both should give the same error msg, so
something is slightly different on the host [in my case]. What this
might be is what I am trying to nut out, I have set up several Peer
to Peer LANs similar to this one without a hitch, so I know Peer to
Peer can work without duplicate logon accounts.
Any further suggestions appreciated

rgds
Li'l Roberto

 

[Doug Sherman [MVP]]

Roberto is using XP Home Edition - all network access requires the guest
account. See:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;308007

Doug Sherman
MCSE Win2k/NT4.0, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

 

[Roland Hall]

: Roberto is using XP Home Edition - all network access requires the guest
: account. See:
:
: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;308007
:
: Doug Sherman
: MCSE Win2k/NT4.0, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

Sorry Doug...

I missed the Home XP part but shouldn't the OP be informed that a password
should be assigned to that account? MSFT made it difficult since there is
no option on the guest account to assign a password, just enable/disable.
It can be done however from the command line.

net user guest <password>

--
Roland Hall
/* This information is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
without any warranty; without even the implied warranty of merchantability
or fitness for a particular purpose. */
Technet Script Center - http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/
WSH 5.6 Documentation - http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/list/webdev.asp
MSDN Library - http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp

 

[Doug Sherman [MVP]]

In XP Pro (at least when the machine is joined to a domain), the default
Local Security policy restricts null password accounts to local logon only -
you can change this setting to give network access to blank password
accounts. In XP Home I assume that the default setting allows blank
password accounts to have network access. I confess that I dislike Simple
File Sharing and would never use it unless I had no choice. If assigning a
password to the Guest account results in limiting network access to only
those computers which have a guest account with the same password, I think
it's a good idea. Need to try this with 2 XP Home machines to confirm that
it works - I half suspect that machines with null password Guest accounts
will still have access to shares - dunno. If you have access to XP Home
machines, give this a try and let us know the results.

Doug Sherman
MCSE Win2k/NT4.0, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

 

[Roland Hall]

in message
: : > "Li'l Roberto" wrote in message
: > : > : Here is an update, I have done a fresh install of XP on the client
: PC
: > : and now I can access the folders and files on the host, BUT not
: the
: > : other way arround, the folders are visible but I get the
following
: > : error msg
: > : \\XXX is not accessible, you might not have permission to use this
: > : network resourse. Contact the administrator of the server to find
out
: > if
: > : you have access permissions.
: >
: > In a peer-peer environment you need duplicate accounts on each computer
: with
: > the matching passwords per user or they will have to provide credentials
: > when accessing remote systems.
: >
: > Shares and file system rights should be assigned appropriately based
upon
: > need. Logon accounts should never have black, easy to guess passwords
or
: > words that are in a dictionary. They should include upper/lowercase
: > letters, numbers and symbols. There is no reason to ever enable the
guest
: > account.
: >
: > You have a permissions issue. Relaxing your security should not be an
: > option and definitely not a plan.
: >
: > --
: > Roland Hall
:
: Roland
: thanks for the response, I have seen this advice about having logon
: accounts on both PC's, but why can one PC access the other
: successfully, but not the other way around ?.
: Logically you would expect both should give the same error msg, so
: something is slightly different on the host [in my case]. What this
: might be is what I am trying to nut out, I have set up several
Peer
: to Peer LANs similar to this one without a hitch, so I know Peer to
: Peer can work without duplicate logon accounts.
: Any further suggestions appreciated

I'll see if I can make this short without making it difficult to understand.

First, as Doug pointed out, the guest account is required for Windows XP
Home. (stupid on MSFTs part). You should assign a password to the guest
account which you will have to do from the command line.

net user guest <password>

http://netsecurity.about.com/cs/windowsxp/a/aa042204_2.htm

In a peer-peer environment, the account rights are determined per host. In
a domain environment, you actually logon to a domain because your rights are
authenticated based upon your rights in the domain, not per host.

Peer-peer:
The host has to have an account that you're going to use to logon with or
you enable the guest account. You can either have a password assigned or
not but it is not recommended to not have a password assigned.

You need a share for remote network access which has rights assigned to it.
When using NTFS, you have permissions set at the file system level. These
work together with the rights of the share.

Rather than reinvent the wheel...

http://www.wown.com/j_helmig/wxpsimsh.htm

IMHO, I think MSFT's XP Home Edition is a waste of money and a security
risk, not to mention it has very limited use in a domain environment. Some
things are created based upon profitability alone. XP Home Edition is one
of them. Having a home network does not mean you do not need full
networking functionality or security. MSFT still has yet to drop the "We
know what's better for you than you do" mentality. Hopefully one day it
will be deprecated. Yes, some users are dumb as stumps but this should not
be the norm for the interface. It should be an option.

Idiot mode
Some Help mode
Expert mode

If the revenues of "Idiot's Guide to..." are any testament, the idiot mode
shouldn't turn anyone off and we'd probably be surprised how many would use
it.

My advice is if your budget can handle it, upgrade to XP Pro. Making your
computer functional should not reduce your security protection.

--
Roland Hall
/* This information is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
without any warranty; without even the implied warranty of merchantability
or fitness for a particular purpose. */
Technet Script Center - http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/
WSH 5.6 Documentation - http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/list/webdev.asp
MSDN Library - http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp

 

[Li'l Roberto]

In XP Pro (at least when the machine is joined to a domain), the default
Local Security policy restricts null password accounts to local logon only -
you can change this setting to give network access to blank password
accounts. In XP Home I assume that the default setting allows blank
password accounts to have network access. I confess that I dislike Simple
File Sharing and would never use it unless I had no choice. If assigning a
password to the Guest account results in limiting network access to only
those computers which have a guest account with the same password, I think
it's a good idea. Need to try this with 2 XP Home machines to confirm that
it works - I half suspect that machines with null password Guest accounts
will still have access to shares - dunno. If you have access to XP Home
machines, give this a try and let us know the results.

Doug Sherman
MCSE Win2k/NT4.0, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

Doug
I have successfully created several XP Home based Peer to Peer LANs
without passwords set, or guest account enabled.
My initial problem still exists, Host PC can access Client PC's files and
folders, but Client can only see Host's shares and not access them.
Any other thoughts /ideas ?.

rgds
Li'l Roberto

 

[Li'l Roberto]

First, as Doug pointed out, the guest account is required for Windows XP
Home. (stupid on MSFTs part). You should assign a password to the guest
account which you will have to do from the command line.

Here is an update of the situation, after spending several hours searching
on the web and trying to resolve the conectivity problem I gave up and
installed a new HDD, then set up XP Home fresh on the host.
Please note, no logon password, also without the guest account being
enabled and everything works as expected, unfortunately this doesn't
tell me what the problem was. Better to know these things for future
reference - but the setup does work.

thanks for all your input

rgds
Li'l Roberto

 

[Phillip Windell]

IMHO, I think MSFT's XP Home Edition is a waste of money and a security
risk, not to mention it has very limited use in a domain environment. Some
things are created based upon profitability alone. XP Home Edition is one
of them. Having a home network does not mean you do not need full
networking functionality or security. MSFT still has yet to drop the "We
know what's better for you than you do" mentality. Hopefully one day it
will be deprecated. Yes, some users are dumb as stumps but this should not
be the norm for the interface. It should be an option.

Idiot mode
Some Help mode
Expert mode

You get "cheers" from me on that. I really wish XP Home would just be
eliminated and have one single type of "XP" that is modeled after the "Pro"
Edition. They can add in features, or "modes", that can neuter it down to
"Idiot Mode" when such a situation is required.

 

[Roland Hall]

: : > IMHO, I think MSFT's XP Home Edition is a waste of money and a security
: > risk, not to mention it has very limited use in a domain environment.
: Some
: > things are created based upon profitability alone. XP Home Edition is
one
: > of them. Having a home network does not mean you do not need full
: > networking functionality or security. MSFT still has yet to drop the
"We
: > know what's better for you than you do" mentality. Hopefully one day it
: > will be deprecated. Yes, some users are dumb as stumps but this should
: not
: > be the norm for the interface. It should be an option.
: >
: > Idiot mode
: > Some Help mode
: > Expert mode
:
: You get "cheers" from me on that. I really wish XP Home would just be
: eliminated and have one single type of "XP" that is modeled after the
"Pro"
: Edition. They can add in features, or "modes", that can neuter it down
to
: "Idiot Mode" when such a situation is required.

You said it. Some things that happen in Redmond appear to follow no logic
whatsoever. I'm not in marketing so perhaps it makes sense from that
angle?!

--
Roland Hall
/* This information is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
without any warranty; without even the implied warranty of merchantability
or fitness for a particular purpose. */
Online Support for IT Professionals -
http://support.microsoft.com/servicedesks/technet/default.asp?fr=0&sd=tech
How-to: Windows 2000 DNS:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;308201
FAQ W2K/2K3 DNS:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;291382

 

[Roland Hall]

: <snip>
:
: > First, as Doug pointed out, the guest account is required for Windows XP
: > Home. (stupid on MSFTs part). You should assign a password to the guest
: > account which you will have to do from the command line.
: > --
: > Roland Hall
:
: Here is an update of the situation, after spending several hours
searching
: on the web and trying to resolve the conectivity problem I gave up and
: installed a new HDD, then set up XP Home fresh on the host.
: Please note, no logon password, also without the guest account being
: enabled and everything works as expected, unfortunately this doesn't
: tell me what the problem was. Better to know these things for future
: reference - but the setup does work.

Roberto...

I don't have a lot of experience networking XP Home for many reasons, mainly
it's not designed for business, hence the name. From what I've read, I gave
you my interpretation of how it should work. Does that mean it works other
ways? No, but it does mean it is not very secure. Granted I doubt there is
an OS out there that is 100% secure and security at the desktop should not
be your first line of defense but it stands to reason that something is
amiss when it requires the enabling of one account to make another one
work?!

--
Roland Hall
/* This information is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
without any warranty; without even the implied warranty of merchantability
or fitness for a particular purpose. */
Online Support for IT Professionals -
http://support.microsoft.com/servicedesks/technet/default.asp?fr=0&sd=tech
How-to: Windows 2000 DNS:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;308201
FAQ W2K/2K3 DNS:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;291382

 

[Doug Sherman [MVP]]

One of the curious properties of Simple File Sharing is that if you disable
the Guest account in Computer Management/Users, you only affect the ability
to logon locally as Guest.

See: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;304040

Disabling the Guest user account does NOT disable it for file sharing
purposes. As a result, XP Home machines can normally share files even
though the Guest account appears to be disabled. Equally curiously,
sometimes when you are getting access denied messages on an XP Home machine,
enabling the Guest account on the target machine will solve the problem. If
this makes sense to you, congratulations!

Doug Sherman
MCSE Win2k/NT4.0, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

 

[Phillip Windell]

One of the curious properties of Simple File Sharing is that if you disable
the Guest account in Computer Management/Users, you only affect the ability
to logon locally as Guest.

See: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;304040

Disabling the Guest user account does NOT disable it for file sharing
purposes. As a result, XP Home machines can normally share files even
though the Guest account appears to be disabled. Equally curiously,
sometimes when you are getting access denied messages on an XP Home machine,
enabling the Guest account on the target machine will solve the problem. If
this makes sense to you, congratulations!

Just goes to show you,....XP Home should be taken (quietly) out back and
shot and hope no one notices or even cares that it isn't around anymore.

 

[Roland Hall]

in message
: One of the curious properties of Simple File Sharing is that if you
disable
: the Guest account in Computer Management/Users, you only affect the
ability
: to logon locally as Guest.
:
: See: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;304040
:
: Disabling the Guest user account does NOT disable it for file sharing
: purposes. As a result, XP Home machines can normally share files even
: though the Guest account appears to be disabled. Equally curiously,
: sometimes when you are getting access denied messages on an XP Home
machine,
: enabling the Guest account on the target machine will solve the problem.
If
: this makes sense to you, congratulations!

Nothing makes sense to me anymore, like how Jane Fonda, the Dixie Chicks,
Sean Penn and Scary John Kerry can give aid and comfort to the enemy during
a time of war and not be sitting in Leavenworth or hung from the nearest
tree.

 

[Roland Hall]

in message
: "Doug Sherman [MVP]" wrote in message
: : > One of the curious properties of Simple File Sharing is that if you
: disable
: > the Guest account in Computer Management/Users, you only affect the
: ability
: > to logon locally as Guest.
: >
: > See: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;304040
: >
: > Disabling the Guest user account does NOT disable it for file sharing
: > purposes. As a result, XP Home machines can normally share files even
: > though the Guest account appears to be disabled. Equally curiously,
: > sometimes when you are getting access denied messages on an XP Home
: machine,
: > enabling the Guest account on the target machine will solve the problem.
: If
: > this makes sense to you, congratulations!
:
: Just goes to show you,....XP Home should be taken (quietly) out back and
: shot and hope no one notices or even cares that it isn't around anymore.

Don't forget the XP Home Marketing Team.