Help HELP HELP

G

Guest

Have Vista home Basics, problem witgh security recently was causing my system
to crash it was Norton which surprised me. Any one tried ONECARE advise would
be great please. also on startup a couple of times I get 'product key not
valid' and then normal screen with little printing in corner telling me
version not genuine. anyone else had this problem..
 
C

Carey Frisch [MVP]

What's happening is called a Tamper State. There is a program that is
incompatible with Vista and when that program does something that Vista
doesn't allow (such as change a Licensing file or accessing the Kernel in an
unauthorized way), Vista goes into a Non-Genuine state.

There is two types of programs that cause a Tamper State:

a) A program that can be launched at any time, by the user (such as a game
or application)
b) A program that launches at Start up and that continually runs (such as
an anti-virus program)

~For a) type programs, once you reboot, Vista goes back to a genuine state
(because the program is no longer running) But Vista will go back into a
Non-Genuine state if you run the program again.

~For b) type programs, if you reboot, Vista is still in the tamper state
because the program automatically re-launched after re-boot.

(I recommend that you first look at this support article
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931699/en-us under the Cause header for
known incompatible programs that are known to cause this type of issue. If
you do not have any of the listed programs installed, continue to reading
the rest of this post)

I believe you are experiencing a Tamper state caused by the b) type of
program, since you have not mentioned that Vista goes back into a Genuine
state after reboot.

In your Diagnostic report above, you can see the line that starts with 'TTS
Error:' followed by a bunch of letters and numbers: M:20070915120710371

If you break down the numbers, you will get a time stamp:

(year) (month) (day) (time in 24format) (milliseconds)
M:2007 09 15 1207 10371

Now that we know the time of the tamper, you can now try to tie that time
with a program. To do this, follow the below steps:

1) Click the 'Start' button
2) Right Click 'Computer'
3) Select 'Manage'
4) Continue thru the "Windows needs your permission to continue" window (if
any)
5) Click the arrow next to 'Reliability and Performance'
6) Click the arrow next to 'Monitoring Tools'
7) Click on 'Reliability Monitor'
8) Click on the graph above the date 9/18/2007
9) Below the graph, look at the report titled "Software (Un)Installs for
9/18/2007"
10) Look for any program that shows "Application Install" in the 'Activity'
column.
This will tell you what program(s) were installed on the Tamper date and
should help you narrow down the program that could be causing the issue.
Hopefully there will only be one program listed, if so, uninstall it, reboot
(may require 2 reboots) and see it Vista goes back into a Genuine state.
If there are more than one program, that were installed on that date,
uninstall each, double reboot, till you find the one that resolves your
issue.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

--------------------------------------------------------------------

:

Have Vista home Basics, problem witgh security recently was causing my
system
to crash it was Norton which surprised me. Any one tried ONECARE advise
would
be great please. also on startup a couple of times I get 'product key not
valid' and then normal screen with little printing in corner telling me
version not genuine. anyone else had this problem..
 
C

Chad Harris

Hi Barb--

Are you now using WOC? It's hard to tell from your post. They have a 90
free trial of 2.0 which is about to or has RTM'd.

It uses less resources, is less error prone than Norton products, doesn't
interfere with emailing from Outlook and Win Mail or OE as does Norton, and
isn't a resource hog like Norton. I'vce used it for a long time, and it
works well. It also updates behind the scenes which Norton has never done.

CH
 
J

John Adams

I have used OneCare for a long time. I love it. I have had no problems
with it whatsoever, even in 64 bit.

And by the way, I would get rid of Norton immediately, it probably caused
your validation problem as well.
 
S

Stephan Rose

What's happening is called a Tamper State. There is a program that is
incompatible with Vista and when that program does something that Vista
doesn't allow (such as change a Licensing file or accessing the Kernel
in an unauthorized way), Vista goes into a Non-Genuine state.

Tamper state!?!? Ya gotta be kidding me...

Stuff like that makes me absolutely appreciate the state Vista is in on
my computer: The not installed state.

Works flawlessly. =)

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
A

Alias

Carey said:
What's happening is called a Tamper State. There is a program that is
incompatible with Vista and when that program does something that Vista
doesn't allow (such as change a Licensing file or accessing the Kernel in an
unauthorized way), Vista goes into a Non-Genuine state.

There is two types of programs that cause a Tamper State:

a) A program that can be launched at any time, by the user (such as a game
or application)
b) A program that launches at Start up and that continually runs (such as
an anti-virus program)

~For a) type programs, once you reboot, Vista goes back to a genuine state
(because the program is no longer running) But Vista will go back into a
Non-Genuine state if you run the program again.

~For b) type programs, if you reboot, Vista is still in the tamper state
because the program automatically re-launched after re-boot.

(I recommend that you first look at this support article
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931699/en-us under the Cause header for
known incompatible programs that are known to cause this type of issue. If
you do not have any of the listed programs installed, continue to reading
the rest of this post)

I believe you are experiencing a Tamper state caused by the b) type of
program, since you have not mentioned that Vista goes back into a Genuine
state after reboot.

In your Diagnostic report above, you can see the line that starts with 'TTS
Error:' followed by a bunch of letters and numbers: M:20070915120710371

If you break down the numbers, you will get a time stamp:

(year) (month) (day) (time in 24format) (milliseconds)
M:2007 09 15 1207 10371

Now that we know the time of the tamper, you can now try to tie that time
with a program. To do this, follow the below steps:

1) Click the 'Start' button
2) Right Click 'Computer'
3) Select 'Manage'
4) Continue thru the "Windows needs your permission to continue" window (if
any)
5) Click the arrow next to 'Reliability and Performance'
6) Click the arrow next to 'Monitoring Tools'
7) Click on 'Reliability Monitor'
8) Click on the graph above the date 9/18/2007
9) Below the graph, look at the report titled "Software (Un)Installs for
9/18/2007"
10) Look for any program that shows "Application Install" in the 'Activity'
column.
This will tell you what program(s) were installed on the Tamper date and
should help you narrow down the program that could be causing the issue.
Hopefully there will only be one program listed, if so, uninstall it, reboot
(may require 2 reboots) and see it Vista goes back into a Genuine state.
If there are more than one program, that were installed on that date,
uninstall each, double reboot, till you find the one that resolves your
issue.

Man, this "genuine" crap just gets worse and worse and more and more out
of hand. "Tamper State"!? How is your average computer user going to
figure out how to do the above?
 
A

Alias

John said:
I have used OneCare for a long time. I love it. I have had no problems
with it whatsoever, even in 64 bit.

And by the way, I would get rid of Norton immediately, it probably
caused your validation problem as well.

As much as I agree with you about Norton, why should it reduce Vista
into a "tamper state"!?
 
A

Alias

Stephan said:
Tamper state!?!? Ya gotta be kidding me...

Stuff like that makes me absolutely appreciate the state Vista is in on
my computer: The not installed state.

Works flawlessly. =)

If it goes into a tamper state due to the presence of Norton, I see a
lawsuit brewing and more fines from the EU. It's this kind of crap that
makes me glad I found out about Ubuntu.
 
S

Stephan Rose

Man, this "genuine" crap just gets worse and worse and more and more out
of hand. "Tamper State"!? How is your average computer user going to
figure out how to do the above?

Reading his list of steps above, I don't get how people can call a
command line cryptic or difficult...

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
And
 
G

Guest

thanks for the advice Im still learning how to do things with my vista and
its been realy annoying and frustrating with the problems Ive had. Im showing
my ignorance here but I dont know how to remove shoes to be able to email
you.
 
G

Guest

thank you so very much Im still new to this computer thing and have had lots
of problems, Ill do as you instructed thanks again.
 
G

Guest

thanks john Im on the 90 day free trial now so good to hear other people are
using it and having no trouble
 
G

Guest

thanks for the advice ys its WOC Im on the 90 day free trial now after
uninstalling Norton the other day. great to hear someone else thinks its
good
 
C

Charlie Tame

Stephan said:
Tamper state!?!? Ya gotta be kidding me...

Stuff like that makes me absolutely appreciate the state Vista is in on
my computer: The not installed state.

Works flawlessly. =)


That was the best joke I've heard in a while, be fitting a "Tilt" switch
in laptops next :)
 
C

Charlie Tame

Alias said:
As much as I agree with you about Norton, why should it reduce Vista
into a "tamper state"!?


Ah maybe that's a typo, perhaps it should be "Temper" state as in
"Throwing a tantrum", which might refer to the machine or the operator
maybe?
 
A

Alias

Barb said:
thanks for the advice Im still learning how to do things with my vista and
its been realy annoying and frustrating with the problems Ive had. Im showing
my ignorance here but I dont know how to remove shoes to be able to email
you.

Remove the word "shoes" from the email address.
 

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