HELP! Having trouble with memory and bus speed

[Andy in NJ]

Ok, here's my problem:

I have a Biostar M7VIG Pro motherboard
(http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdetails.asp?model=m7vig+pro). I just replaced
the AMD Duron 1.2 ghz CPU I had with an AMD AthlonXP 1800+. My system memory
is two 512meg SDRAM modules. The system bus is set to 100mhz. My OS is
Windows XP Home.

When I had the Duron installed, if I attempted to change the bus speed to
133mhz, the computer would just beep at me when I turned it on. I found out
that this Duron did not support 133mhz bus speed. When I installed the
Athlon, I expected to be able to up the bus speed to 133mhz. When I did
this, the computer appeared to be loading just fine, but just before it got
to the user login screen (I have 2 profiles - 1 for me and 1 for my wife),
it freezes up at the Windows XP logo screen (the little green bar that is
moving from left to right stops moving).

I attempted to install two 1 gig DDR modules when I upgraded to the Athlon.
When I boot up (remember, we're at 100mhz bus speed), I get a ton of memory
errors and unstable performance to the point of the computer rebooting
itself. I got the same results with the Duron. I understand that I may need
to buy a better quality memory module, and I understand the registered vs
non-registered aspect. The modules say "1GB DDR333 Module 16C G37 Y34" and
have what I can only assume to be a part number (since they both have the
same number) under the barcode on the memory's label: 00020040628.

So here are my questions - can you think of any reason why the computer
wouldn't accept the 133mhz bus speed? Other than buying registered memory,
can you think of any other reasons for the erratic behavior of the memory?

 

[Chris Stolworthy]

Ok, here's my problem:

I have a Biostar M7VIG Pro motherboard
(http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdetails.asp?model=m7vig+pro). I just replaced
the AMD Duron 1.2 ghz CPU I had with an AMD AthlonXP 1800+. My system memory
is two 512meg SDRAM modules. The system bus is set to 100mhz. My OS is
Windows XP Home.

When I had the Duron installed, if I attempted to change the bus speed to
133mhz, the computer would just beep at me when I turned it on. I found out
that this Duron did not support 133mhz bus speed. When I installed the
Athlon, I expected to be able to up the bus speed to 133mhz. When I did
this, the computer appeared to be loading just fine, but just before it got
to the user login screen (I have 2 profiles - 1 for me and 1 for my wife),
it freezes up at the Windows XP logo screen (the little green bar that is
moving from left to right stops moving).

I attempted to install two 1 gig DDR modules when I upgraded to the Athlon.
When I boot up (remember, we're at 100mhz bus speed), I get a ton of memory
errors and unstable performance to the point of the computer rebooting
itself. I got the same results with the Duron. I understand that I may need
to buy a better quality memory module, and I understand the registered vs
non-registered aspect. The modules say "1GB DDR333 Module 16C G37 Y34" and
have what I can only assume to be a part number (since they both have the
same number) under the barcode on the memory's label: 00020040628.

So here are my questions - can you think of any reason why the computer
wouldn't accept the 133mhz bus speed? Other than buying registered memory,
can you think of any other reasons for the erratic behavior of the memory?

Well first you state that you are running SDram, then you say later you
install DDR modules? So the board supports both? Or one or the other? As
far as your SDram modules are concerned, they are 100MHz I assume and then
what you were doing was effectively "overclocking" the memory modules by
going to 133Mhz which they could not handle so you started to get the
freezing.

As far as your DDR goes...buying registered most likely will *NOT* fix
your problem. Are these modules used? Is it possible they are actually
damaged?

-Chris

 

[Andy in NJ]

--
73! de Andy KC2SSB
http://shorecogs.tripod.com
AIM: shorecogs

 

[Andy in NJ]

Well first you state that you are running SDram, then you say later you
install DDR modules? So the board supports both? Or one or the other? As
far as your SDram modules are concerned, they are 100MHz I assume and then
what you were doing was effectively "overclocking" the memory modules by
going to 133Mhz which they could not handle so you started to get the
freezing.

As far as your DDR goes...buying registered most likely will *NOT* fix
your problem. Are these modules used? Is it possible they are actually
damaged?

-Chris

The motherboard has 2 slots for DDR and 2 slots for SDR. Only 1 type can be
used at a time with support for up to 2 GB of ram. The SDR is 133mhz. The
DDR is new memory and were tested prior to shipping.

 

[kony]

Ok, here's my problem:

I have a Biostar M7VIG Pro motherboard
(http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdetails.asp?model=m7vig+pro). I just replaced
the AMD Duron 1.2 ghz CPU I had with an AMD AthlonXP 1800+. My system memory
is two 512meg SDRAM modules. The system bus is set to 100mhz. My OS is
Windows XP Home.

When I had the Duron installed, if I attempted to change the bus speed to
133mhz, the computer would just beep at me when I turned it on. I found out
that this Duron did not support 133mhz bus speed. When I installed the
Athlon, I expected to be able to up the bus speed to 133mhz. When I did
this, the computer appeared to be loading just fine, but just before it got
to the user login screen (I have 2 profiles - 1 for me and 1 for my wife),
it freezes up at the Windows XP logo screen (the little green bar that is
moving from left to right stops moving).

Any time system has FSB or memory bus increase OR DECREASE (since
memory timings may drop as a result) it is very helpful to run
http://www.memtest86.com for several hours prior to booting the
OS. Booting OS while system has memory or other errors may
corrupt who-knows-what and at best you'd then realize it and
reinstall whole OS, but at worse the problem was intermittent and
much data was corrupted, even parts replaced beyond those causing
the problem.

After determining if memtest86 shows errors, you can procceed
from there. Also check bios health monitor (and if you have a
multimeter, the power supply plugs) for voltage levels, and CPU
temp.

I attempted to install two 1 gig DDR modules when I upgraded to the Athlon.
When I boot up (remember, we're at 100mhz bus speed), I get a ton of memory
errors and unstable performance to the point of the computer rebooting
itself. I got the same results with the Duron. I understand that I may need
to buy a better quality memory module, and I understand the registered vs
non-registered aspect. The modules say "1GB DDR333 Module 16C G37 Y34" and
have what I can only assume to be a part number (since they both have the
same number) under the barcode on the memory's label: 00020040628.

So here are my questions - can you think of any reason why the computer
wouldn't accept the 133mhz bus speed? Other than buying registered memory,
can you think of any other reasons for the erratic behavior of the memory?

1) It's a Biostar motherboard - not known for quality and not
too many bios updates to resolve issues like memory compatibility

2) You're trying to run more than one double-sided module on a
KM266 chipset, the integrated video derivative of a KT266A, which
itself isn't particularly stable... hence Via releasing
essentially same thing later as KT333 and KT400 which improved
stability.

Other issues could be (as briefly mentioned to test above) that
system power supply is insufficient. Perhaps not, but often I
see poor power supplies paired with these all-integrated low-end
motherboards. Ignoring CPU and memory, even motherboard itself
will tolerate poor power better at the lower 100MHz FSB rate.

GIven you have all this memory and the two CPUs, I suggest
building a second system... use the Duron, PC133 memory and
Biosstar board for one system, and buy another motherboard for
the Athlon XP1800, perhaps an Nforce2 board.

In other words, just because a chipset can theoretically suport
"X" amount of memory, it doesn't necessarily mean any given
motherboard can really run that memory stabily, especially if the
memory is only "standard" grade instead of premium memory running
far underspec, which is a horrible value since a more modern
board could cost less than the price difference for really good
memory. Even a cheap board (like a Biostar) nForce2 might have
no trouble running your two 1GB modules, though I've never tried
that specific configuration and it'd depend on the specific
memory too... then again, your Athlon does only need DDR266 FSB,
there should be enough of a margin to do it.

 

[Andy in NJ]

Any time system has FSB or memory bus increase OR DECREASE (since
memory timings may drop as a result) it is very helpful to run
http://www.memtest86.com for several hours prior to booting the
OS. Booting OS while system has memory or other errors may
corrupt who-knows-what and at best you'd then realize it and
reinstall whole OS, but at worse the problem was intermittent and
much data was corrupted, even parts replaced beyond those causing
the problem.

After determining if memtest86 shows errors, you can procceed
from there. Also check bios health monitor (and if you have a
multimeter, the power supply plugs) for voltage levels, and CPU
temp.

I'm not sure I understand you. How will running memtest60 tell me if the DDR
memory that I have will work with my motherboard?

Other issues could be (as briefly mentioned to test above) that
system power supply is insufficient. Perhaps not, but often I
see poor power supplies paired with these all-integrated low-end
motherboards. Ignoring CPU and memory, even motherboard itself
will tolerate poor power better at the lower 100MHz FSB rate.

I had thought about the power supply issue. I'm just not sure how to test
how well my power supply is working. My other components are: ATI Radeon
9600 pro video card, Santa Cruz Turtle Beach sound card. I also run a number
of USB devices (such as a wireless keyboard/mouse). How could I determine if
my power supply is insufficient?

GIven you have all this memory and the two CPUs, I suggest
building a second system... use the Duron, PC133 memory and
Biosstar board for one system, and buy another motherboard for
the Athlon XP1800, perhaps an Nforce2 board.

Unfortunately this isn't an option right now, which is why I'm trying to
improve on what I have.

In other words, just because a chipset can theoretically suport
"X" amount of memory, it doesn't necessarily mean any given
motherboard can really run that memory stabily, especially if the
memory is only "standard" grade instead of premium memory running
far underspec, which is a horrible value since a more modern
board could cost less than the price difference for really good
memory. Even a cheap board (like a Biostar) nForce2 might have
no trouble running your two 1GB modules, though I've never tried
that specific configuration and it'd depend on the specific
memory too... then again, your Athlon does only need DDR266 FSB,
there should be enough of a margin to do it.

I appretiate you taking the time to write the reply. It's very informative.

 

[kony]

I'm not sure I understand you. How will running memtest60 tell me if the DDR
memory that I have will work with my motherboard?

Quite simply, in theory the memory IS supported, but in practice
it may not run stabily. Testing the memory is the way to
determine if it's stable, before booting to OS, risking any
files/data manipulated while you might have memory errors.

I had thought about the power supply issue. I'm just not sure how to test
how well my power supply is working. My other components are: ATI Radeon
9600 pro video card, Santa Cruz Turtle Beach sound card. I also run a number
of USB devices (such as a wireless keyboard/mouse). How could I determine if
my power supply is insufficient?

I already suggested taking voltage readings.
What make/model power supply is it?
Some generics may seem fine for a time, but rapidly degrade, such
that "right now" you might only notice the problem when trying to
upgrade the system, but with more time, further degradation of
the power supply "could" make even the base, original system
config instable. These are things we have insufficient data to
determine.

Unfortunately this isn't an option right now, which is why I'm trying to
improve on what I have.

A nice theory, but if you simply can't get it to work, you'll
have no alternative... if the board simply won't run the memory
stable there is no magic bullet that will fix that, except
possibly buying premium memory and running it at relaxed timings,
which as i already mentioned, may end up being more expensive
than the new motherboard.

I appretiate you taking the time to write the reply. It's very informative.

You might also see if bios allows manually setting slower timings
(higher numbers) at same (133MHz) memory & FSB speed.

 

[Andy in NJ]

I already suggested taking voltage readings.

You're speaking greek to me. Take voltage readings?

What make/model power supply is it?

Not sure. Next time I open it up, I'll look. It came with the case (custom
computer).

 

[kony]

You're speaking greek to me. Take voltage readings?

Yes, if you have a multimeter, take measurements at the ATX
connector while system is on. If not, see what the bios hardware
monitor screen and/or windows hardware monitor utility reports
(for voltage levels, particularly 3V, 5V, & 12V).

Not sure. Next time I open it up, I'll look. It came with the case (custom
computer).

Usually "unknown, came-with-case" power supplies are pretty low
quality. However, it is less common for only memory to have
errors from poor or insufficient power, if your bios allows
setting asynchronous memory speed, you might see if the system is
stable with FSB @ 100MHz but memory at 133MHz, or vice-versa, FSB
@ 133 and memory @ 100. This would tend to isolate the faster
bus somewhat. Even so, better to first test with memtest86, and
see if relaxing the memory timings or changing FSB speed lower
eliminates errors (assuming there are errors reported by
memtest86).

 

[Andy in NJ]

Yes, if you have a multimeter, take measurements at the ATX
connector while system is on. If not, see what the bios hardware
monitor screen and/or windows hardware monitor utility reports
(for voltage levels, particularly 3V, 5V, & 12V).

Well, I don't have a multimeter. Here's what Everest gives me on voltage:

Voltage Values
CPU Core 1.76 V
+3.3 V 3.22 V
+5 V 5.00 V
+12 V 12.34 V
-12 V -12.12 V
-5 V -5.20 V
+5 V Standby 4.85 V
VBAT Battery 3.26 V

 

[kony]

Well, I don't have a multimeter. Here's what Everest gives me on voltage:

Voltage Values
CPU Core 1.76 V
+3.3 V 3.22 V
+5 V 5.00 V
+12 V 12.34 V
-12 V -12.12 V
-5 V -5.20 V
+5 V Standby 4.85 V
VBAT Battery 3.26 V

Those look fine, or at least, they do not indicate a problem, are
about what would be expected for a system without a lot of hard
drives and a board using 5V for CPU power as yours does. This
does not mean we can be sure the power is ok, but the above does
not suggest a problem. For more thorough investigation you might
run a stress test like Prime95's torture test and note whether
the 5V or vcore drops very much, but these would be a far higher
stress than the booting of OS that you mentioned as failing.

You still have not mentioned memtest86, hopefully you ran that
already and found no errors... if you haven't verified that no
memory errors are occuring I would now suggest you format the
hard drive and completely reinstall everything comprised of files
written since the onset of the instability (unless system is now
back in it's former stable state, in which case we can't use the
voltage readings above as an indicator since it is not the new
hardware configuration that was failing).

 

[Andy in NJ]

Those look fine, or at least, they do not indicate a problem, are
about what would be expected for a system without a lot of hard
drives and a board using 5V for CPU power as yours does. This
does not mean we can be sure the power is ok, but the above does
not suggest a problem. For more thorough investigation you might
run a stress test like Prime95's torture test and note whether
the 5V or vcore drops very much, but these would be a far higher
stress than the booting of OS that you mentioned as failing.

You still have not mentioned memtest86, hopefully you ran that
already and found no errors... if you haven't verified that no
memory errors are occuring I would now suggest you format the
hard drive and completely reinstall everything comprised of files
written since the onset of the instability (unless system is now
back in it's former stable state, in which case we can't use the
voltage readings above as an indicator since it is not the new
hardware configuration that was failing).

Reformating the hard drive is not going to happen. The 1 gig of SDRam is
working just fine. It just becomes unstable when I replace the SDR with the
2 gigs of DDR. I haven't tried memtest yet, but when I do, all I'll be doing
is testing the memory that is in there, not the memory that is giving me
problems, so I still don't see how that's going to help, but I'll try it.
The readings in my previous post were with the system being stable.

 

[Charles]

If your computer can handle both SDRAM and DDR there may be a vlotage
selector or something. They use a different voltage. Many people
have problems with these types of motherboards. When you purchased
the RAM did you make sure your motherboard was compatible with the
RAM?

Never ever buy RAM unless you can insure compatibility first. Most
manufacturers will have a compatibility section at the Manufacturers
website. If you did not know who made the RAM when you purchased it
that is even more foolish. However, find out what the guarantee is on
the RAM and see if you can return it.

I dislike it when people call DDR SDRAM because it is just confusing.
Why not call it what it is?

These motherboards that take 2 different kinds of RAM Should be
avoided. They are aimed at low-end builds not high performance
amounts of RAM. The motherboard may not be able to even use a 1 Gig
DDR module. It might be a good Idea to just buy a new motherboard
like the Asus A7N8X-X for $65.00 or so. Having never purchased a 1GB
RAM Module I know little about their use. However, I would be
willing to bet the sell is geared toward Servers and high powered
workstations.

RAM can be difficult to buy if you dont insure it is compatible first.
Might also help to ask in different forums like at www.pcmech.com if
anyone else has your motherboard.