HD longevity

[Pdigmking]

I think my machine is burning through HDs too fast. I just replaced a HD
about a year ago, and already I'm finding a bad sector and I think I heard
that tell tale loud clicking sound this morning. I think I'll replace the
drive before it dies this time but I'm wondering what the deal is. The
previous drive was a Maxtor IDE, and the new one is also a Maxtor.
Previous searches of newsgroups for HD advice seemed to indicate
unfortunately that Maxtors may be one of the least reliable drives. The
most interesting post I saw was one from an IT security guy that destroys
HDs after they're removed from computers. He said that in dismantling them
he found that Maxtors looked more cheaply constructed than some other
drives.

Anyways, I'm wondering if I'm burning out drives because of the way I use
them. In particular, I shut off my computer every night and turn it on
again in the morning, this is just an old habit. I've always heard that
turning a hard drive on is the hardest thing on a drive, but I thought that
was a issue with the old drives that has long since been engineered out.
For instance you used to have "park" drives and what not, but no more. The
other thing is I've never used any of the power saving features such as
shutting the drive down after so many minutes of inactivity etc. Maybe if
I did use a power saving feature the drive would last longer?

Any thoughts?

TIA

Paul.

 

[Ruel Smith]

I think my machine is burning through HDs too fast. I just replaced a HD
about a year ago, and already I'm finding a bad sector and I think I heard
that tell tale loud clicking sound this morning. I think I'll replace the
drive before it dies this time but I'm wondering what the deal is. The
previous drive was a Maxtor IDE, and the new one is also a Maxtor.
Previous searches of newsgroups for HD advice seemed to indicate
unfortunately that Maxtors may be one of the least reliable drives. The
most interesting post I saw was one from an IT security guy that destroys
HDs after they're removed from computers. He said that in dismantling
them he found that Maxtors looked more cheaply constructed than some other
drives.

Anyways, I'm wondering if I'm burning out drives because of the way I use
them. In particular, I shut off my computer every night and turn it on
again in the morning, this is just an old habit. I've always heard that
turning a hard drive on is the hardest thing on a drive, but I thought
that was a issue with the old drives that has long since been engineered
out.
For instance you used to have "park" drives and what not, but no more.
The other thing is I've never used any of the power saving features such
as
shutting the drive down after so many minutes of inactivity etc. Maybe if
I did use a power saving feature the drive would last longer?

Any thoughts?

People have been complaining for sometime now that Maxtors have been having
problems... Get Western Digital and you'll be much happier. I hear Seagate
is pretty good too.

 

[John Doe]

He said that in dismantling them
he found that Maxtors looked more cheaply constructed than some
other drives.

You get what you pay for.

Anyways, I'm wondering if I'm burning out drives because of the
way I use them. In particular, I shut off my computer every night
and turn it on again in the morning, this is just an old habit.
I've always heard that turning a hard drive on is the hardest
thing on a drive,

I think that's true, but not a problem when turned off only once per
day. Besides electricity usage, the only problem I have with leaving
the computer on 24/7 is the possibility of fan failure that could
destroy one or more of my components.

Good luck.

 

[johns]

Maxtor tech support just laughs about it. So OK. Make sure
if you buy a Maxtor that you only buy the ones with 3 year
warrantees. Stick it to them. I have a HUGE box of burned
up Maxtor drives less than 2 years old ( my job ). I notice
that I have not lost any of the 3 year warrantee Maxtors. I
opened up several of the drives that failed, and every one
of them shows dark brown streaks around the disk. Looks
like the heads hit the disk, and melted or something.

johns

 

[Pdigmking]

Maxtor tech support just laughs about it. So OK. Make sure
if you buy a Maxtor that you only buy the ones with 3 year
warrantees. Stick it to them. I have a HUGE box of burned
up Maxtor drives less than 2 years old ( my job ). I notice
that I have not lost any of the 3 year warrantee Maxtors. I
opened up several of the drives that failed, and every one
of them shows dark brown streaks around the disk. Looks
like the heads hit the disk, and melted or something.

johns

Anyone have any thoughts about Samsung HD's? They have them at a local
Micro Center here. They are less expensive according to the store because
they aren't packaged very pretty and they don't come with any software
drivers, cables, or data transfer software. The idea is that people who
build computers or replace parts already have that stuff or can figure it
out.

Paul.

 

[Al Dykes]

Anyone have any thoughts about Samsung HD's? They have them at a local
Micro Center here. They are less expensive according to the store because
they aren't packaged very pretty and they don't come with any software
drivers, cables, or data transfer software. The idea is that people who

you can buy *any* main brand disk in a plain package with extra bits
at reduced cost. It's refereed to as OEM for arcane reasons.

IMO I buy disks on price and performace. the manufacturer reports
reliability in MTBF numbers but these are irrelevant to a person
buying a single disk because MTBF is a statistical number for the
failure rate from the manufacturer's POV over thousands of disks. Dell
probably cares.

No matter the brand, the disk *you* buy can die tomorrow and you have
to live your (computing) life with this in mind.

backup backup backup.

 

[James T. White]

you can buy *any* main brand disk in a plain package with extra bits
at reduced cost. It's refereed to as OEM for arcane reasons.

You can save a few bucks buying OEM drives, but you need to make
sure you know what you are paying for. Only the vendor knows for sure
whether that OEM drive is new or refurbished. Read the fine print and
ask to make sure.

IMO I buy disks on price and performace. the manufacturer reports
reliability in MTBF numbers but these are irrelevant to a person
buying a single disk because MTBF is a statistical number for the
failure rate from the manufacturer's POV over thousands of disks. Dell
probably cares.

I agree MTBF doesn't mean much, but the warranty does. You can buy
drives from reputable vendors with everything from a 90 day waranty
(typically refurbished drives) to a 5 year warranty. In my experience,
those with longer warranties are a better deal.

No matter the brand, the disk *you* buy can die tomorrow and you have
to live your (computing) life with this in mind.

backup backup backup.

I agree completely. Getting a warranty replacement for a failed drive
is nice, but having your data to put on it is even better.

 

[Al Dykes]

You can save a few bucks buying OEM drives, but you need to make
sure you know what you are paying for. Only the vendor knows for sure
whether that OEM drive is new or refurbished. Read the fine print and
ask to make sure.

Reputation is *everything* in the HD market and I don't think any
manufacturer is going to risk it by selling refurb as new. If the
disk is in the factory package it's new unless it has a refurb sticker
on it (which I have seen).

If that disk was sold to you as new, run don't walk, to the
*manufacturer's head office and scream that a dealer is
misrepresenting the goods. Maybe you'll get a case of news disks,

 

[James T. White]

Reputation is *everything* in the HD market and I don't think any
manufacturer is going to risk it by selling refurb as new. If the
disk is in the factory package it's new unless it has a refurb sticker
on it (which I have seen).

Manufacturer's won't , but resellers will.

 

[Pdigmking]

sure (snip)

This is all very interesting, I'm looking at new ones, not refurbished,
the only OEMs I've seen on shelves around here are the Samsungs; but does
anyone have any experience with Samsung HDs? The reviews I've found thus
far seem to be faverable. One review said that they were a little slower
but more durable. I've found several references to Maxtor and Fujitsu
HDs piling up in broken bins over the last two or three years. Seagate
HDs seem to be getting good reviews but I don't see them on the shelves
around here anymore for some reason (yes I know I can buy them online).
Western digital has got some good reviews but the this all started three
years ago when a WD broke down on me and I decided to try to Maxtor
instead.

One review of the Samsung 160gig (7200 speed, 8.9ms, ATA) said that they
use two disks instead of three which in theory makes them a little less
trouble prone.

Pau.

 

[John Doe]

This is all very interesting, I'm looking at new ones, not
refurbished, the only OEMs I've seen on shelves around here

Are you able to shop online?

Online is the place to buy computer hardware, almost without
exception for me. It's not only much cheaper, all of the data is
right there at your fingertips too.

As far as I know, around here the most popular stores are ZipZoomFly
and NewEgg. ZipZoomFly for price and 2nd day air delivery, NewEgg
for customer service. That's my understanding, others may have
different opinions on the subject.

 

[hdrdtd]

Around my area (Detroit), I can shop at the local stores and see WD, Maxtor,
Seagate, Hitachi, in retail boxes and Samsung OEM as well as all of them in
OEM form at the corner computer shop.

I've used all the brands over the years, and it seems like you can compare
good/bad stories of HD just like good/bad stories with cars.

Some people swear by Chevrolet, some people swear at them
Same with all brands of cars and HD's.

Yes there are some exceptions to the rule, some manufactures produce a bad
model once in a while Like IBM did with thier Deathstar line a few years
ago, but on the average, I've had good luck with all the brands.

Currently on my main system at home I have a WD Raptor 74gig ( I did have to
rma a WD Raptor 36gig a year or two ago), A Seagate 400gig, and a Maxtor
300gig.

One thing to note, is length of warranty. Some manufactures have reduced the
warranty down to 1-year in order to save costs. Some manufacturers have
different length warranties for different model lines. An odd thing I've
seen is (don't remember the manufacturer) the retail version of a particular
HD may have a 1-year warranty, but the OEM version of that same HD has a
3-year warranty. Go figure.

Over the years, I'd have to say that on average, I've seen about the same
failure rate with Seagate, WD, and Maxtor drives.

Another thing to consider is warranty replacements. If you buy a retail
packaged drive, you deal with the manufacturer themselves to get a
replacement.

Quite often, if you buy an OEM drive from your local corner computer shop,
you'll have to go through them for warranty issues.

 

[Ann]

This is all very interesting, I'm looking at new ones, not refurbished,
the only OEMs I've seen on shelves around here are the Samsungs; but does
anyone have any experience with Samsung HDs?

Samsung Spinpoint are known as good drives that are very quiet. If
you want a quiet computer that's the one to get. Wish I'd gone that
route with my build, will have to wait for the upgrade now.

Ann

 

[Shep©]

I think my machine is burning through HDs too fast. I just replaced a HD
about a year ago, and already I'm finding a bad sector and I think I heard
that tell tale loud clicking sound this morning. I think I'll replace the
drive before it dies this time but I'm wondering what the deal is. The
previous drive was a Maxtor IDE, and the new one is also a Maxtor.
Previous searches of newsgroups for HD advice seemed to indicate
unfortunately that Maxtors may be one of the least reliable drives. The
most interesting post I saw was one from an IT security guy that destroys
HDs after they're removed from computers. He said that in dismantling them
he found that Maxtors looked more cheaply constructed than some other
drives.

Anyways, I'm wondering if I'm burning out drives because of the way I use
them. In particular, I shut off my computer every night and turn it on
again in the morning, this is just an old habit. I've always heard that
turning a hard drive on is the hardest thing on a drive, but I thought that
was a issue with the old drives that has long since been engineered out.
For instance you used to have "park" drives and what not, but no more. The
other thing is I've never used any of the power saving features such as
shutting the drive down after so many minutes of inactivity etc. Maybe if
I did use a power saving feature the drive would last longer?

Any thoughts?

TIA

Paul.

Luck of the draw IMHO.I've never had a hard drive go bad on me from
any maker in over ten years and I switch my system on and off loads
and defrag like a religion(online gamer).

I sold one of my old early P133 systems to my next door neighbour
years ago and the 1.2 gig samsung still hasn't got any bad sectors and
must be about 8 years old

I'm running a now old IBM Deskstar 20 gig and a Maxtor 40 gig,still no
probs and they are getting a bit long-in-the-tooth and they get well
hammered with file conversions/media/games etc.

Be lucky.

 

[Bob M]

Luck of the draw IMHO.I've never had a hard drive go bad on me from
any maker in over ten years and I switch my system on and off loads
and defrag like a religion(online gamer).

I sold one of my old early P133 systems to my next door neighbour
years ago and the 1.2 gig samsung still hasn't got any bad sectors and
must be about 8 years old

I'm running a now old IBM Deskstar 20 gig and a Maxtor 40 gig,still no
probs and they are getting a bit long-in-the-tooth and they get well
hammered with file conversions/media/games etc.

Be lucky.

I know this is just my opinion but I think heat plays a major role in
the lifetime of a HD. I buy only Maxtor drives. I also place them in
full tower systems with plenty of cooling. In the last 7 years I have
purchased 6 Maxtor HD's. All of them are still in service and working
great. One is inside a Replay 2020 PVR that I've had since 1999. In the
Replay I removed the HD cover so the drive runs cooler. It's still going
strong. I also keep my computers on 24/7. I know you can get good and
bad in all brands but again I think heat is the biggest killer of Hd's.
Just buy the brand that will best serve you and keep it cool.

Bob

 

[David Maynard]

I know this is just my opinion but I think heat plays a major role in
the lifetime of a HD.

You need not consider it simply an opinion as there is a direct correlation
between temperature and hard drive reliability.

See this analysis on hard drive reliability by seagate.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/storagereliability/

Operation at 40C vs 25C (rated temp) cuts the MTBF in half.

Note that MTBF is the *first year* MTBF, not 'lifetime'.

Also note that MTBF is normalized to 2400 POH per year (about 6.5 hours per
day) and is cut to just above half for 24/7 (8760) POH.