HaHa lets celebrate Vista sales are well below expectations!! MSFT has failed!!

[Mike Brannigan]

Mike Brannigan,

I rushed out and bought two copies of Vista to upgrade my machines. I
didn't understand how unlike previous upgrades I have used (even
Win95) this does not have perfect backward compatibility.

Because as software and architectures changes to enhance performance
functionality, stability and security you have to eventual take steps
forward that will prevent backward compatibility. Just as SP2 for XP broke
lots of applications and DEP prevents other apps from running these are
actually steps forward and the compatibility losses until the vendor does
the required work to make their app work are just acceptable causalities of
the move forward. The vendors are given plenty of time to get involved in
the various programs that give then early access to new platforms so that
they can prepare their applications for the new platforms and some do a much
better job then other.

Based on my
experience I think it would be irresponsible to advise someone normal
to upgrade a laptop for example (anyway others in press are saying
this as well).

But there are other press pundits and site seeing how good a move to Vista
is. With any new product there will be teething troubles especially one as
complex as a general purpose operating system. However our experience
differ in that all of my machines and all of my family are now on Vista
without issue and are enjoying the new features and experience.

I am an excel, c# and c++ coder (used for writing
financial models) so I am much more experienced than your average user
but don't claim to be a propeller head.

I was also trying to make a point that Vista looks to me like an
attempt to make Windows look friendly at the expense of usability.

There were millions of dollars spent in usability studies and instrumented
version of XP and Vista to identify how none propeller head users actually
work and to find ways to improve that - this has directly lead to he
innovations you se throughout Vista.

I
personally feel like my long loved WinXP is being dummied down with in
Apple Mac style with a silly Aero interface that takes up more screen
space, no default menu bar in IE7, the PhotoViewer make a video
button, the web folders etc. Next thing MSFT will be trying to delete
the tree in Windows Explorer because it's too complicated Apple style.

Actually there should be no need for a user to be exposed to a tree
structure of folders - this is an archaic hang over from DOS and other
operating systems and totally non intuitive to normal user who are not and
do not want to understand about C: drives and folder hierarchies. They want
to work with documents they can arrange and search for in many ways - hence
the changes in the Vista UI and some additional forth coming technologies.
Long term there would be no need for anyone other then someone doing
maintenance or trouble shooting to have any contact with any disk based
structure such as that exposed as the tree.
Remember you are only familiar with this as you have been in this for some
time - think about a child or a new PC user and the training they receive -
why even have to discuss on disk structures etc - rather then, there are
your documents and you can organized them easily like this our that or build
your own collections based on things that you understand or are interested
in etc

Ever since WinAmp media skins, followed by the horribly complicated
but fun looking WindowsMedia player interface, things have been doing
downhill. Office 2007 ribbon is interesting debate but I think comes
out in same direction. I don't want to buy a shareware explorer, a
shareware file viewer, switch to Open Office etc. I will stay with the
old versions I guess.

Your choice but unfortunately those that do not evolve or move on eventually
get left behind.

I was also thinking that we are seeing half baked ideas coming out. I
read even Microsoft admit the IE7 interface is a mess. This is not the
focused disciplined company we knew once. Maybe Microsoft is slipping...
that's why I sold my shares.

It's nice for you Microsoft guys to respond in this forum, but I can't
get my point across and I don't think you are being honest, so it's
been a waste. I googled you and see you are a talented person working
for Microsoft, but maybe you are unable to be honest in reply.

I feel my answers have been entirely honest about Windows Vista - maybe you
just need to give a built more time and try and unlearn a few things from
the past and look more to who things can and should be I working with IT
systems in the future.

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

Alias

Linux is as bad as anything for flaws, especially in the hands of home
users.. read again..

Vista most certainly did install in 20 minutes for me..

User friendly is a subjective..

Some Linux Distros are not as free as they were, and will take their own
anti-piracy measures in the future.. maybe not tomorrow though..

Most updates come through programs that are already running in the
background, and I see no problem in the way that other programs deal with
their own update issues..

The very worst reason to use any OS is because it looks cooler..

Suse Linux is way more advanced than Ubuntu, and was before any hook up
between Novell and Microsoft..

What is an insult to a US citizen is not necessarily an insult to a national
of another country.. I am British by birth and, while not wholly impressed
by my home country, make no apologies at this point..

LOL! I have and you're wrong.


A lie.

Compared to Windows, much more user friendly.

NO, it won't. You, of course, have no proof of this and obviously know
nothing about Open Source.


Update your AV. Update Java. Update your malware apps. Update Adobe
Reader. Update this and update that. All have to be done individually and
almost none of them will tell you without opening the program that you
need an update.


If you're going to use a computer, it is nice to have a pleasant thing to
look at.


Um, Novell and MS are in bed together now. How come I'm not surprised that
you're pushing SUSE?


You have to do it for both.

And you claim you don't insult anyone ,..

Alias

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[william.hooper]

Thanks... Well my dream is Vista fails as quickly and MSFT go back to
writing software for professionals. I read a new review on Forbes
Businesses News at this link:

http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2007/0226/050.html

I guess Vista is taking a pounding in the press now, there are several
like this.

The pain for me is Vista is getting hurt for compatibility & hardware
issues but the UI philosophy is what is depressing me and few are
touching on that. Lets dare to say we don't want a cuddly Media Centre
and prefer sensible and useable menus with a wealth of advanced
options. However, it still comes back to my original point that maybe
some focus has been lost on the management side and a vista failure
would be a huge wake up call. On a simple business call it's also the
professional market MSFT should focus on and which is threatened by
Linux. The cute but useless Apple market is much less of a threat.

 

[Adam Albright]

hey i notice the second most popular thread here today is someone
looking for a meda center replacement. that's another flagship vista
feature for the home user long with the photo gallery I hate. I tried
media center myself but just saw a blue screen take over then entire
screen with two icons in the middle and couldn't face going on. it
reminds me of those horrible window maximizing web sites with flash
films on that were in fasion for about 10 minutes.

I think there are others out there fed up with these 'cute' but
useless user interfaces.

a few years ago it would have been unthinkable for microsoft to be
releasing software thats fails so quickly...

Microsoft has never been known for writing "good" compact code for its
software, Vista which supposedly is rumored to be in excess of 50
million lines of code is mute testimony to bloatware.

Rather Microsoft and Bill Gates have been envied by their clever
marketing to get the unwashed masses ove the years to keep buying one
buggy version of Windows after another. Lately, that too seems to be
failing. Maybe the public is finally starting to wise up.

The irony is Mac commericals are by far more entertaining to watch,
especailly the series where there's a somewhat plumb Billy G
look-alike. As funny as they are and the ring of truth they have they
haven't been able to elevate Mac sales, in fact most reports suggest
they're slumping.

The computer biz is a funny industry, that's for sure.

Where else are you forced to give up your hard earned cash to only get
a "license" to use a product with a whole laundry list of
restrictions, that often doesn't work as advertisied, the retailer
refuses to take back if the package is opened, and the producer says
it isn't his fault it does do what it claims and gets away with
blaming third parties?

 

[Alias]

Alias

Linux is as bad as anything for flaws, especially in the hands of home
users.. read again..

Vista most certainly did install in 20 minutes for me..
Sure.


User friendly is a subjective..

Well, it is for me.

Some Linux Distros are not as free as they were, and will take their own
anti-piracy measures in the future.. maybe not tomorrow though..

SUSE, now in MS' hands maybe but the others are bound by the Open Source
constitution that prohibits selling Linux.

Most updates come through programs that are already running in the
background, and I see no problem in the way that other programs deal
with their own update issues..

Adobe Reader? No. Spybot? No. AdAware? No. Spywareblaster? No. Windows
Office? No.

The very worst reason to use any OS is because it looks cooler..

It's just one of many.

Suse Linux is way more advanced than Ubuntu, and was before any hook up
between Novell and Microsoft..

I think it looks like shite.

What is an insult to a US citizen is not necessarily an insult to a
national of another country.. I am British by birth and, while not
wholly impressed by my home country, make no apologies at this point..

When you call me a troll, that's an insult, regardless of what
nationality you are or I am and you mean it to be an insult and
constantly use it when you're at a loss for words.

Alias

 

[william.hooper]

Ah there is lots of Microsoft bashing but in their day they were
amazing. On the first release they trumped market leader Lotus 123 on
every feature and introduced the first proper calc tree. Within a
couple of years they had the entire market - amazing. People claim it
was their inside knowledge of the OS, but Apple couldn't write a
WordProcess for their own OS. In fact Word took a 95%+ market share on
the Mac quicker than on Windows. Microsoft's software is a bit buggy
but that's GUIs for you (plus legacy support). Since we switched to
GUIs from DOS all software is buggy. Better to move forward and crash
a little than stay still. In their heyday Microsoft were the greatest
on the planet. Its heart wrenching for me to watch them stumble - and
worse there is no one to step into the breach. Have you used Open
Office Spreadsheet. For a power user it's a joke with memory in use
spiking dozens of times higher and no C++ XLL interface etc etc. Have
you used Lotus Notes? If Microsoft go down the toilet with their cute
but useless mass market interfaces my life is ruined. And all becuase
Bill wanted to help Aids research. Seriously couldn't he give the
money to some doctors and get back to work....

 

[Mellowed]

Paul, what is your purpose in posting to a Vista group?

 

[mikeyhsd]

much more so then your constant whining about your problems what you created.
one would thin that an EXPERIENCED used would NEVER update a critical system without testing it first/.

(e-mail address removed)@sport.rr.com

Yes, I missed that one.. thanks for the heads up.. as usual you are doing a
sterling job.. if only you would commit your time to doing something
useful..

And you are still a troll..

What exactly do you think you bring to this newsgroup in the way of
any benefit? Endlessly tooting your own horn implying how clever you
are only further inflates you're already bloated ego. Ever actually
HELPED anyone yet? I must have missed it.

 

[Zim Babwe]

After dealing with Vista, I thought I would try Ubuntu on another machine.
It installed in 20 minutes, I was able to attach to my printer on the XP
box, no problem, Open Office installed and printed - No problem. But I went
to a web site to listen to some tunes and couldn't play wma. A message
stating that some codec was missing. I posted a couple of messages on the
community board at Ubuntu and nobody could help me. Three days later,
still no tunes.

Last week was the first time I tried Linux and it is frustrating. I'm sure
I will eventually get the right help soon.

 

[NoStop]

Inline..



Not strictly true.. read the IT press..

You must be reading a different IT press than the rest of the world. Maybe
you only read the MickeyMouse Fanboy Newsletters?

Viruses and malware for Windoze ... 200,000 + in the wild
Virues and malware for Linux ... none in the wild.

Vista installed for me in 20 minutes..

Ubuntu installs easily in that time, but the difference is that it not only
installs the operating system but tons of useful software at the same time.
No comparision.

Only when you get used to it, as with any OS

True. So do yourself a favour and get used to a real operating system,
rather than the toy operating system you keep trying to defend.

It will come..

It will come? Come from where? Are you really that clueless about open
software and GPL?

One doesn't have to go everywhere with Windows except in the initial
stages maybe..

Is this part of the 20 minute installation you made mention to earlier?

That's a hell of a reason to change if ever I saw one.. lol.. too funny

He's obviously jesting. But really, Ubuntu+Beryl is certainly far cooler
than Vista, and really the eye-candy is the only thing that's going to
drive Vista sales other than pre-installs.

If Ubuntu was as capable as some Linux Distros (example Suse Linux being
the rough equivalanet of XP Pro), one would indeed need to upgrade
hardware.. and on this point, there has not been an OS released by anybody
that has not needed some hardware upgrading over a previous release..

Sadly, you just don't get it. Obviously you have no experience with
GNU/Linux.

I have Vista and XP Pro on mine, and do roughly the same maintenance as
you re XP Pro..

Which is far too much wasted unproductive time.

Expect by all means.. consider it said..



Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User

Puhleeze! Windoze and "Shell" shouldn't be in the same sentence.

http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Cheers.

 

[NoStop]

After dealing with Vista, I thought I would try Ubuntu on another machine.
It installed in 20 minutes, I was able to attach to my printer on the XP
box, no problem, Open Office installed and printed - No problem. But I
went
to a web site to listen to some tunes and couldn't play wma. A message
stating that some codec was missing. I posted a couple of messages on the
community board at Ubuntu and nobody could help me. Three days later,
still no tunes.

Last week was the first time I tried Linux and it is frustrating. I'm
sure I will eventually get the right help soon.

Sure, here's all the help you need to be able to play with proprietary,
closed sourced audio and video codecs ...

http://www.getautomatix.com/

Have fun.

Cheers.

 

[NoStop]

Alias

Linux is as bad as anything for flaws, especially in the hands of home
users.. read again..

Man, I can't believe how clueless you are about GNU/Linux. Why don't you
just stop, when it is so obvious that you know nothing about this operating
system?

Vista most certainly did install in 20 minutes for me..

User friendly is a subjective..

Is the Pope Catholic? Any other strings of wisdome to present?

Some Linux Distros are not as free as they were, and will take their own
anti-piracy measures in the future.. maybe not tomorrow though..

Again, you really don't know what you're talking about. You're speculating,
but your speculations are incorrect. Linux distros are and always will be
as free as they were. Distributors of Linux have no other choice. Read up
on the GPL to learn why.

Most updates come through programs that are already running in the
background, and I see no problem in the way that other programs deal with
their own update issues..

You wouldn't because you know no better.

The very worst reason to use any OS is because it looks cooler..

Suse Linux is way more advanced than Ubuntu, and was before any hook up
between Novell and Microsoft..

How would you know? How is Suse more advanced than Ubuntu? Because
MickeyMouse and Novell struck a "deal"? Again, you are showing how clueless
you are. Ubuntu remains the number one most popular Linux distro.

What is an insult to a US citizen is not necessarily an insult to a
national of another country.. I am British by birth and, while not wholly
impressed by my home country, make no apologies at this point..

You don't have to apologize for your nationality, but you certainly can
start to apologize when it comes to the FUD you spread and the stupidity
you show about an operating system you obviously know nothing about.

Cheers.

 

[NoStop]

SUSE, now in MS' hands maybe but the others are bound by the Open Source
constitution that prohibits selling Linux.

As is Novell and Suse! Novell is governed by the GPL in terms of its ability
to distribute GNU/Linux. If Novell keeps up with the bullshit, it'll find
it'll only be able to distribute Windoze.

Cheers.

 

[n00k]

Companies fail when they fail to adapt to change. We fail to adapt to
change when our thinking becomes blinkered. Our thinking becomes
blinkered when we are stubborn and emotional. Maybe Microsoft has
turned itself internally into almost a religion, a dynamic emphasised
by the hatred of the anti Microsoft crowd. Conventional religion is
the biggest barrier to free thinking. This might explain how a poor
chap like Mike is misunderstanding so much. Well either that or he is
in a hurry.

What about crApple? They are BY FAR the worst at adapting to change. It
took them this long to finally get off their high horse and use someone
other than Motorola for their chips. You say the Vista has "dreadful
compatibility problems with many apps", but you only mention 3 or 4.
Whenever a new OS comes out, and I'm getting tired of saying this, WILL
HAVE COMPATIBILITY ISSUES!!!!! I must have installed and uninstalled XP
5-10 times because it gave me so much trouble! But up until Vista I've
had XP installed and have loved it. I know there will be some bumps, but
thats par for the course with having a new OS installed. OSX was PURE
HELL when it first came out! The only reason I don't use Linux is
because I use the Adobe Creative Suite 2 and that, as far as I know,
doesn't run on Linux. I know, a graphics guy that hates Mac, I'm like a
zebra with polka dots. And so far all apps in the creative suite run
like a friggin champ! WAY faster than it ever did on XP. I know all user
experiences are different, I am just lucky enough to be having a very
good one.

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

Mike

Multi-word or single word answers make no difference to these people.. they
are determined to come here and spread as much malice against MS as they
can.. they must be getting backhanders for it..

A number of the apps above are actually driver issues which I addressed in
my response that you have chosen to edit here.
Live Messenger 8.1 works perfectly well on Vista.
Again you failed to do your research to ensure your hardware was
compatibly, and if there were updated Vista compliant versions of
applications.
iTunes is an acknowledged issue by Apple - they are working on getting
their software compatible - shame given the massive amount of time that
they have had access to code to allow them to develop this - but that is
their choice.



These are not false positives - again you have not fully understood the
use of UAC and in many cases you do not see these warnings during day to
day use - but only when you try and perform an admin level action or one
that does pose a risk to your system.


Some UI changes have changed the way some application top "boarder" looks.
Windows explorer being an example.
So many other apps there may be a couple of extra pixel to the frame width
to as you put it show off the glass effect - but I do not see this as an
issue. Maybe you should embrace the larger monitors that more users are
using today and you would be less concerned by a pixel here or there.


You did not read what I wrote - I was not passing comment on the XP theme
missing but actually about your point about the IE menu bar.


As I said associate it with another application - go buy one or get some
shareware, You have a myriad of choices in viewers available to you.


Again your cutting of my comment is hiding the fact I clearly explained
what those BUTTON did when in icon view mode and that you had clearly not
made an effort to use the UI more and understand the functionality.


'smart people like you' - this comment above even with the smiley where
you are obviously trying to deprecate your own comment, only goes to prove
your lack of "smarts" when you look at a bigger world picture.


I believe I carefully addressed each of your "issues" and your last
comment was a petty snipe that again your edit of the actual thread is
trying to hide.
I can't really comment on your last 2 sentences above as they do not
actually make grammatical sense. I assume you work in finance so after
careful analysis of your Microsoft stock using your "smarts" and skill in
your chosen field you decided to sell. Well there are other analysts who
would disagree, but your business is your own.

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[ace_away]

Tried installing Ubuntu on my system last night... no luck... it would
change the display to some whacky screen resolution and wouldn't load.

Suse did install.

 

[Nina DiBoy]

The two factors that really tarnish the image of Linux is that most who
extol its virtues in these newsgroups have little or no experience with
it, and are only using it because they are freeloaders who do not like
to pay for anything, MS or otherwise, if they can help it..

I have worked on and with Linux installed on PC servers, and know that
it is a very effective server solution.. I have never denied that Linux
has a place in the computing world.. many of the MVPs who do maintenance
have a Knoppix CD or similar which they use to test and overcome problems..

You guys are doing Linux no favors at all.. you quote from others and
have virtually no thoughts of your own, and like John, seem to fall into
the use of profanity very quickly.. you should stand back and take a
good look at what you are doing.. it is not pretty..

Says an MVP who hurls insults at other posters in this group. You show
yourself for the hypocrite you are Mike.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"Stupid ****."

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot

 

[Nina DiBoy]

Jason

The reason that these Linux trolls are in here is because the Linux
community doesn't want them.. lol.. they are collectively quite the
worst adverts for Linux that one could possibly imagine, and I feel
sorry for the Linux community which truly does not deserve them.. the
same applies to Mac trolls..

--

Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

The same applies to MVP trolls like you.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"Stupid ****."

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot

 

[Guest]

I am not a Linux user, and I certainly do not mind paying for 'technicaly'
descent software, but one thing I resent most of all is being 'ROBBED' by
Microsoft and companies of a similar 'ilk' because there is no 'real'
competition out there! Plus you 'knuckle-heads' wonder why 'piracy'
rules....well check out your pricing structures, and while your at it; how
about some 'REAL SUPPORT' for Microsoft products instead of the limited
'lame-Duck' help thats on offer?

Now, if anyone is interested: my 'Vista Ultimate' so-called 'Media Center'
module will not start....well dies within seconds, without even showing it's
ugly face! Please do not tell me to check the 'hardware', I am a 'Geek' in
endless learning/training....so if one of you MVP's can give significant help
(not quick-fixes), that would be great!

BTW I am still using 'XP' as I find it a lot more stable at
present....here's hoping! I have 'Vista' installed on a seperate
Disk/partition...and yes I installed it by using a single target drive only,
so Vista's notorious 'Boot manager' could not get 'SMOOCHY' with everything
else.

regards..Obadiah