Greedy MP's with snout in trough again

floppybootstomp

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Nivrip, you'll make yourself so angry you will make yourself ill.

It's happening and there's very little you or I can do about, as disagreeable as things are.

And to repeat - no, I couldn't care less about people claiming benefits. It's all small change in the greater scheme of things, if anger needs venting it needs venting to whoever's driving this nation of ours, wasting billions every single day.

That's what's wrong, not a bunch of people claiming benefits, some scrounging, undoubtedly, some not.

Now then, what would happen if the State stopped paying benefits or lowered them? Shrug off the tunnel vision and think about it. It doesn't take a genius to figure out there'd be more crime.

More crime would result in a lot of crime victims, a need for more police officers, more magistrates and more magistrates courts and all the attendant admin that goes with those courts and lots more prison space and prison staff.

Which I dare say would cost more than the total benefits bill.

And we'd all likely be living in a bigger climate of fear than we are now.

And you'd see a sharp increase in people selling the Big Issue.

And there'd be more sick people, putting a strain on the already over-burdened NHS.

So, I look on benefits as a kind of safety valve, the Goverment probably realises that it's cheaper to pay benefits than all the other business.

And those really in charge know what they're doing. By keeping the public's anger focused on benefit 'scroungers' they happily divert the average person's attention away from the bigger issues.

As for benefits being originally designed as a temporary safety net - times change, I'm sure if the Goverment could get away with saving some money they would, but they probably realise what a pressure cooker they're sitting on and consider the cost to keep it capped relatively small.

As always, step back and see the bigger picture. Unless, of course, it gives a person pleasure to get angry and vent, in which case go ahead, but that's not my thing, I will not join the herd.
 

nivrip

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floppybootstomp said:
Nivrip, you'll make yourself so angry you will make yourself ill.

No, not at all. I am, I think, simply stating what the vast majority of people in this country think.

So you think it's OK that several hundred thousand idle layabouts should live a life of relative comfort and should not have to raise a finger to help themselves? And be funded by the people who do the real hard work? So why don't we all do it? What would happen then?


Now then, what would happen if the State stopped paying benefits or lowered them?

I'm convinced that a large number would then start to work - because they would have to.


Sorry, Flops but I cannot agree with you. You say it is a small thing (I don't think it is small) but it is attitudes like this that have led to the gradual demise of this country. It is only by turning round small things that we can then begin to turn around larger things.


Rant......rant.......:D
 

floppybootstomp

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nivrip said:
No, not at all. I am, I think, simply stating what the vast majority of people in this country think.

And therein lies the problem. Mob mentality, without looking deeper.

I'm sure some people get off on feeling angry, I really am.

nivrip said:
So you think it's OK that several hundred thousand idle layabouts should live a life of relative comfort and should not have to raise a finger to help themselves? And be funded by the people who do the real hard work? So why don't we all do it? What would happen then?

There'll be no convincing you eh? You seem dyed in the wool over this issue.

'Several hundred thousand idle layabouts'

'Life of comfort'

Do you really believe everybody claiming job seeker's benefit, income support, whatever, is an idle layabout? Oh boy, no hope for some people.

As an aside, what's the population of this fair isle of ours? I wonder what percentage are 'Idle layabouts'?

Most people want to work - fact. But in case it's escaped your attention there's a recession on and lots of people have found themselves without a job right now. There's all those Woolworths workers for instance.

And who, really, is to blame? Goverment financial policy and a disastrous handling of our economy. The rot may have started in the USA but it was compounded further in the UK.

For your information a great deal of those idle layabouts hate claiming benefits, they want to work.

Your condemnation of them all is not very nice at all.

You ask what would happen if we were all to stop work and claim benefit?

It will never happen of course, that's the good side of human nature you see, but if it did the economy would collapse and we'd be reduced to a third world country status I suppose. But that's mere hypothesis and in my view rather foolish to even consider.

I still note the use of cliches - 'funded by the people who do the real hard work'. Not everybody who works necessarily works hard, I've seem some right lazy buggers in my time. I've paid into the welfare system now for the better part of 41 years and I still couldn't care less if some idle layabout is pocketing my contribution, good luck to them, lol, that's our system.

And if people don't like the system then they should either leave this country or use their vote (for all the good that will do).


nivrip said:
I'm convinced that a large number would then start to work - because they would have to.

Or they could take up burglary, mugging, car theft, drug pushing, pimping, a whole host of alternative careers awaits them.

nivrip said:
Sorry, Flops but I cannot agree with you. You say it is a small thing (I don't think it is small) but it is attitudes like this that have led to the gradual demise of this country. It is only by turning round small things that we can then begin to turn around larger things.


Rant......rant.......:D

Gradual demise of this country?

Think 1950's, polio, TB, smog, slave labour, no NHS, outside toilets, weekly wash in the copper, smaller life expectancy and great areas of wasteland and ugly hastily rebuilt council estates.

Lots of things have changed for the better but some folk of a certain age (usually the same age as me, oddly enough) cannot see this because they're locked in a (false) image of rosiness from their youth.

I'l agree many things have got worse, my biggest beef, FWIW, is lack of discipline in schools. But overall it's better now than it was 50 or 60 years ago.

No need to be sorry, differing views makes things interesting.

I'd disagree about small things/big things though.

I may even venture the view that take care of the big things first and the smaller things would very likely fall into line by themselves.

But I don't really know that that, pure conjecture on my part.
 

crazylegs

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This is a great thread and I am enjoying reading the views of people of politicians and the state of the countryon this forum..

I'll maybe add my two'penneth worth as well at some point...Then again maybe I won't..:D
 

muckshifter

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crazylegs said:
This is a great thread and I am enjoying reading the views of people of politicians and the state of the country on this forum..

I'll maybe add my two'penneth worth as well at some point...Then again maybe I won't..:D
You may not get the chance ...

This is "politics" ... I'm about to close this thread ... this forum don't do politics.

:wave:

differing views makes things interesting
Let's cease the rants then folks.

We agree to disagree.

:)
 

muckshifter

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nivrip said:
Just a bit of light hearted banter, Mucks.
nod.gif
I see the "banter" ... just as long as we don't end up in a slanging match. :wave:

The thread is still open. ;)
 

floppybootstomp

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muckshifter said:
I see the "banter" ... just as long as we don't end up in a slanging match. :wave:

The thread is still open. ;)

Stop worrying Mr Shifter, tis good natured debate, hopefully, and if you shut the thread.....
 

muckshifter

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I only worry over spilt milk ... I even got a 'pay rise' today. :wave:



:user:
 

nivrip

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Is it your turn or mine, Flops?

Awwh, I've lost the thread of this now. LOL ;)

I really thought that there would be more input from others.
 
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nivrip said:
Is it your turn or mine, Flops?

Awwh, I've lost the thread of this now. LOL ;)

Nope its Mucks turn to get em in, after all he got a pay rise today...Lucky so and so....:p
 

Abarbarian

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nivrip said:
They may be "small fry" but they are our representatives and I expect them to set an example. People seeing them getting away with our (yours and mine) taxes are hardly likely to become paragons of virtue themselves. Leading by example, IMO, is very important - think of parents, hopefully, guiding their kids by doing the same.






IMO, anyone who will not take the offer of a job should have their benefits reduced, with a view to having them stopped eventually. Even if there are no jobs then some sort of community activity should be compulsory.

NO-ONE (other than the genuine severely disabled) should get INDEFINITE state handouts and not put back something, however small.



Rant.....rant......

Well said that man.

:thumb:
 

floppybootstomp

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nivrip said:
Is it your turn or mine, Flops?

Awwh, I've lost the thread of this now. LOL ;)

I really thought that there would be more input from others.

Not sure mate.

I will say this much though.

It's your round :D

Pint of draught Guinness for me or failing that more African wildlife pix will do ;)
 

nivrip

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floppybootstomp said:
It's your round :D

Pint of draught Guinness for me or failing that more African wildlife pix will do ;)

I'd be happy to provide both. :wave:
 

floppybootstomp

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That's an American site headed by a certain Colonel Edward Whitehead (Retired), Proprietor.

I wouldn't trust someone thus described as far as I could throw them :lol:

They're only saying what I already know and they also are as guilty as the Goverments they criticise as they want to charge you $$$$$'s for information.

It's true, as they state, that around 80% of our earnings will find it's way back to Goverment coffers. Fortunately it's a deal that most of us seem happy with and mostly, as societies go, it works.

But as I have stated previously, there's not much point in getting angry with either the bigger powers that be or those claiming benefit as there's extremely little any of us can do about it within the law as it stands.

I'd rather tolerate Big Brother and 'Scroungers' than live in a cave in Northern Pakistan ;)
 

Abarbarian

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8039977.stm

The Telegraph says it will publish MPs' claims from other parties within days.

But some ministers have expressed anger that details had been leaked, before they were due to be published in July, and have claimed that it was a politically motivated story by a Conservative-supporting newspaper.





The Telegraph revelations include Communities Secretary Hazel Blears claiming three different properties within a year were her "second home" - the first her Salford constituency, the second two in London. MPs can claim up to £24,000 a year towards the costs of their second home.

Lord Mandelson said the Daily Telegraph report created "the perception of wrongdoing" about his claims for his constituency home - lodged after he said he would be standing down as an MP.

He reportedly went on to sell the property for a £136,000 profit but denied he had claimed to improve the house - he said the claims were to repair a roof which was letting in water.

The Commons authorities fought and lost a High Court battle last year to prevent their publication under the Freedom of Information Act.

David Cameron says people are 'rightly angry' about MPs expenses

Angry that's not quite how the public view this shameful state of affairs I'm sure. :mad:
 

nivrip

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Abarbarian said:
Angry that's not quite how the public view this shameful state of affairs I'm sure.

Dead right AB. They just don't get it.
 

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