Get A Decent Video Card for Vista

[Guest]

Since when was eye candy bad? It is nice to have candy tossed at you even
once in a while. Thats why I go to the Mardi Gras parades every year.

Sometimes people try to say fancy things such as Aero glass are bad things.
I don't know about you, but I don't mind my computer looking fancy. However,
I would like more work put in fixing security issues than how pretty they can
make it look.

I know you can make Windows XP look just like Windows Vista with a few 3rd
party programs. That is what I did before Vista was released to the public.
However, I only saw transparency programs like glass2k that made the whole
window transparent which wasn't any good.

Window Blinds uses too much processor time, so I just use the uxtheme
patcher that modifies the uxtheme.dll file to allow XP to use themes that are
not digitally signed by Microsoft. The Vista Transformation Pack 4.0 uses
this approach. All is good, except you don't get the same feeling using XP
as you do with Vista. That, and I had to explain to a few people that asked
that it wasn't really Vista but me just trying to make it look like Vista.

Oh well, it happens. It's all good.

BTW, Aero works fine for me with the ATI Radeon Mobility x300 w/ 64mb of
video memory that came with my computer over a year ago. I could upgrade to
the x300 w/ 128mb, but I don't think it is worth the $150 extra it would
cost. Silly laptop video cards.
--
Robert Firth
http://www.winvistainfo.org

I don't think it's bad in the sense of evil, but unfortunately it has been a
publicity vehicle and it masks the fact that in Vista "the emperor has no
clothes."

CH

I don't think aero glass is that bad...kind of cool. sure, eye candy, but
it
works fine for a cheap <$50 price for graphics card.

What MSFT knows: The PT Barnumization of Vista. A Sucker is born every
minute.

We couldn't make the operating system work--Balmer ought to elaborate on
the
big mistake he claims was made that cost a ton of features in Vista.

You can run Vista on a 32MB video card just fine. I've done it. You need
Aero Glass like you need a hole through your frontal lobe with a hollow
point bullet.

3rd party has had effects that look exactly like Aero Glass, Flip 3D and
every spinoff that will be related to RTM when Sinofsky boxes crap with
far
superior 3D looks for years.

Aero Glass is MSFT appealing to the breed of civilization who has to show
up
in the neighborhood with an SUV and a little polo on an ordinary golf
shirt
for status.

I'm surprised the Windows Start Button isn't a Hummer II. The commercial
with the consummately stupid mommy who is shoved aside at the sliding
board
and solves her problem by going out and getting a Hummer is the same
narcissistic personality that MSFT appeals to with Aero Frigging Glass.
It's worthless. "No it's [Valley Girl lilt] like Way Kuelllll" "Mommy
go
get me some Aero Glass. Gotta have it."

What the hell function does Aero Glass give you ? If that's MSFT's idea
of
good looks, they need a massive retinal and optic lobe transplant.

They should be focusing on why Win RE doesn't work most of the time and
why
SFC switches don't work in every single Branch of RC1 including what the
shipped to TAP August 2.

You can get great sound on a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Vintage 2000 sound
card
if you know driver tricks in Vista.

No wonder the NYTimes did a front page story on the shrink who has made
millions advising companies on how to design SUVs for the reptilian
primitive brain.

It's means marketing to the brain of Fred Flintstone and Barney is alive
and well.

CH




don't need the best video card...i'm on a PCI Geforce FX 5200 w/256
VRAM.
Cost me less than 50 bucks. my mobo doesn't even have an AGP or PCI-E
slot.
aero glass works fine for me. flip 3D, flip, live taskbar thumbnails
all
perfect. Have widescreen 1440 x 900 display too. I think the amount
of
RAM
is more important.

:

Ah... late at night, sitting on the front porch, surprised I'm getting
Wi-Fi
signal here, but, hey, it's all good.

This won't come as any surprise to the experienced users in this
group,
but
thought I'd post anyway...

When it comes time to upgrade your PC to run Vista, or if you're
buying a
new box for whatever reason...

Don't skimp on the video card. Get the best video card you can afford.
It
is
the main factor in how your PC will present Vista's UI to you. And I'm
not
talking just about gaming...

If you can't afford a decent video card... then give up thoughts of
running
Aero Glass. Not a great loss, to be sure... and... I created a matrix
tonight of the 3 boxes on which I'm running Vista.

Too detailed to post the whole thing here, and I believe they
discourage,
if
not completely forbid, the posting of attachements in a non-binary NG,
so
I'll summarize.

The box I'm on now has a duo core 1.83GHz P4. Got the highest
processor
rating from Windows Experience of the 3 boxes (the other two being a
P4
HT
3GHz box and the third being a P4 3.8GHz box). Also got the lowest
video
rating because I haven't found video drivers that will install for
Vista.
Point in fact: it "appears" to be the slowest box because of the lack
of
Vista video drivers. Even though it is not running Aero Glass.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is: don't expect your P3
with
32MB
video RAM to run Vista acceptably. As all of the experienced users
know...
take MS's recommended minimum, crank it up 2x's and you'll have the
real
world minimum for every new MS OS. Crank it up 4x's and you may even
be
happy. Or you could always stick with XP or W2K or Win98 or Win95 or
<insert
distro here> Linux.

Apologies to all for the late night screed...

Lang

 

[Chad Harris]

"BTW, Aero works fine for me with the ATI Radeon Mobility x300 w/ 64mb of
video memory that came with my computer over a year ago. I could upgrade to
the x300 w/ 128mb, but I don't think it is worth the $150 extra it would
cost. Silly laptop video cards."

"Vista works fine on a 866mhz computer with only 383mb of memory (Dell
Dimension 4100). The only problem it has was Vista didn't know how to turn
it
off so the screen when black but the computer stayed on for a while."


This is good info, Robert. I didn't know you could make Aero's features
work with a 64 MB card. It's always useful to know how older PCs can run a
new OS, and I think a lot of people might be surprised the Dimension could
run it so well.

I should have been more careful to make clear there is nothing wrong with
eye candy, good looks, and the best possible UI presented, but that it seems
to be so hyped and is probably not near the most compelling reason to have a
certain level graphics card that will run Aero Glass.

The loose analogies weren't meant to give the wrong impression, but it seems
that Aero Glass is being hyped as a * major sales point (anyone of course
can showcase whatever they want to sell).

CH

Since when was eye candy bad? It is nice to have candy tossed at you even
once in a while. Thats why I go to the Mardi Gras parades every year.

Sometimes people try to say fancy things such as Aero glass are bad
things.
I don't know about you, but I don't mind my computer looking fancy.
However,
I would like more work put in fixing security issues than how pretty they
can
make it look.

I know you can make Windows XP look just like Windows Vista with a few 3rd
party programs. That is what I did before Vista was released to the
public.
However, I only saw transparency programs like glass2k that made the whole
window transparent which wasn't any good.

Window Blinds uses too much processor time, so I just use the uxtheme
patcher that modifies the uxtheme.dll file to allow XP to use themes that
are
not digitally signed by Microsoft. The Vista Transformation Pack 4.0 uses
this approach. All is good, except you don't get the same feeling using
XP
as you do with Vista. That, and I had to explain to a few people that
asked
that it wasn't really Vista but me just trying to make it look like Vista.

Oh well, it happens. It's all good.

BTW, Aero works fine for me with the ATI Radeon Mobility x300 w/ 64mb of
video memory that came with my computer over a year ago. I could upgrade
to
the x300 w/ 128mb, but I don't think it is worth the $150 extra it would
cost. Silly laptop video cards.
--
Robert Firth
http://www.winvistainfo.org

I don't think it's bad in the sense of evil, but unfortunately it has
been a
publicity vehicle and it masks the fact that in Vista "the emperor has no
clothes."

CH

I don't think aero glass is that bad...kind of cool. sure, eye candy,
but
it
works fine for a cheap <$50 price for graphics card.

:

What MSFT knows: The PT Barnumization of Vista. A Sucker is born
every
minute.

We couldn't make the operating system work--Balmer ought to elaborate
on
the
big mistake he claims was made that cost a ton of features in Vista.

You can run Vista on a 32MB video card just fine. I've done it. You
need
Aero Glass like you need a hole through your frontal lobe with a
hollow
point bullet.

3rd party has had effects that look exactly like Aero Glass, Flip 3D
and
every spinoff that will be related to RTM when Sinofsky boxes crap
with
far
superior 3D looks for years.

Aero Glass is MSFT appealing to the breed of civilization who has to
show
up
in the neighborhood with an SUV and a little polo on an ordinary golf
shirt
for status.

I'm surprised the Windows Start Button isn't a Hummer II. The
commercial
with the consummately stupid mommy who is shoved aside at the sliding
board
and solves her problem by going out and getting a Hummer is the same
narcissistic personality that MSFT appeals to with Aero Frigging
Glass.
It's worthless. "No it's [Valley Girl lilt] like Way Kuelllll"
"Mommy
go
get me some Aero Glass. Gotta have it."

What the hell function does Aero Glass give you ? If that's MSFT's
idea
of
good looks, they need a massive retinal and optic lobe transplant.

They should be focusing on why Win RE doesn't work most of the time
and
why
SFC switches don't work in every single Branch of RC1 including what
the
shipped to TAP August 2.

You can get great sound on a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Vintage 2000
sound
card
if you know driver tricks in Vista.

No wonder the NYTimes did a front page story on the shrink who has
made
millions advising companies on how to design SUVs for the reptilian
primitive brain.

It's means marketing to the brain of Fred Flintstone and Barney is
alive
and well.

CH




don't need the best video card...i'm on a PCI Geforce FX 5200 w/256
VRAM.
Cost me less than 50 bucks. my mobo doesn't even have an AGP or
PCI-E
slot.
aero glass works fine for me. flip 3D, flip, live taskbar
thumbnails
all
perfect. Have widescreen 1440 x 900 display too. I think the
amount
of
RAM
is more important.

:

Ah... late at night, sitting on the front porch, surprised I'm
getting
Wi-Fi
signal here, but, hey, it's all good.

This won't come as any surprise to the experienced users in this
group,
but
thought I'd post anyway...

When it comes time to upgrade your PC to run Vista, or if you're
buying a
new box for whatever reason...

Don't skimp on the video card. Get the best video card you can
afford.
It
is
the main factor in how your PC will present Vista's UI to you. And
I'm
not
talking just about gaming...

If you can't afford a decent video card... then give up thoughts of
running
Aero Glass. Not a great loss, to be sure... and... I created a
matrix
tonight of the 3 boxes on which I'm running Vista.

Too detailed to post the whole thing here, and I believe they
discourage,
if
not completely forbid, the posting of attachements in a non-binary
NG,
so
I'll summarize.

The box I'm on now has a duo core 1.83GHz P4. Got the highest
processor
rating from Windows Experience of the 3 boxes (the other two being
a
P4
HT
3GHz box and the third being a P4 3.8GHz box). Also got the lowest
video
rating because I haven't found video drivers that will install for
Vista.
Point in fact: it "appears" to be the slowest box because of the
lack
of
Vista video drivers. Even though it is not running Aero Glass.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is: don't expect your P3
with
32MB
video RAM to run Vista acceptably. As all of the experienced users
know...
take MS's recommended minimum, crank it up 2x's and you'll have the
real
world minimum for every new MS OS. Crank it up 4x's and you may
even
be
happy. Or you could always stick with XP or W2K or Win98 or Win95
or
<insert
distro here> Linux.

Apologies to all for the late night screed...

Lang

 

[William]

I remember that comment from a program on the Science Channel.

William

 

[Lang Murphy]

Well... heh, heh, heh... -I- would never spend $300 on a "decent" video
card. I guess I wasn't clear on what I think a decent video card is... I'll
leave that up to the buyer's budget.

Yes, I read the extremetech article, it's got some real good info in it. My
comments came from my own experience testing PC's for a corporate PC program
a few years ago. Seemed back then, and I'll warrant it still has some
relevence, that the main bottleneck for "perceived" performance is the video
card because it's what's drawing the screen.

Heck, I'm not saying folks need to break the bank to buy a video card, just
do your homework and don't expect, like I said, your P3 with 32MB's of video
RAM to run Aero Glass. Don't care about Aero Glass? Fine. Don't expect your
P3 with 32MB of video RAM to run any flavor of Vista acceptably.

I got an emachines PC last year for my wife and kids to share for email and
whatever. Upgraded a, ahem, P3 300MHz. Got the emachines on sale for $400
with 2.2 GHz AMD whatever, 512MB RAM, 160GB HD, DVD burner, 7 in 1 card
reader, and then dropped another $100 on upgrading RAM to 1GB and adding a
200GB HD. So for $500 I got a pretty kicking machine. Will have to buy a
video card if I want Aero Glass on it cause the onboard video doesn't
support pixel 2 shading. At least, thank god, the eMachines has a AGP slot
to upgrade video; low end Dell's of the same period and price range did not
offer an video upgrade path.

Lang

 

[Guest]

I see what you mean.
--
Robert Firth
http://www.winvistainfo.org

"BTW, Aero works fine for me with the ATI Radeon Mobility x300 w/ 64mb of
video memory that came with my computer over a year ago. I could upgrade to
the x300 w/ 128mb, but I don't think it is worth the $150 extra it would
cost. Silly laptop video cards."

"Vista works fine on a 866mhz computer with only 383mb of memory (Dell
Dimension 4100). The only problem it has was Vista didn't know how to turn
it
off so the screen when black but the computer stayed on for a while."


This is good info, Robert. I didn't know you could make Aero's features
work with a 64 MB card. It's always useful to know how older PCs can run a
new OS, and I think a lot of people might be surprised the Dimension could
run it so well.

I should have been more careful to make clear there is nothing wrong with
eye candy, good looks, and the best possible UI presented, but that it seems
to be so hyped and is probably not near the most compelling reason to have a
certain level graphics card that will run Aero Glass.

The loose analogies weren't meant to give the wrong impression, but it seems
that Aero Glass is being hyped as a * major sales point (anyone of course
can showcase whatever they want to sell).

CH

Since when was eye candy bad? It is nice to have candy tossed at you even
once in a while. Thats why I go to the Mardi Gras parades every year.

Sometimes people try to say fancy things such as Aero glass are bad
things.
I don't know about you, but I don't mind my computer looking fancy.
However,
I would like more work put in fixing security issues than how pretty they
can
make it look.

I know you can make Windows XP look just like Windows Vista with a few 3rd
party programs. That is what I did before Vista was released to the
public.
However, I only saw transparency programs like glass2k that made the whole
window transparent which wasn't any good.

Window Blinds uses too much processor time, so I just use the uxtheme
patcher that modifies the uxtheme.dll file to allow XP to use themes that
are
not digitally signed by Microsoft. The Vista Transformation Pack 4.0 uses
this approach. All is good, except you don't get the same feeling using
XP
as you do with Vista. That, and I had to explain to a few people that
asked
that it wasn't really Vista but me just trying to make it look like Vista.

Oh well, it happens. It's all good.

BTW, Aero works fine for me with the ATI Radeon Mobility x300 w/ 64mb of
video memory that came with my computer over a year ago. I could upgrade
to
the x300 w/ 128mb, but I don't think it is worth the $150 extra it would
cost. Silly laptop video cards.
--
Robert Firth
http://www.winvistainfo.org

I don't think it's bad in the sense of evil, but unfortunately it has
been a
publicity vehicle and it masks the fact that in Vista "the emperor has no
clothes."

CH

I don't think aero glass is that bad...kind of cool. sure, eye candy,
but
it
works fine for a cheap <$50 price for graphics card.

:

What MSFT knows: The PT Barnumization of Vista. A Sucker is born
every
minute.

We couldn't make the operating system work--Balmer ought to elaborate
on
the
big mistake he claims was made that cost a ton of features in Vista.

You can run Vista on a 32MB video card just fine. I've done it. You
need
Aero Glass like you need a hole through your frontal lobe with a
hollow
point bullet.

3rd party has had effects that look exactly like Aero Glass, Flip 3D
and
every spinoff that will be related to RTM when Sinofsky boxes crap
with
far
superior 3D looks for years.

Aero Glass is MSFT appealing to the breed of civilization who has to
show
up
in the neighborhood with an SUV and a little polo on an ordinary golf
shirt
for status.

I'm surprised the Windows Start Button isn't a Hummer II. The
commercial
with the consummately stupid mommy who is shoved aside at the sliding
board
and solves her problem by going out and getting a Hummer is the same
narcissistic personality that MSFT appeals to with Aero Frigging
Glass.
It's worthless. "No it's [Valley Girl lilt] like Way Kuelllll"
"Mommy
go
get me some Aero Glass. Gotta have it."

What the hell function does Aero Glass give you ? If that's MSFT's
idea
of
good looks, they need a massive retinal and optic lobe transplant.

They should be focusing on why Win RE doesn't work most of the time
and
why
SFC switches don't work in every single Branch of RC1 including what
the
shipped to TAP August 2.

You can get great sound on a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Vintage 2000
sound
card
if you know driver tricks in Vista.

No wonder the NYTimes did a front page story on the shrink who has
made
millions advising companies on how to design SUVs for the reptilian
primitive brain.

It's means marketing to the brain of Fred Flintstone and Barney is
alive
and well.

CH




don't need the best video card...i'm on a PCI Geforce FX 5200 w/256
VRAM.
Cost me less than 50 bucks. my mobo doesn't even have an AGP or
PCI-E
slot.
aero glass works fine for me. flip 3D, flip, live taskbar
thumbnails
all
perfect. Have widescreen 1440 x 900 display too. I think the
amount
of
RAM
is more important.

:

Ah... late at night, sitting on the front porch, surprised I'm
getting
Wi-Fi
signal here, but, hey, it's all good.

This won't come as any surprise to the experienced users in this
group,
but
thought I'd post anyway...

When it comes time to upgrade your PC to run Vista, or if you're
buying a
new box for whatever reason...

Don't skimp on the video card. Get the best video card you can
afford.
It
is
the main factor in how your PC will present Vista's UI to you. And
I'm
not
talking just about gaming...

If you can't afford a decent video card... then give up thoughts of
running
Aero Glass. Not a great loss, to be sure... and... I created a
matrix
tonight of the 3 boxes on which I'm running Vista.

Too detailed to post the whole thing here, and I believe they
discourage,
if
not completely forbid, the posting of attachements in a non-binary
NG,
so
I'll summarize.

The box I'm on now has a duo core 1.83GHz P4. Got the highest
processor
rating from Windows Experience of the 3 boxes (the other two being
a
P4
HT
3GHz box and the third being a P4 3.8GHz box). Also got the lowest
video
rating because I haven't found video drivers that will install for
Vista.
Point in fact: it "appears" to be the slowest box because of the
lack
of
Vista video drivers. Even though it is not running Aero Glass.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is: don't expect your P3
with
32MB
video RAM to run Vista acceptably. As all of the experienced users
know...
take MS's recommended minimum, crank it up 2x's and you'll have the
real
world minimum for every new MS OS. Crank it up 4x's and you may
even
be
happy. Or you could always stick with XP or W2K or Win98 or Win95
or
<insert
distro here> Linux.

Apologies to all for the late night screed...

Lang

 

[John Jay Smith]

it had more than your digital wristwatch too...

A modern pocket calculator has more power than the computer on the Lunar
Module had.

William

 

[John Jay Smith]

correction: Less than your digital wristwatch!

A modern pocket calculator has more power than the computer on the Lunar
Module had.

William

 

[Bernie]

Thanks Chad. Truly remarkable.