FYI-----Bios Update

[Guest]

I have read on many websites and in many discussion groups that one should
not update the bios unless there are problems with the existing bios. In
other words, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". However, shortly after
receiving my new computer (Vista Premium preinstalled) I received an email
from Dell telling me to update my bios. I updated the bios and everything was
OK.

I recently received another email from Dell telling me that the bios needed
updated again so I went to support.dell.com and downloaded the bios update. I
tried to install the bios update but the application would not work. I called
Dell technical support. The Dell support rep took control of my computer via
"remote assistance" and attempted to flash the bios. During the process the
current bios was erased but the updated bios would not install. At that time
the Dell rep decided to restart my computer. I told him that the current bios
had already been erased and I didn't think it would be a good idea to shut
down the computer. He informed me that everything was OK and proceeded to
shut down my computer.

Of course, as I suspected, with no bios the computer would not operate. He
then told me to boot again and keep pressing the F12 key, which I knew would
not work since I had no bios. He then instructed me to insert the
installation DVD and boot the computer but I knew this would not work either.

My motherboard was fried during the bios update flash. Wasted, kaput,
trashed. However, Dell is sending a technician to my home to replace the
motherboard. The third-party technician told me two things: (01) Never update
the bios unless there is a problem and (02) the Dell technical rep was very
ignorant of the consequences of his actions.

The majority of readers of this newsgroup undoutably know that one should
not update the bios if it is working properly. I also was aware of this.
However, Dell instructed me to update it anyway and I was stupid enough to
listen. This post is for the uninformed who don't know the consequences of
updating the bios. I am still kicking myself in the ass for taking Dell's
advice.

I am more fortunate than others regarding this matter because I have three
other computers to use while my new computer is being repaired. I think the
motherboard was fried during the flashing of the bios, not due to the
shutdown. The Dell computer's motherboard was destroyed by A Dell update. I
don't understand why Dell would want anyone to update their bios when they
know fully well what the consequences can be.

I have two suggestions: If your computer is under warranty and the computer
vendor wants you to update the bios you should update the bios. Once enough
motherboards are fried and the vendor has lost a substantial amount of money
they will reconsider the value of needlessly updating the bios. Secondly, if
your computer is NOT under warranty you should not update the bios regardless
of what the vendor tells you.

Have a nice day.

C.B.

 

[Michael Solomon]

I have read on many websites and in many discussion groups that one should
not update the bios unless there are problems with the existing bios. In
other words, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". However, shortly after
receiving my new computer (Vista Premium preinstalled) I received an email
from Dell telling me to update my bios. I updated the bios and everything
was
OK.

I recently received another email from Dell telling me that the bios
needed
updated again so I went to support.dell.com and downloaded the bios
update. I
tried to install the bios update but the application would not work. I
called
Dell technical support. The Dell support rep took control of my computer
via
"remote assistance" and attempted to flash the bios. During the process
the
current bios was erased but the updated bios would not install. At that
time
the Dell rep decided to restart my computer. I told him that the current
bios
had already been erased and I didn't think it would be a good idea to shut
down the computer. He informed me that everything was OK and proceeded to
shut down my computer.

Of course, as I suspected, with no bios the computer would not operate. He
then told me to boot again and keep pressing the F12 key, which I knew
would
not work since I had no bios. He then instructed me to insert the
installation DVD and boot the computer but I knew this would not work
either.

My motherboard was fried during the bios update flash. Wasted, kaput,
trashed. However, Dell is sending a technician to my home to replace the
motherboard. The third-party technician told me two things: (01) Never
update
the bios unless there is a problem and (02) the Dell technical rep was
very
ignorant of the consequences of his actions.

The majority of readers of this newsgroup undoutably know that one should
not update the bios if it is working properly. I also was aware of this.
However, Dell instructed me to update it anyway and I was stupid enough to
listen. This post is for the uninformed who don't know the consequences of
updating the bios. I am still kicking myself in the ass for taking Dell's
advice.

I am more fortunate than others regarding this matter because I have three
other computers to use while my new computer is being repaired. I think
the
motherboard was fried during the flashing of the bios, not due to the
shutdown. The Dell computer's motherboard was destroyed by A Dell update.
I
don't understand why Dell would want anyone to update their bios when they
know fully well what the consequences can be.

I have two suggestions: If your computer is under warranty and the
computer
vendor wants you to update the bios you should update the bios. Once
enough
motherboards are fried and the vendor has lost a substantial amount of
money
they will reconsider the value of needlessly updating the bios. Secondly,
if
your computer is NOT under warranty you should not update the bios
regardless
of what the vendor tells you.

Have a nice day.

C.B.

Good advice not to update the BIOS unless there is a specific need addressed
by that update. By the same token, I'm a bit surprised that the technician
didn't at least backup the current BIOS before attempting the update. That
is standard operating procedure for every such update I've seen and they
always include instructions on how to do it. That small ounce of prevention
might have saved a lot of trouble though, avoiding doing the update for no
reason was the better course of action.

I think folks should avoid the first suggestion in your last paragraph. It
would be less destructive and probably equally productive if they just
loaded up the vendor's support lines with questions about the necessity of
the update in view of not having any issues and asking them precisely what
this update provides and addresses.

 

[NotMe]

BIOS updates have always been risky.
In the 'olden days' the BIOS chips were replaceable. If you messed one up,
you might be able to get another chip, flash it to the BIOS version desired,
then plug it in the board. The newer ones are usually non-replaceable and
the whole board is toast if the BIOS flash fails.
Any technician who tries a BIOS flash from a remote connection should be
moved to the mailroom.
I know there is supposedly software that will flash the BIOS from within
Windows, but I don't trust it.
I always make at least 2 copies of the BIOS that I have downloaded.
I prefer to do it from a Floppy, even if I have to install one.
During the process, it should allow you to save the old BIOS (which is much
harder to do when flashing from a CD) then install the new version.
By saving the old, you can then boot from that floppy and restore the old
one if the new proves unstable.
But if the new BIOS doesn't fix a problem with machine function, there is no
need to take the chance on it.

 

[Milhouse Van Houten]

You probably already know, but this has been a major problem on Dell's
forums. People are "bricking" their systems left and right, and Dell has yet
to offer any kind of improved flash mechanism to improve the situation.

Per another post, backing up the BIOS doesn't help, nor retrying the flash.
It's simply gone to the great beyond, and there's nothing for it but to
replace the board.

Unfortunately with many Dells, there are quite valid reasons to flash, like
a problem on the Dimension C521/E521 line in which the system frequently
will not boot (from its own hard drive) if a USB hub is plugged in (I've
seen it happen with a USB drive as well).

Given that you can spare the computer for a day or two, I recommend everyone
flash their Dells about a week or two before your warranty is up. Worst case
you'll have the latest firmware at the last opportunity to do it with
nothing to lose; best case you'll get a new motherboard, maybe even a later
hardware revision/model.

It's kind of funny, but throughout the late 90's into the early 00's, I
flashed countless Asus and Abit systems with nary a problem. In later years,
I also flashed my Intel board many times without a hitch. Dell is the #1 PC
maker in the country, but in 2007 they can't seem to get it right.

 

[Lang Murphy]

I have read on many websites and in many discussion groups that one should
not update the bios unless there are problems with the existing bios. In
other words, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". However, shortly after
receiving my new computer (Vista Premium preinstalled) I received an email
from Dell telling me to update my bios. I updated the bios and everything
was
OK.

I recently received another email from Dell telling me that the bios
needed
updated again so I went to support.dell.com and downloaded the bios
update. I
tried to install the bios update but the application would not work. I
called
Dell technical support. The Dell support rep took control of my computer
via
"remote assistance" and attempted to flash the bios. During the process
the
current bios was erased but the updated bios would not install. At that
time
the Dell rep decided to restart my computer. I told him that the current
bios
had already been erased and I didn't think it would be a good idea to shut
down the computer. He informed me that everything was OK and proceeded to
shut down my computer.

Of course, as I suspected, with no bios the computer would not operate. He
then told me to boot again and keep pressing the F12 key, which I knew
would
not work since I had no bios. He then instructed me to insert the
installation DVD and boot the computer but I knew this would not work
either.

My motherboard was fried during the bios update flash. Wasted, kaput,
trashed. However, Dell is sending a technician to my home to replace the
motherboard. The third-party technician told me two things: (01) Never
update
the bios unless there is a problem and (02) the Dell technical rep was
very
ignorant of the consequences of his actions.

The majority of readers of this newsgroup undoutably know that one should
not update the bios if it is working properly. I also was aware of this.
However, Dell instructed me to update it anyway and I was stupid enough to
listen. This post is for the uninformed who don't know the consequences of
updating the bios. I am still kicking myself in the ass for taking Dell's
advice.

I am more fortunate than others regarding this matter because I have three
other computers to use while my new computer is being repaired. I think
the
motherboard was fried during the flashing of the bios, not due to the
shutdown. The Dell computer's motherboard was destroyed by A Dell update.
I
don't understand why Dell would want anyone to update their bios when they
know fully well what the consequences can be.

I have two suggestions: If your computer is under warranty and the
computer
vendor wants you to update the bios you should update the bios. Once
enough
motherboards are fried and the vendor has lost a substantial amount of
money
they will reconsider the value of needlessly updating the bios. Secondly,
if
your computer is NOT under warranty you should not update the bios
regardless
of what the vendor tells you.

Have a nice day.

C.B.

Wow... that guy should be canned! Unbelievable...

I'm a Dell consumer. I have, uh, lessee... 10 Dell's here. (9 work PC's,
provided by my employer and one personal PC, funded by me. My son also has a
Dell desktop and my daughter has a Dell laptop, both away at school, both
funded by moi.)

For my personal PC's (I also have an eMachines here at home), yeah, I don't
touch the BIOS, just about ever. Unless it might fix an issue I'm having.
That said, I don't think I've flashed the BIOS on any of my personal PC's in
the last couple of years.

The work PC's are another matter. I generally don't flash the BIOS on them
either, except if I ever have to contact MS support about something because
the first question out of the support person's mouth is, usually without
fail, "Is the BIOS the latest BIOS?" They won't continue the conversation if
it's not. Now... maybe that's an MS ploy to terminate the support call
quickly, but I guess it makes sense because if they have to reference
solutions based on the latest BIOS, then... well, I guess that's reasonable.
(And maybe not... I dunno...)

Lang

 

[Tim Judd]

You probably already know, but this has been a major problem on Dell's
forums. People are "bricking" their systems left and right, and Dell has
yet to offer any kind of improved flash mechanism to improve the situation.

Per another post, backing up the BIOS doesn't help, nor retrying the
flash. It's simply gone to the great beyond, and there's nothing for it
but to replace the board.

Unfortunately with many Dells, there are quite valid reasons to flash,
like a problem on the Dimension C521/E521 line in which the system
frequently will not boot (from its own hard drive) if a USB hub is
plugged in (I've seen it happen with a USB drive as well).

Given that you can spare the computer for a day or two, I recommend
everyone flash their Dells about a week or two before your warranty is
up. Worst case you'll have the latest firmware at the last opportunity
to do it with nothing to lose; best case you'll get a new motherboard,
maybe even a later hardware revision/model.

It's kind of funny, but throughout the late 90's into the early 00's, I
flashed countless Asus and Abit systems with nary a problem. In later
years, I also flashed my Intel board many times without a hitch. Dell is
the #1 PC maker in the country, but in 2007 they can't seem to get it
right.

<CHOP original post, noticing you top-posted....>

Just a smidge off topic, but I felt it should be said.

I cannot stop name-brand PCs from being sold. I don't want to be
accused of stopping it. But there is an OBVIOUS problem with buying
name-brand PCs (Dell, HP, Compaq, Toshiba, Asus...).

At the very least -- they cheat you on warranty. Let me explain this.
A white-box (custom built, no name-brand) PC will have industry standard
equipment installed, will have the manufacturer's warranty for all parts
of the PC, and starts crapware free. I priced the cheapest Dell PC
(without any modifications) and the closest white-box PC from my
favorite online retailer, identically. The white-box PC was higher in
cost. About US$150 higher. The white-box would contain the same OS,
OEM license from Microsoft, and almost all peripherals (Note: I couldn't
find a duplicate sound card, Dell offered a 7.1 sound, and I only found
a 5.1 available).

The white-box was having Retail/OEM warranties ranging from 1 year to
lifetime, without adding anything extra. Typical warranty on the
white-box was 2 years for all items in the box, averaged. Dell was
offering the PC with only a 1 year warranty. This was counting
identical hardware (Manufacturer and model numbers). I added a 3 year
warranty to the Dell and I got the white-box still about US$20 cheaper
in price. If nothing else, the warranty on memory for lifetime would
beat Dells warranty when the PC was out of warranty.

Typical warranties on the equipment that fails the most: Hard drives
and CD-ROM/DVD drives. Hard drives are between 3-5 years, and
CD-ROM/DVDs were all mostly 1 year. And my experience has been that if
an equipment lasts it's OEM warranty, it will last MUCH longer, or
forever until it's outdated (such as 650MB CDs have been outdated in
favor of 700MB CDs and DVD Dual Layers (8.5GB)).

The BIOS upgrading, the drivers, and the software you run on a
name-brand PC are valid and work most of the time. The same drivers and
software work on a white-box, and the BIOS updates have never failed for
me, given you download and apply the update correctly (Follow the
directions!).

Then there's the incompatibility layer with Non-Windows operating
systems. For those who do not know, I run BSD systems instead of the
popular Linux-based systems. Both BSD and Linux prefer hardware that is
more industry standard and compliant. So if you ever want to run a BSD
or Linux-based system, all white-boxes are actually preferred over
name-brand PCs which may take shortcuts and/or removing
industry-standard components that are expected in a PC.

I found in this little discovery, the following:

1) Name-brand PCs may be cheaper and more attractive, but they short you
on the warranty (even if it's the memory warranty alone) for the same
equipment a white-box has.
2) Name-brand PCs not industry standard. So a major component fails
after the name-brand warranty warranty expires, you pay an incredibly
high dollar amount to replace it.
3) Name-brand PCs take shortcuts and remove basic functionality out of
the system that makes Non-Windows (if you're ever interested) systems
possibly difficult or impossible to operate and run.
4) White-boxes can be cheaper, with a longer warranty.
5) White-boxes are industry standard, so replacing a motherboard or
another major component is childs play.
6) White-boxes are being offered as barebones kits, just add a couple of
items to perfect your system! This can save money and have an
attractive looking PC.
7) White-boxes can be able to run every software available that
name-brand PCs can run. They often can run more Operating System or
Distributions than name-brand PCs can.

If you don't know how to build your own, there are plenty of howtos and
guides online on how to build your white-box PC. Using the terms
'custom' or 'home' might yield better results than 'white-box'.

--My two cents!

 

[Huib]

Hi,
I had the same problem with HP.
With S-video not working they ordered me to perform a Bios-update ?
The update failed...i got a new motherboard and the S-video worked
I will never perform anymore a bios-update (i did know that it was risky but
a new PC...)

Question:
-Can you give some further explication how to make a copy of the Bios .
-i want to be prepared whenever i hav to execute it nevertheless.

Regards
Huib