Fixing the MBR without the recovery console?

[Massimo]

I need to rewrite the MBR on a Windows XP hard drive, because it does things
a well-behaved MBR really shouldn't do (damned Acer laptops and their hidden
recovery partitions...); I would normally use the recovery console and the
FIXMBR command for this, but this particular laptop has a non-standard SATA
controller, so the Windows CD-ROM won't see any disk upon booting; it also
doesn't have any floppy drive, so even F6 is totally useless here.

I can connect the (2.5") disk through a USB adapter to a working Windows XP
computer and access it, but FIXMBR only exists in the recovery console, and
I'm unable to find anything to do the same job on a running system; is there
some tool I can use for this?


Thanks


Massimo

 

[Mark L. Ferguson]

The recovery console can be installed like a second OS, with an item on the
boot.ini menu.

How to install and use the Recovery Console in Windows XP:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;307654&Product=winxp

 

[Massimo]

The recovery console can be installed like a second OS, with
an item on the boot.ini menu.

I know, but this can get quite difficult to accomplish on a system that
isn't booting anymore ;-)


Massimo

 

[philo]

I need to rewrite the MBR on a Windows XP hard drive, because it does things
a well-behaved MBR really shouldn't do (damned Acer laptops and their hidden
recovery partitions...); I would normally use the recovery console and the
FIXMBR command for this, but this particular laptop has a non-standard SATA
controller, so the Windows CD-ROM won't see any disk upon booting; it also
doesn't have any floppy drive, so even F6 is totally useless here.

I can connect the (2.5") disk through a USB adapter to a working Windows XP
computer and access it, but FIXMBR only exists in the recovery console, and
I'm unable to find anything to do the same job on a running system; is there
some tool I can use for this?

If you make a slipstreamed CD you can put the drivers on it

I think this is a link that covers the situation

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Install-Windows-XP-On-SATA-Without-a-Floppy-F6-47807.shtml

 

[Massimo]

If you make a slipstreamed CD you can put the drivers on it

Yes, I know this too, but thanks anyway for the tip

I just want to know if there is any way to fix the MBR on a running Windows
XP System... something like the recovery console's FIXMBR, or the old DOS
command "FDISK /MBR".


Massimo

 

[cornedbeef007-groups]

I know, but this can get quite difficult to accomplish on a system that
isn't booting anymore ;-)

Massimo

MBRfix from http://www.sysint.no will fix your MBR without recovery
console.

It did for me, on a machine with only a SATA disk which XP disk
wouldn't see.

Good luck.

 

[Massimo]

MBRfix from http://www.sysint.no will fix your MBR without recovery
console.

That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks.


Massimo

 

[philo]

Yes, I know this too, but thanks anyway for the tip

I just want to know if there is any way to fix the MBR on a running Windows
XP System... something like the recovery console's FIXMBR, or the old DOS
command "FDISK /MBR".

Actually win9x fdisk /mbr will reapir an XP bootsector...
but without a floppy drive...that would be useless...


and still, it would not recognize the drive

 

[VanguardLH]

I need to rewrite the MBR on a Windows XP hard drive, because it
does things a well-behaved MBR really shouldn't do (damned Acer
laptops and their hidden recovery partitions...); I would normally
use the recovery console and the FIXMBR command for this, but this
particular laptop has a non-standard SATA controller, so the Windows
CD-ROM won't see any disk upon booting; it also doesn't have any
floppy drive, so even F6 is totally useless here.

I can connect the (2.5") disk through a USB adapter to a working
Windows XP computer and access it, but FIXMBR only exists in the
recovery console, and I'm unable to find anything to do the same job
on a running system; is there some tool I can use for this?

Go to www.bootdisk.com, create a Win98/DOS bootable floppy, boot using
the floppy, run "FDISK /MBR". It does the same as running FIXMBR.
Both write a "standard" bootstrap program into the first 446 bytes of
the MBR (1st unusable sector). Every version of DOS and Windows will
write a slightly different set of bytes into the MBR bootstrap area so
"standard" is a bit of a misnomer, but they all perform nearly the
same actions.

However, most MBR bootstrap utilities might not support rewriting the
446-byte area of the 1st sector on a removable device, like a USB hard
disk. One, there would be no USB drivers loaded yet to support that
device. Two, the standard location for the bootstrap program is in
first sector on the first hard disk detected by the BIOS. If your
BIOS can see the SATA drive than the MBR utility should work. If not,
perhaps you need to ensure the SATA BIOS is also enabled in your
system BIOS.

 

[VanguardLH]

in message

...

Go to www.bootdisk.com, create a Win98/DOS bootable floppy, boot
using the floppy, run "FDISK /MBR". It does the same as running
FIXMBR. Both write a "standard" bootstrap program into the first 446
bytes of the MBR (1st unusable sector). Every version of DOS and
Windows will write a slightly different set of bytes into the MBR
bootstrap area so "standard" is a bit of a misnomer, but they all
perform nearly the same actions.

However, most MBR bootstrap utilities might not support rewriting
the 446-byte area of the 1st sector on a removable device, like a
USB hard disk. One, there would be no USB drivers loaded yet to
support that device. Two, the standard location for the bootstrap
program is in first sector on the first hard disk detected by the
BIOS. If your BIOS can see the SATA drive than the MBR utility
should work. If not, perhaps you need to ensure the SATA BIOS is
also enabled in your system BIOS.

Oops, didn't see that you do not have a floppy drive. Guess you must
be using a laptop but forgot to mention that. Guess you'll have to go
with the slipstreamed CD.
There are some bootable CDs around, like UltimateBootCD, that have
these utilities on them. I think some bootable CD images are also
listed at www.bootdisk.com.

It has been a long time since I used it, but maybe mbrtool
(http://www.diydatarecovery.nl/mbrtool.htm) will let you specify a
different drive than the standard one where the MBR is found by the
system BIOS on bootup. However, it might not be allowed to run under
Windows because of its attempt to make direct access to the hardware.

 

[James Silverton]

VanguardLH wrote on Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:13:12 -0600:

V> "VanguardLH" wrote in message
V> ??>>
??>> "Massimo" wrote ...
V> Oops, didn't see that you do not have a floppy drive.
Guess
V> you must be using a laptop but forgot to mention that.
V> Guess you'll have to go with the slipstreamed CD.
V> There are some bootable CDs around, like UltimateBootCD,
V> that have these utilities on them. I think some bootable CD
V> images are also listed at www.bootdisk.com.

Not intended as a sarcastic comment but what exactly does
"slipstreamed" mean?

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

 

[Massimo]

I need to rewrite the MBR on a Windows XP hard drive, because it does
things a well-behaved MBR really shouldn't do (damned Acer laptops
and their hidden recovery partitions...); I would normally use the
recovery
console and the FIXMBR command for this, but this particular laptop has
a non-standard SATA controller, so the Windows CD-ROM won't see
any disk upon booting; it also doesn't have any floppy drive, so even F6
is totally useless here.

I can connect the (2.5") disk through a USB adapter to a working Windows
XP computer and access it, but FIXMBR only exists in the recovery console,
and I'm unable to find anything to do the same job on a running system; is
there some tool I can use for this?

Thanks for all the tips, I finally solved it using dskprobe.exe from the
Windows Support Tool to copy the MBR from a the disk on my workstation to
the laptop's disk attached via USB. I then manually fixed the partition
table (which were of course copied along with the MBR) with Partition
Magic's PQEdit utility.

The reason for all of this: I have this Acer laptop which came preinstalled
with a disk partitioning scheme I didn't like, so I used Partition Magic
from my workstation (via USB) to delete Acer's 5 GB recovery partition and
the useless second NTFS partition, and then extended the main C: partition
to the whole disk; Partition Magic did this finely, and I also properly
modified the BOOT.INI configuration to reflet the new partitioning, but then
the laptop wouldn't boot.

Upon further investigation, I discovered the partition table was modified
and the first partition was automatically configured as a non-bootable
system recovery partition (Windows' disk management showed it as "EISA
Configuration"); I reconfigured it with PQEdit, but then, when trying to
boot the laptop, the same thing happened.

Upon further further investigation, I finally discovered this was the MBR's
responsibility, as it was not a standard MBR, but a custom Acer one, which
automatically reseted the first partition's type that way, regardless of the
partition's size and actual content.


Crazy.


Massimo

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

It is a method of making an up-to-date Windows cd or dvd so that when you
install or repair XP the latest software is used instead of the original
release. For example, my XP Home cd is an XP Gold (meaning the XP Home that
released in 2001).

There have been two service packs released since then, SP1 and SP2. If I
want to install XP Home again I would have a lot of updating from Windows
Update to do afterwards if I use the original cd. Once I updated my XP Home
installation with a service pack I could no longer do a repair install if I
needed to because the XP cd and the installed XP would no longer be the same
version of XP.

So the solution is to create a new Windows cd from the original and the
latest service pack. This is what is called a slipstreamed cd.
Slipstreaming combines the files on the cd with the files from the service
pack to create a new cd. There are a couple of slipstreaming programs on
the web that you can look at to see just how this is done.

Autostreamer:
http://www.simplyguides.net/guides/using_autostreamer/using_autostreamer.shtml

nLite: http://www.nliteos.com/guide/

A slipstreamed cd is a good thing to have.

 

[Bill in Co.]

And just as an FYI: Dell also uses such extra partitions for its Utility
and Restore partitions. So it's not just Acer. But I guess they can be
handy if you ever need to restore back to the original factory setup,
*assuming the MBR is still correct*.

Can I ask a related question here? I'm guessing that the only time the
MBR will normally change is if you either add, delete, or resize a disk
partition, or replace or add another hard drive. Is that correct???
So that any programs you add or remove have nothing to do with it, and ditto
for the hardware, unless it's a change in hard drives?

So then the only time you would need to resave an updated binary copy of the
MBR (for future restore purposes) is when you either add, delete, or resize
some disk partitions, and/or change the hard drive? Is that correct?

Thanks,
Bill in Co.

 

[VanguardLH]

in message

Not intended as a sarcastic comment but what exactly does
"slipstreamed" mean?

Google for it.
http://www.google.com/search?q=+slipstream++windows++cd
After reading a couple of articles, you'll figure it out.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

This should be after your signature delimiter ("-- "), not inside the
body of your post. Define a signature to add this fluff. In OE, you
can even have different signatures for different accounts.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Not intended as a sarcastic comment but what exactly does
"slipstreamed" mean?

The word "slipstreaming" was originally used to refer to the practice
of many software manufacturers of including updates to their product
on the distribution CD without any real announcement of what they were
doing or differentiation of the various kind of CDs. It was always a
disparaging term because it was poor practice. It was used as a way
for the manufacturer not to have to print a different box, manual,
etc. for the updated version, and to sell older stock that didn't
appear to be outdated, but actually was. That saved them money, but it
left the customer unable to tell whether he was buying the new version
or the old.

Somewhere along the line, people started creating their own updated
versions of some software, by merging the update files with the
original CD. Someone got the bright idea to call it by the same name
"slipstreaming," without realizing that the name was originally used
in a disparaging way.

The term stuck. I dislike the use of the word this way, but the
original meaning has been lost, so I long ago gave up trying to fight
it. Since everybody now uses it simply to mean a version with the
upgrade incorporated in it, I reluctantly go along.

So these days a slipstreamed copy of XP simply means an installation
CD that you've made yourself that incorporates an upgrade, such as
SP2.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

The word "slipstreaming" was originally used to refer to the practice
of many software manufacturers of including updates to their product
on the distribution CD without any real announcement of what they
were doing or differentiation of the various kind of CDs. It was always
a disparaging term because it was poor practice. It was used as a way
for the manufacturer not to have to print a different box, manual, etc.
for the updated version, and to sell older stock that didn't appear to
be outdated, but actually was. That saved them money, but it left the
customer unable to tell whether he was buying the new version or the
old.

Somewhere along the line, people started creating their own updated
versions of some software, by merging the update files with the
original CD. Someone got the bright idea to call it by the same name
"slipstreaming," without realizing that the name was originally used
in a disparaging way.

The term stuck....

Thanks for the historical note. I didn't know that it had originated
as a denigration.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

"Bill in Co." asked:

Can I ask a related question here? I'm guessing that the only time the
MBR will normally change is if you either add, delete, or resize a disk
partition, or replace or add another hard drive. Is that correct???
So that any programs you add or remove have nothing to do with it,
and ditto for the hardware, unless it's a change in hard drives?

So then the only time you would need to resave an updated binary
copy of the MBR (for future restore purposes) is when you either
add, delete, or resize some disk partitions, and/or change the hard
drive? Is that correct?

Thanks,
Bill in Co.

Not quite - adding or replacing or subtracting a hard drive from
the system does not affect the MBR of any of the hard drives. The
MBR pertains to just what is on its own hard drive.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Massimo]

And just as an FYI: Dell also uses such extra partitions for its Utility
and Restore partitions. So it's not just Acer. But I guess they can
be
handy if you ever need to restore back to the original factory setup,
*assuming the MBR is still correct*.

Of course they can be handy... if you like your PC being returned to its
factory default configuration.

Anyway, it's ok if they create recovery partitions; what I think it's most
definitely *NOT* ok is having the MBR modify your partition table
automatically, if you happen to re-partition the disk to better suit your
needs.

So then the only time you would need to resave an updated
binary copy of the MBR (for future restore purposes) is when
you either add, delete, or resize some disk partitions, and/or
change the hard drive? Is that correct?

Yes.


Massimo

 

[Bill in Co.]

Of course they can be handy... if you like your PC being returned to its
factory default configuration.

Yeah, I know. It's not great, but it's always there as a last resort
fallback.

Anyway, it's ok if they create recovery partitions; what I think it's most
definitely *NOT* ok is having the MBR modify your partition table
automatically, if you happen to re-partition the disk to better suit your
needs.

I'm not sure I understand that. If you make any change in partitions to
the hard drive, it HAS to be reflected in the MBR and the partition tables,
doesn't it?