Fear

[David Dickinson]

<BEGIN OPINION>
I gotta tell ya', I've made a lot of money from using and supporting
Microsoft products over the last 28 years. But now, I'm afraid.

The Vista user interface has many, many counter-intuitive features,
including some that through creating confusion will cause disasters,
including loss of data. In fact, Explorer windows may show inaccurate
information. Vista doesn't play well with other machines on a network.
Administering it can be tedious and time-consuming when compared to previous
OS's. A lot of stuff either doesn't work the way you expect or just doesn't
work at all. It's been dumbed down in some areas so much that
administrators can't do some things they need to do (such as customized
backups), while some other "features" have been made so complicated that the
average user is going to have to ask for help where none was needed before.
And while it certainly does have a pretty interface, it's a hardware hog
with lousy performance even in the most stripped-down configuration. People
can buy tremendous hardware thinking that they're going to get the machine
of their dreams, only to find out that it's slower than molasses in January
(for instance, will DX10 destroy DirectX's place in the market?).

And it's buggy, and has been hacked on live TV (with promises from eEye of
more to come).

Nevertheless, I'm going to have to support Vista. But my clients will be
calling more about computer problems than about finding solutions for their
business operations. And they'll be unhappy about it.

I realize that hardware vendors eventually will come up with truly
Vista-compatible drivers, third-parties will offer software to overcome many
of Vista's user-interface and configurability weaknesses, and eventually
Microsoft will issue hotfixes and service packs to fix the bugs and security
holes. And I have no doubt that near-future hardware advances eventually
will make up for some of Vista's performance problems.

But I'm convinced that the next couple of years are not going to be fun, and
I even wonder if we'll be using Vista's Explorer UI at all by then.

I just hope I never resort to saying "Look, don't blame me. I didn't write
this thing." I'll probably be better off if I recommend to my clients that
they avoid getting Vista for a couple of years.
<END OPINION>

 

[Richard Urban]

If everything you say is actually true (it isn't), you should be jumping for
joy at the amount of business you will pick up.

Myself - I have installed Vista on over 100 computers now. I am still
waiting for my first **come back**. It just hasn't happened as of yet.

I suggest you put in the time to really learn the operating system so you
can be of service to your customers. At this point you are afraid of it.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

 

[Steve Easton]

Interesting point of view.
<fwiw>
My Vista experience has been fine. ( Vista Ultimate )
However, I started with a Vista capable Core 2 Duo machine with plenty of RAM
and Vista capable sound and Video.

A lot of the problems I've seen posted here and other places seem to evolve around folks
trying
to run Vista on a machine that just can't handle it.

A lot of people run the compatibility tester, get warnings, go ahead and install it anyway
and then wonder why they have issues.

For me, it boots fast, applications load in a blink, IE and Windows Mail are quicker than
in XP,
( I have a dual boot set up with each OS on it's own drive )

My only frustration was getting used to UAC, which I have left turned on.

</fwiw>

 

[Mac]

It's called the utility curve - and mainstream users should neither be at
the bleeding-edge or stuck with an aging dinosaur. Trouble is OEMs have
starting shipping Vista way too early IMHO.

 

[John Slade]

I gotta tell ya', I've made a lot of money from using and supporting
Microsoft products over the last 28 years. But now, I'm afraid.

The Vista user interface has many, many counter-intuitive features,
including some that through creating confusion will cause disasters,
including loss of data. In fact, Explorer windows may show inaccurate
information. Vista doesn't play well with other machines on a network.
Administering it can be tedious and time-consuming when compared to previous
OS's. A lot of stuff either doesn't work the way you expect or just doesn't
work at all. It's been dumbed down in some areas so much that
administrators can't do some things they need to do (such as customized
backups), while some other "features" have been made so complicated that the
average user is going to have to ask for help where none was needed before.
And while it certainly does have a pretty interface, it's a hardware hog
with lousy performance even in the most stripped-down configuration. People
can buy tremendous hardware thinking that they're going to get the machine
of their dreams, only to find out that it's slower than molasses in January
(for instance, will DX10 destroy DirectX's place in the market?).

And it's buggy, and has been hacked on live TV (with promises from eEye of
more to come).

Nevertheless, I'm going to have to support Vista. But my clients will be
calling more about computer problems than about finding solutions for their
business operations. And they'll be unhappy about it.

I realize that hardware vendors eventually will come up with truly
Vista-compatible drivers, third-parties will offer software to overcome many
of Vista's user-interface and configurability weaknesses, and eventually
Microsoft will issue hotfixes and service packs to fix the bugs and security
holes. And I have no doubt that near-future hardware advances eventually
will make up for some of Vista's performance problems.

But I'm convinced that the next couple of years are not going to be fun, and
I even wonder if we'll be using Vista's Explorer UI at all by then.

I just hope I never resort to saying "Look, don't blame me. I didn't write
this thing." I'll probably be better off if I recommend to my clients that
they avoid getting Vista for a couple of years.

good assessment.

yes, people "in the know" are simply switching over to the Mac.

i think a lot of people thought Microsoft would really put some effort
into Vista, but they decided not to.

apple now has the best operating system and everyone knows it. they also
make the cheapest high end hardware, so it's an easy choice now that
Macs can run windows (if needed) with no speed penalty.

the Microsoft era is basically over.

http://www.apple.com/hardware
http://www.apple.com/software

-

 

[Richard Urban]

When Apple has a 90% market penetration, the era will be over.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

 

[David Dickinson]

My Vista experience has been fine. ( Vista Ultimate )
However, I started with a Vista capable Core 2 Duo machine with plenty of
RAM
and Vista capable sound and Video.

Yes, and I should also add that I've seen Vista machines run great right out
of the box -- not to mention that I'll sleep a little more soundly with
Vista's security enhancements (including the dreaded UAC, although I, too,
have turned it off on on my personal machine). But I had to tweak Vista on
my kid's new Core 2 before I could get C&C to run (almost) as well as it
does on his old P4 with XP. (Fortunately, all I really care about are
business applications, but he's shown me a lot of ways that folks can
destroy their computers, so I like to keep him happy).

A lot of the problems I've seen posted here and other places seem to
evolve around folks trying
to run Vista on a machine that just can't handle it.

We had these experiences with XP and 2000, and even DOS/Win3.1: folks trying
to upgrade on the cheap. Those problems must be discounted.

Side Note: After years of trying to hide the folder tree from users (in XP
and 2000, Microsoft even put Windows Explorer on the Accessories menu), they
decided to base almost the whole Vista user interface on it. Well, better
late than never, I guess.

 

[Larry Maturo]

Hi David,

I've got to say, that I suspect that people who have never used
a PC before will find it easier to learn Vista than XP. The problem
is that the more you know about an old OS, and the more different
the new OS, the harder it will be for you to understand it. I have two
PCs at home, one with Vista and one with XP (not enough Vista drivers
for it yet), and it was hard for me to get used to Vista, but after using it
for a while, I like it better than XP. Of course, your mileage will vary,
just like everyone will never agree on which car is the best.

-- Larry Maturo

 

[David Dickinson]

If everything you say is actually true (it isn't), you should be jumping
for joy at the amount of business you will pick up.

Maybe my wallet will be happy, but no one is happy when they have to pay to
get their computer fixed -- only to find out that it can't be fixed until
someone publishes a software update.

And if I said something that isn't true, you haven't pointed it out a single
thing that was false. I can provide problem examples for /everything/ I
said.

 

[Richard Urban]

It is nowhere near as bad as you make out. If it were, I would have many
come backs. I have had none.

So, either I am doing something right or you are doing something wrong.

There will always be teething problems with a new operating system. With
research, perseverance and sufficient hardware (note I didn't say new
hardware) these problems can be ameliorated.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

 

[David Dickinson]

Hi David,

I've got to say, that I suspect that people who have never used
a PC before will find it easier to learn Vista than XP. The problem
is that the more you know about an old OS, and the more different
the new OS, the harder it will be for you to understand it. I have two
PCs at home, one with Vista and one with XP (not enough Vista drivers
for it yet), and it was hard for me to get used to Vista, but after using
it
for a while, I like it better than XP. Of course, your mileage will vary,
just like everyone will never agree on which car is the best.

-- Larry Maturo

Well, lemme tell 'ya Larry, if everything worked and if I could easily
configure some things the way I used to be able to do (things for which
there are no settings dialogs in Vista, even though they're necessary), I'd
love it. There's no doubt that Vista is attractive. And the prominence
that Microsoft has /finally/ given the folder tree in the user interface is
a BIG plus in my book. But right now, its beauty is only skin deep:

When the contents of a seemingly selected item in the folder tree in the
left-hand pane aren't shown in the right-hand pane, that's a disaster
waiting to happen. When people get lost, sometimes they do things that get
them killed.

 

[Steve Easton]

I might also add that both OSs were installed on brand new, clean formatted hard drives.

 

[NotMe]

30-40 machines here & there may not matter much to MS, but eventually it
will start to add up & get their attention.
Because I find the Vista interface so offensive, I have converted 38 old P3
machines to Linux rather than buying new systems with Vista.
For what the machines do, the current configuration should work until the
hardware dies.
It's taken some study to learn how to set things up properly, but avoiding
the AOL like MS Vista snafu is worth it.
MS decision to try & cater to the lowest common denominator cost someone the
sale of that many new machines and themselves the sale of that many
licenses... so far. AOL wrote their software like that for years, and
remember how quickly they overtook MS as the software leader...

 

[David Dickinson]

AOL wrote their software like that for years, and remember how quickly
they overtook MS as the software leader...

Hmmm... "AOL"...

I remember that name from somewhere. They were once pretty big in
something, weren't they? Are they still around?

(Even the biggest can fall all the way to the bottom.)

 

[Lang Murphy]

<BEGIN OPINION>
I gotta tell ya', I've made a lot of money from using and supporting
Microsoft products over the last 28 years. But now, I'm afraid.

The Vista user interface has many, many counter-intuitive features,
including some that through creating confusion will cause disasters,
including loss of data. In fact, Explorer windows may show inaccurate
information. Vista doesn't play well with other machines on a network.
Administering it can be tedious and time-consuming when compared to
previous OS's. A lot of stuff either doesn't work the way you expect or
just doesn't work at all. It's been dumbed down in some areas so much
that administrators can't do some things they need to do (such as
customized backups), while some other "features" have been made so
complicated that the average user is going to have to ask for help where
none was needed before. And while it certainly does have a pretty
interface, it's a hardware hog with lousy performance even in the most
stripped-down configuration. People can buy tremendous hardware thinking
that they're going to get the machine of their dreams, only to find out
that it's slower than molasses in January (for instance, will DX10 destroy
DirectX's place in the market?).

And it's buggy, and has been hacked on live TV (with promises from eEye of
more to come).

Nevertheless, I'm going to have to support Vista. But my clients will be
calling more about computer problems than about finding solutions for
their business operations. And they'll be unhappy about it.

I realize that hardware vendors eventually will come up with truly
Vista-compatible drivers, third-parties will offer software to overcome
many of Vista's user-interface and configurability weaknesses, and
eventually Microsoft will issue hotfixes and service packs to fix the bugs
and security holes. And I have no doubt that near-future hardware
advances eventually will make up for some of Vista's performance problems.

But I'm convinced that the next couple of years are not going to be fun,
and I even wonder if we'll be using Vista's Explorer UI at all by then.

I just hope I never resort to saying "Look, don't blame me. I didn't
write this thing." I'll probably be better off if I recommend to my
clients that they avoid getting Vista for a couple of years.
<END OPINION>

David,

What follows is not an effort to discredit your observations. For real.

There are folks that have had "good" Vista experiences and folks that have
had "bad" Vista experiences. I happen to fall into the former group. That
I've had "good" Vista experiences on mulitple PC's does not discount those
that have had "bad" experiences.

Why do some folks have "bad" Vista experiences? My opinion (and it's just
that, I don't claim, as others do, to have an all encompassing experience
with everything under the sun when it comes to Vista or XP or Linux) is
that, yes, Vista has bugs, yes, 3rd party drivers can contribute to poor
performance, and yes, the UI is majorly different than XP.

The bugs, one hopes, will be addressed sooner than later. The 3rd party
drivers will become better. As to the UI... well... my personal opinion is
that one must get acclimated to it. Yes, it's way different than XP... if
one is comfortable with XP's UI, then Vista's can be a challenge, no doubt.
There is a lot to learn in the new UI. And... if one takes the time to delve
into the new UI, one can find things that actually make life easier than XP,
e.g., the new search text box right off the Start Orb. Much better than the
Run box. IMHO. Control Panel has the same search functionality. They put the
thing you're looking for in a different place? Use the search text box in
the upper right hand corner of Control Panel to find what you're looking
for -in- Control Panel. Pretty cool, I think.

That all said... I don't disagree with the gist of your post. I guess if
you're going to have to support your customers then you might consider,
especially when it comes to the UI, learning how to get around in Vista so
you can help your customers. Best of luck!

Lang

 

[David Dickinson]

There are folks that have had "good" Vista experiences and folks that have
had "bad" Vista experiences.

Agreed. I've seen some folks smile like the dickens after using their new
machine for just a few minutes, and, from a good OEM, Vista can be pretty
snazzy out of the box. (I really like it when folks smile like that.)

Why do some folks have "bad" Vista experiences? My opinion (and it's just
that, I don't claim, as others do, to have an all encompassing experience
with everything under the sun when it comes to Vista or XP or Linux) is
that, yes, Vista has bugs, yes, 3rd party drivers can contribute to poor
performance, and yes, the UI is majorly different than XP.

It's not that the UI is "different". IMHO, Microsoft waited too long to
make the folder tree as important as it is in Vista, after hiding it for
years in Windows Explorer on the Accessories menu on 2000, XP, and (I think)
ME. But better late than never. In fact, I wanted an even more drastic
change to the UI: no keyboard! And if finding some things, e.g. some
Control Panel items, are a little harder for Joe "The Store Guru" Bookkeeper
to find, that's fine by me! (Although he'll eventually find them and I'll
get a call about a problem.)

My main problems with the UI are that

1) some important configurability has been removed (e.g., File Types),

2) some UIs are unnecessarily redundant (e.g., folder permissions' initial
display dialogs),

3) some reduce accessibility (e.g., Sound's "hidden" inactive devices),

4) or remove functionality (e.g., Backup), and

5) what is worst, IMHO, is the mis-synchronization that is possible between
Explorer's folder and contents panes, and the fact that you have to hit F5
to be sure you're seeing a folder's contents accurately.

That all said... I don't disagree with the gist of your post. I guess if
you're going to have to support your customers then you might consider,
especially when it comes to the UI, learning how to get around in Vista so
you can help your customers. Best of luck!

It's not me that I'm worried about: /they're/ the ones who'll have to spend
a lot of time relearning a visual "language" with which they've finally
become comfortable. Personally, I think it'll be worth it -- once the bugs
are worked out and some third-party publishes software that'll let me
configure things that used to be readily available before. Until then, I am
/sooooo/ grateful that Remote Desktop and VPN still work! I don't have to
answer a lot of questions over the phone. I can just fix it or demonstrate
it for them.

But I appreciate your comments.