FAT32 vs NTFS file size

[Woodchuck]

I'm this has been asked many times before but I can't find an answer. I
noticed file size is limited to 4gig when HD is formatted to FAT32. What is
the file size limit for NFTS? And can a drive with data be converted... and
how? The reason I ask is I have drive "D" reserved for video editing
projects and the 4gig limit is only good for about 17 minutes of video
capture.

Thanks

 

[DeepOne]

I'm this has been asked many times before but I can't find an answer. I
noticed file size is limited to 4gig when HD is formatted to FAT32. What is
the file size limit for NFTS? And can a drive with data be converted... and
how? The reason I ask is I have drive "D" reserved for video editing
projects and the 4gig limit is only good for about 17 minutes of video
capture.

Most capture programs (at least, all the ones I've used) will allow
you to split your captures into multiple files to avoid the 4GB limit
with FAT32.

I don't know what the limit is with NTFS, but it's not something with
which you'll need to be concerned (i.e. I think it's really huge). I
believe Windows XP has a utility for converting FAT32 partitions to
NTFS, but I've never tried it.

 

[Al Dykes]

I'm this has been asked many times before but I can't find an answer. I
noticed file size is limited to 4gig when HD is formatted to FAT32. What is
the file size limit for NFTS? And can a drive with data be converted... and
how? The reason I ask is I have drive "D" reserved for video editing
projects and the 4gig limit is only good for about 17 minutes of video
capture.

Thanks

4GB limit for FAT32 doesn't sound right.

NTFS file system limits are in the terrabytes (1000's of billions)
unless it's the boot partition. The boot partition has some limit that
increases with each generation of BIOS software. I've heard that with
the latest hardware and XP patches it's 137 GB but people others
probably have more information about this.

Assuming you are running XP use the CONVERT command to change a file
system from FAT32 to NTFS.

If you have a huge disk make the C drive 16GB and the remainder of the
disk a big partition for your files. All NTFS, of course.

 

[Andrew Rossmann]

[This followup was posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage and a copy
was sent to the cited author.]

I'm this has been asked many times before but I can't find an answer. I
noticed file size is limited to 4gig when HD is formatted to FAT32. What is
the file size limit for NFTS? And can a drive with data be converted... and
how? The reason I ask is I have drive "D" reserved for video editing
projects and the 4gig limit is only good for about 17 minutes of video
capture.

The 4G limit with all versions of FAT (12, 16 or 32-bit) is due to it's
32-bit file size value used in the directory.

NTFS uses a larger value, with a theoretical maximum file size of 2^64 -
1K bytes (but only 2^44 - 64K = 17,592,186,044,352 [about 17TB?] as
currently implemented.) The theoretical maximum volume size is 2^64
clusters, with 2^32 clusters as currently implemented. That's 4G * 512
bytes = 2,199,023,255,552 (2TB). I'm guessing 64-bit versions of Windows
could handle the theoretical sizes.

To convert FAT to NTFS, you must be running NT/2K/XP. You can do it with
this from a command line (or Start/Run):
CONVERT x: /FS:NTFS (where x: is the drive letter to convert)

You may need to reboot so it can convert during bootup if there are open
files on that drive letter.

Be aware that some programs may use 32-bit math internally, and may
still be limited to 4G. Also, I thought AVI files were also limited to 4G?

 

[J.Clarke]

On 27 Dec 2003 08:53:08 -0500

4GB limit for FAT32 doesn't sound right.

It is a well known and well established limit.

<http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;93496>,
<http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/reskit/en-us/default.asp
?url=/windows2000/techinfo/reskit/en-us/prork/prdf_fls_pxjh.asp>

This has been a thorn in the side of video editors for a long time and
its alleviation is one of the major benefits of NTFS.

NTFS file system limits are in the terrabytes (1000's of billions)
unless it's the boot partition. The boot partition has some limit that
increases with each generation of BIOS software. I've heard that with
the latest hardware and XP patches it's 137 GB but people others
probably have more information about this.

The design limit in NTFS is 2^64 bytes, which is up in the exabytes
(billions of billions) IIRC. There are practical limits however based
on the limitations of the hardware and device drivers available that are
somewhat lower.

Assuming you are running XP use the CONVERT command to change a file
system from FAT32 to NTFS.

If you have a huge disk make the C drive 16GB and the remainder of the
disk a big partition for your files. All NTFS, of course.

Why do that?

 

[Woodchuck]

Should have included more so here goes, I'm running XPhome and 40g HD C; is
FAT32. The only purpose I have the second 60g HD is for is space to store
stuff and do my video projects. If I convert the second HD to NTFS will I
loose any data on that drive? Is NFTS more efficient as to cluster sizes? My
C: drive only has 10g left and I know I don't have much on it! I clean all
the temp files regulatory. This brings up another subject, is there any
software that cleans out all old or unused program files which are no longer
used after a program is removed.

I'm researching if Pinnacle Studio can take advantage of NFTS

 

[ted msn]

Why do that?

one reason is if the OS goes bad all the data files are "safe" on the other
partition
you could even put the swap file on another smaller pattition so it does not
get fragmented, a separate disk/controller would be better but it all
depends how much swap file is used in practice on your system

If the disk goes bad then....

regards
ted

 

[J.Clarke]

one reason is if the OS goes bad all the data files are "safe" on the
other partition

That's true but I wouldn't make the C drive quite that small myself.

you could even put the swap file on another smaller pattition so it
does not get fragmented,

Doesn't help that much--just longer seeks from the swap file partitition
to the data and OS partitions.

a separate disk/controller would be better
but it all depends how much swap file is used in practice on your
system

If the disk goes bad then....

regards
ted

 

[Andrew Rossmann]

Should have included more so here goes, I'm running XPhome and 40g HD C; is
FAT32. The only purpose I have the second 60g HD is for is space to store
stuff and do my video projects. If I convert the second HD to NTFS will I
loose any data on that drive? Is NFTS more efficient as to cluster sizes? My
C: drive only has 10g left and I know I don't have much on it! I clean all
the temp files regulatory. This brings up another subject, is there any
software that cleans out all old or unused program files which are no longer
used after a program is removed.

I'm researching if Pinnacle Studio can take advantage of NFTS

The conversion is not supposed to lose data, but you should back up
anything important, just in case.

The problem with CONVERT is that it sometimes gives you 0.5K clusters.
It depends on how certain data structures are positioned. Partition Magic
is supposed to have an option that rearranges things to make the normal 4K
clusters happen. BTW, I don't think PM does FAT to NTFS conversion itself.
It just sets a command for the computer to run it's own CONVERT on a
reboot.

The safest way to guarantee a certain cluster size is to do a normal
FORMAT, which means wiping out your data. If you do it from Explorer or
Disk Management, you can set the format (FAT or NTFS), and for NTFS, the
cluster size from a drop-down list. From a command line, you can do it
this way:
FORMAT x: /FS:NTFS /A:4096 (creates 4K clusters. Use FORMAT /?|more for
all available sizes)

For most drive sizes, NTFS will default to 4K. If you plan on mostly
large files in that partition, you could go with larger clusters, up to
64K, to help reduce fragmentation.

 

[rstlne]

4GB limit for FAT32 doesn't sound right.

It is a well known and well established limit.

<http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;93496>,
<http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/reskit/en-us/default.asp
?url=/windows2000/techinfo/reskit/en-us/prork/prdf_fls_pxjh.asp>

This has been a thorn in the side of video editors for a long time and
its alleviation is one of the major benefits of NTFS.

Hate to mention this
but why dont you go read one of the links you posted
FAT and FAT32 are different
Here is a quote
"
File System Max. Partition Size Max. File Size

 

[DeepOne]

[snip]

Also, I thought AVI files were also limited to 4G?

I've captured and processed DV AVI files far in excess of that (over
30GB). If there is such a limitation, perhaps it's with playing large
AVI files with older versions of Media Player (or something like
that).

 

[J.Clarke]

Hate to mention this
but why dont you go read one of the links you posted
FAT and FAT32 are different
Here is a quote
"
File System Max. Partition Size Max. File Size
--------------------------------------------------
FAT 2^32 2^32
NTFS 2^64 2^64
FAT32 32 GB 2^32
"

I'm a bit puzzled. What is it about that quotation that leads you to
believe that the file size limits for FAT and FAT32 are different? Are
you perhaps mistaking the partition size limit for the file size limit?
Or are you simply unaware that 2^32 = 2^32?

 

[rstlne]

I'm a bit puzzled. What is it about that quotation that leads you to

believe that the file size limits for FAT and FAT32 are different? Are
you perhaps mistaking the partition size limit for the file size limit?
Or are you simply unaware that 2^32 = 2^32?

Apologies, I read the post previous to yours wrong and took it as tho the
reader was unable to get a driver larger than 4 gig to work on his fat32
partition..

sorry

 

[Eric Gisin]

Nope, under DOS based Windows FAT16 volumes can be 2GB and FAT32 can be
128GB. Under Win 2K+/XP the limits are higher. The volume size for NTFS is
too high, more like 64KB*2^32.

 

[ted msn]

[snip]

Also, I thought AVI files were also limited to 4G?

I've captured and processed DV AVI files far in excess of that (over
30GB). If there is such a limitation, perhaps it's with playing large
AVI files with older versions of Media Player (or something like
that).

There are two specs for AVI files version 1 and 2.
Version 1 has an inbuilt limit of 4G, version 2 is file system limited,
version 1 may be limited by the file system/application to a smaller size.

regards
ted

 

[Woodchuck]

I did the reformat of the complete 60g drive and then did a Pinnacle Studio
8 avi which was about 15g. This makes capture a lot easier versus having the
4g limit.

[snip]

Also, I thought AVI files were also limited to 4G?

I've captured and processed DV AVI files far in excess of that (over
30GB). If there is such a limitation, perhaps it's with playing large
AVI files with older versions of Media Player (or something like
that).

There are two specs for AVI files version 1 and 2.
Version 1 has an inbuilt limit of 4G, version 2 is file system limited,
version 1 may be limited by the file system/application to a smaller size.

regards
ted

 

[Andrew Rossmann]

Nope, under DOS based Windows FAT16 volumes can be 2GB and FAT32 can be
128GB. Under Win 2K+/XP the limits are higher. The volume size for NTFS is
too high, more like 64KB*2^32.

You can go up to FAT16@4G (64K clusters) with DOS/Win9x/ME, although it
is not officially supported. Only NT/2K/XP officially support that
combination. In fact, you can be bigger than 4G, if your sector sizes are
bigger than the standard 512 bytes.

 

[Aloke Prasad]

That indicates that there are no file size limitations associated with AVI
Type 1 or 2. The limit must depend on the disk format only.

Microsoft Movie Maker 2 uses AVI type 1. I have captured 12 gig files on my
NTFS drives using this.

Studio 8 uses AVI type 2 and you just captured a 15 gig file (on NTFS
volume) using that..

--
Aloke
----
to reply by e-mail remove 123 and change invalid to com

I did the reformat of the complete 60g drive and then did a Pinnacle Studio
8 avi which was about 15g. This makes capture a lot easier versus having the
4g limit.

size.