En and Em Dashes

[Uriel]

I'm puzzled about the workings in Word 2003, at
Tools:AutoCorrect:AutoFormat-As-You-Type, of the "Hyphens with dash" option.

Word's help says: "When you type a space and one or two hyphens between
text, Microsoft Word automatically inserts an en dash ( - ). If you type two
hyphens and do not include a space before the hyphens, then an em dash ( - )
is created."

Does this reflect any kind of conventional distinction between en and em
dashes in the world outside Word?

Why not give the user the choice of which dash he prefers?

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

You do get the choice of the dash you prefer; you must just enter the
correct characters to get it. What MS has provided here is an easy way to
enter en and em dashes in the way they are most commonly used in
(respectively) the U.K. and the U.S. In the U.K., it is convention to use an
en dash with spaces fore and aft in the way that we in the U.S. use an em
dash with no spaces.

Other uses of the en dash (which are common to both user bases) require
entering the en dash manually, which you can do with Word's built-in
keyboard shortcuts or others that you assign. Long before Word had these
built-in shortcuts or the AutoFormat option, I assigned my own keyboard
shortcuts to em and en dashes and en and em spaces, and they have become so
natural to me that I use them without thinking.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

 

[Uriel]

What MS has provided here is an easy way to enter en and em dashes in the

way they are most commonly used in (respectively) the U.K. and the U.S....
Other uses of the en dash (which are common to both user bases) require
entering the en [or em] dash manually

As long as MS is providing an Autoformat option for dashes, why not serve
everyone?? (Personally I prefer em dashes with spaces.) It'd be as easy as
having an additional option on the Tools:AutoCorrect:AutoFormat-As-You-Type
dialogue. Instead of using the spaces kludge to pack two meanings into the
single "Hyphens with dash" option (whose workings no one could guess without
referencing the Help), they could have "Hyphens with en dash" AND "Hyphens
with em dash".

It's true that ALT+CTRL+MINUS SIGN is no big deal, and I'll keep using that.
But I wasted time exploring the false promise of AutoFormat. If they offer
an option at all, I wish they'd implement it properly.

You do get the choice of the dash you prefer; you must just enter the
correct characters to get it. What MS has provided here is an easy way to
enter en and em dashes in the way they are most commonly used in
(respectively) the U.K. and the U.S. In the U.K., it is convention to use an
en dash with spaces fore and aft in the way that we in the U.S. use an em
dash with no spaces.

Other uses of the en dash (which are common to both user bases) require
entering the en dash manually, which you can do with Word's built-in
keyboard shortcuts or others that you assign. Long before Word had these
built-in shortcuts or the AutoFormat option, I assigned my own keyboard
shortcuts to em and en dashes and en and em spaces, and they have become so
natural to me that I use them without thinking.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

 

[Guest]

Suzanne:

I have tried every combination under the sun for "AutoFormat" and
"AutoFormat as you Type" and no matter what, if I press -- twice, all I get
is --. It doesn't matter if I have the "Hyphens with dash" checked or not.
I cannot get the em-dash symbol unless I use Alt+Ctrl+Minus sign or Alt+0151
on the numeric pad. I have heard this same complaint from many others. Does
it really work for anyone? What other settings do I need to be aware of?
Thanks very much.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

-- isn't supposed to turn into an em dash. "Word--next" is supposed to turn
the two hyphens into an em dash *after* you type a space or punctuation
after the "next". It only converts two hyphens between two words into an em
dash.

You can create your own AutoCorrect entry (Tools | AutoCorrect) to change --
immediately into an em dash.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

The AutoFormat doesn't fire until you finish the following word. Type
word--word, and when you press the spacebar (or type punctuation) after the
second word, the hyphens will be converted.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

 

[Guest]

Diaya:

You can create your own AutoCorrect entry (Tools | AutoCorrect) to change --
immediately into an em dash.

You're absolutely right! I didn't realize that. Thanks very much.


Stu

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Glad to help. I had to set one up myself as it was driving me crazy when I
went back and edited.