Elementary Question about HD Back-Ups

[Rod Speed]

I beg to differ with you, but I'm using Drive Image 7 right here on this machine, and it
is the v2i product,

No it isnt.

and if I hit Ctrl-Alt-Delete, PQIV2isvc.exe is a running process.

Thats a subset of the V2i product.

 

[J. Clarke]

It was actually the PowerQuest V2i product that
Symantec renamed to Ghost 9, not Drive Image.

Well then what is the product that they are selling as "Livestate recovery"?

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Well then what is the product that they are selling as "Livestate recovery"?
Dunno.

 

[M.I.5¾]

It means that if the hard drive dies, you need something
to get what is on the external HD onto the new HD.

[SNIP]


If you only have the one PC or laptop, and the hard
drive dies, you need some way to get what is on the
external HD onto the replacement HD.

This seems like an overly obvious question, but wouldn't the external
HD, connected to the ThinkPad with a USB 2.0, be as good as a CD or
floppy to accomplish this?

When the hard drive on a computer dies and is replaced by a new one - all
that you get when you restart the machine is "Operating System Not found".
The computer needs an operating system to run - if there isn't one on the
hard disk (which there won't be for a brand new drive) then you have to
give it some other media to boot from, eg a floppy or a cd.

Now if you image copy the original hard drive to another (whilst the
original is still working) - and the original hard drive fails - no
problem. Stick the other hard drive in its place and switch on. The other
hard drive will boot and away you go.

This won't work if the image drive doesn't have a master boot record (and
the image programs don't copy these onto the target drive). You would have
to insert the replacement disk and then write an MBR using the recovery
console from the Windows installation CD.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote:

It means that if the hard drive dies, you need something
to get what is on the external HD onto the new HD.


[SNIP]


If you only have the one PC or laptop, and the hard
drive dies, you need some way to get what is on the
external HD onto the replacement HD.


This seems like an overly obvious question, but wouldn't the
external HD, connected to the ThinkPad with a USB 2.0, be as good
as a CD or floppy to accomplish this?

When the hard drive on a computer dies and is replaced by a new one
- all that you get when you restart the machine is "Operating System
Not found". The computer needs an operating system to run - if there
isn't one on the hard disk (which there won't be for a brand new
drive) then you have to give it some other media to boot from, eg a
floppy or a cd. Now if you image copy the original hard drive to another (whilst the
original is still working) - and the original hard drive fails - no
problem. Stick the other hard drive in its place and switch on. The
other hard drive will boot and away you go.

This won't work if the image drive doesn't have a master boot record
(and the image programs don't copy these onto the target drive).

That last bit in brackets is just plain wrong.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

It means that if the hard drive dies, you need something
to get what is on the external HD onto the new HD.


[SNIP]


If you only have the one PC or laptop, and the hard
drive dies, you need some way to get what is on the
external HD onto the replacement HD.


This seems like an overly obvious question, but wouldn't the
external HD, connected to the ThinkPad with a USB 2.0, be as good
as a CD or floppy to accomplish this?


When the hard drive on a computer dies and is replaced by a new one
- all that you get when you restart the machine is "Operating System
Not found". The computer needs an operating system to run - if there
isn't one on the hard disk (which there won't be for a brand new
drive) then you have to give it some other media to boot from, eg a
floppy or a cd. Now if you image copy the original hard drive to another (whilst the
original is still working) - and the original hard drive fails - no
problem. Stick the other hard drive in its place and switch on. The
other hard drive will boot and away you go.

This won't work *if* the image drive doesn't have a master boot record
(and the image programs don't copy these onto the target drive).

That last bit in brackets is just plain wrong.

*If* Wodleypoo, *IF*.

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

It means that if the hard drive dies, you need something
to get what is on the external HD onto the new HD.


[SNIP]


If you only have the one PC or laptop, and the hard
drive dies, you need some way to get what is on the
external HD onto the replacement HD.


This seems like an overly obvious question, but wouldn't the
external HD, connected to the ThinkPad with a USB 2.0, be as good
as a CD or floppy to accomplish this?


When the hard drive on a computer dies and is replaced by a new one
- all that you get when you restart the machine is "Operating
System
Not found". The computer needs an operating system to run - if
there
isn't one on the hard disk (which there won't be for a brand new
drive) then you have to give it some other media to boot from, eg a
floppy or a cd. Now if you image copy the original hard drive to
another (whilst the original is still working) - and the original
hard drive fails - no
problem. Stick the other hard drive in its place and switch on. The
other hard drive will boot and away you go.


This won't work *if* the image drive doesn't have a master boot
record (and the image programs don't copy these onto the target
drive).

That last bit in brackets is just plain wrong.

*If* Wodleypoo, *IF*.

There aint no IF in the brackets, ****wit.

 

[M.I.5¾]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

It means that if the hard drive dies, you need something
to get what is on the external HD onto the new HD.


[SNIP]


If you only have the one PC or laptop, and the hard
drive dies, you need some way to get what is on the
external HD onto the replacement HD.


This seems like an overly obvious question, but wouldn't the
external HD, connected to the ThinkPad with a USB 2.0, be as good
as a CD or floppy to accomplish this?


When the hard drive on a computer dies and is replaced by a new one
- all that you get when you restart the machine is "Operating System
Not found". The computer needs an operating system to run - if there
isn't one on the hard disk (which there won't be for a brand new
drive) then you have to give it some other media to boot from, eg a
floppy or a cd. Now if you image copy the original hard drive to another
(whilst the
original is still working) - and the original hard drive fails - no
problem. Stick the other hard drive in its place and switch on. The
other hard drive will boot and away you go.

This won't work if the image drive doesn't have a master boot record
(and the image programs don't copy these onto the target drive).

That last bit in brackets is just plain wrong.

TrueImage certainly doesn't, so my comment stands. That makes you pkain
wrong.

 

[Rod Speed]

TrueImage certainly doesn't,

Wrong. If it didnt, you couldnt use it to clone an existing
drive to a new drive and boot from that new hard drive.

so my comment stands.

Wrong again, its flat on its face in the mud.

And even someone as stupid as you should have
noticed that TI aint the only imager around.

That makes you pkain wrong.

Wrong, as always.

 

[M.I.5¾]

Wrong. If it didnt, you couldnt use it to clone an existing
drive to a new drive and boot from that new hard drive.

Last time I tried with my copy of TrueImage (8), it did not write an MBR. I
had to write that myself. I see no reason why my copy should be different
to anybody elses.

 

[Rod Speed]

Last time I tried with my copy of TrueImage (8), it did not write an MBR.

You must have ****ed something up. I cloned plenty
of boot drives with TI8 and they all worked fine.

I had to write that myself.

No you didnt.

I see no reason why my copy should be different to anybody elses.

It isnt, you just ****ed it up.

And even someone as stupid as you should have
noticed that TI8 aint the only imager around.

 

[M.I.5¾]

You must have ****ed something up. I cloned plenty
of boot drives with TI8 and they all worked fine.


No you didnt.


It isnt, you just ****ed it up.

And even someone as stupid as you should have
noticed that TI8 aint the only imager around.

If you're going to be abusive then you can just **** off.

Kill filed.

 

[Anna]

I have always been confused about the use of the term "back up." Boot
disks provided with new computers seemed to make system back-ups
redundant, even though nearly everyone I know has at least two copies
of boot disks in addition to the factory manufacturer's. I could never
understand this.

As far as mirror-image personalized back ups are concerned, I was told
yesterday by two IBM customer service/tech support/(maybe both)
representatives that I have to download a huge file called Rescue and
Recovery onto my teentsie-weentsie 20G HD in order to make mirror
images.

I asked if the Windows-based HD back up "service," on the hardware
maintenance file (with Error Checking and Defrag) wouldn't provide a
mirror image. They both said No.

But I made one anyway, onto an external HD. At the end of this back
up, a message came up saying that unless I created a floppy disk, the
process was useless/worthless.

So 1) DO you need additional software to make mirror image back-ups?
2) Do you also need to create the back up on a floppy disk (or CD)?

Thank you.

mutefan:
I guess the above is your original query, yes?

I notice quite a number of responses to your query but I'm not certain
whether the rather conflicting information provided has provided you with
the information you're seeking.

When all is said & done I take it (like many PC users) what you're really
interested in is a reliable and effective backup system. So that in the
event of the failure of your day-to-day working HD for one reason or
another, you will have at hand a working, bootable copy of that HD. Isn't
that your basic objective?

If it is...

Then you should give serious consideration to employing a disk imaging
program, e.g., Symantec's Norton Ghost, Acronis True Image, etc. to
*directly* clone the contents of your working HD to another HD, either
internal or external. The process is simple, straightforward, reasonably
quick, and most of all - effective. There is nothing mysterious or exotic
about this process. By directly cloning the contents of your working HD to
another HD, you will have (for all practical purposes) a duplicate of your
source disk including the OS, all your programs and created data - in short,
everything that's on your source drive. What could be better for restoration
purposes and a near-failsafe backup system?

If your destination drive - the recipient of the clone - is another internal
HD, then that drive will be bootable. If the recipient of the clone is a
USB/Firewire external HD, it will not be bootable, but you can clone back
the contents of that external HD to the internal HD for restoration
purposes.

The program I generally use is the Ghost one - the 2003 version which I
prefer over the later Symantec versions 9 & 10 because I find it simpler to
use and just as effective in an XP environment. I've been using that version
of the Ghost program for the past four years and have probably undertaken
close to a thousand cloning operations with it. I've also been using the
Acronis program as of late - the version 8 and now the version 9 program and
I find that program quite effective as well.
Anna

 

[Oscar Jones]

If you're going to be abusive then you can just **** off.

Kill filed.

I'll **** you over instead, child.

 

[Rod Speed]

mutefan:
I guess the above is your original query, yes?

I notice quite a number of responses to your query but I'm not certain
whether the rather conflicting information provided has provided you
with the information you're seeking.

When all is said & done I take it (like many PC users) what you're
really interested in is a reliable and effective backup system. So
that in the event of the failure of your day-to-day working HD for
one reason or another, you will have at hand a working, bootable copy
of that HD. Isn't that your basic objective?

If it is...

Then you should give serious consideration to employing a disk imaging program, e.g.,
Symantec's Norton Ghost, Acronis True Image, etc. to *directly* clone the contents of
your working HD to another HD, either internal or external. The process is simple,
straightforward, reasonably quick, and most of all - effective.

It makes a lot more sense to image instead of clone.

That way you get to keep more than a single copy and
you have much more flexibility with what you image to
and get to do incremental and differential images too.

There is nothing mysterious or exotic about this process. By directly cloning the
contents of your working HD to another HD, you will have (for all practical purposes) a
duplicate of your source disk including the OS, all your programs and created data - in
short, everything that's on your source drive. What could be better for restoration
purposes and a near-failsafe backup system?

More than one image, with much more
flexibility with where the images can be.

If your destination drive - the recipient of the clone - is another internal HD, then
that drive will be bootable.

But that approach doesnt protect you against a number
of significant risks, theft of that PC, fire, flood, or even
just power supply failure which takes out both drives.

If the recipient of the clone is a USB/Firewire external HD, it will not be bootable,
but you can clone back the contents of that external HD to the internal HD for
restoration purposes.

If you're going to clone it back on source drive failure,
you're a LOT better off using images rather than clones,
because that way you can keep more than one copy,
and can do incremental and differential images too.

The program I generally use is the Ghost one - the 2003 version which
I prefer over the later Symantec versions 9 & 10 because I find it
simpler to use and just as effective in an XP environment.

It isnt, it cant do an incremental or differential image, and the
support for imaging over the lan to one of the other drives on
the lan is pathetic when compared with a more modern imager.

I've been using that version of the Ghost program for the past four years and
have probably undertaken close to a thousand cloning operations with it.

And if the clone operation fails, it can leave the system in an unbootable
state, which means its very undesirable for the less experience users.

And its FAR too easy to clone backwards and lose everything irrecoverably.

I've also been using the Acronis program as of late - the version 8 and now the version
9 program and I find that program quite effective as well.

And its a hell of a lot better for imaging over the lan than Ghost 2003 is,
and can do incremental and differential images and file level imaging too.

 

[Neil Maxwell]

Last time I tried with my copy of TrueImage (8), it did not write an MBR. I
had to write that myself. I see no reason why my copy should be different
to anybody elses.

I'm not sure of the details of your problems, but I've restored many
images to unbootable hard drives with TI7, 8, and 9, and have never
had to write an MBR.

They come right up on reboot, running exactly how the system was
running when it was imaged, unless I've changed the partition size on
the target HD. Even then, TI handles everything.

Maybe I'm not understanding your concern.