DX10 AGP?

[boe]

I'm stoked that ATI have finally released good AGP video cards - problem is
they released them so close to the release of Vista, I'm considering waiting
to see if they'll make DX10 AGP cards. Any solid rumors?

 

[NewMan]

From my past experience, your concern is quite justified!

I used to have an ATI Rage IIc. Under Win98se this had a great driver
with all kinds of oprions and modes. I usually ran 32 bit colour and
1024 x 768.

When we upgraded to WinXP, the only resolution available as 800 x
600??? WTF!

Went to the ATI website for an updated driver......

"Driver is included with WinXP click here... www.mircosoft.com ...."

Gee, thanks for NOTHING!

SO I upgraded our video cards.... to nVIDIA!

I would not be surprized if ATI pulls a fast one and leaves you
standing at the curb on DX10 for AGP. They have done this kind of crap
before. The main problem is that there likely wont be a next
generation of AGP cards! Everyone seems to be pushing PCI-E, and AGP
is phasing out. So in this case ATIs lack of support could translate
into you having to buy a new computer!

Time will tell, but I would not hold my breath - if past hyjinx are
any indication of things to come from ATI! (Who do they think they
are? MicroSoft???)

 

[boe]

I know nVidia has a low end one coming out around April. However now that
x1900 units are out from ATI in AGP and nVidia actually released a high end
AGP unit, I have hopes they will make a high end AGP unit - however it took
them about 2 years to get back into the high end AGP market. Hopefully
they'll do the same with AGP DX10 much faster this time.

 

[DaveW]

I do not believe that there are any plans for DX 10 AGP cards.

 

[First of One]

At some point you will have to ditch your AGP system. The DX10 games in
development like Crysis, UT2007, etc. probably won't run smoothly with your
current CPU.

 

[boe]

I'm not sure about that one but I have yet to see a single DX9 game - FEAR,
WOW, HL2, PREY, etc that even begins to tap the processor - never seen it
exceed 25%. The only bottleneck is the video card- I replaced my old one a
while back with the x850 and it ran very well, then I borrowed an AGP 1900
and it ran GREAT! I don't want to buy the 1900 in hopes that a DX10 will
come out. Not many games really require a lot of processing power. The
only time I've seen my processor max is on video conversion. I have fast
drives and 2 gigs so the only bottleneck is the video.

 

[Alan Jones]

From my past experience, your concern is quite justified!

I used to have an ATI Rage IIc. Under Win98se this had a great driver
with all kinds of oprions and modes. I usually ran 32 bit colour and
1024 x 768.

When we upgraded to WinXP, the only resolution available as 800 x
600??? WTF!

Went to the ATI website for an updated driver......

"Driver is included with WinXP click here... www.mircosoft.com ...."

Gee, thanks for NOTHING!

SO I upgraded our video cards.... to nVIDIA!

I would not be surprized if ATI pulls a fast one and leaves you
standing at the curb on DX10 for AGP. They have done this kind of crap
before. The main problem is that there likely wont be a next
generation of AGP cards! Everyone seems to be pushing PCI-E, and AGP
is phasing out. So in this case ATIs lack of support could translate
into you having to buy a new computer!

Time will tell, but I would not hold my breath - if past hyjinx are
any indication of things to come from ATI! (Who do they think they
are? MicroSoft???)

Windows 98SE and Linux will work with an old ISA video card. Not so
with W2k and beyond. Microsoft is evil, ATI/AMD is just trying to run
a business. I see no reason to upgrade to Vista, or DX10, but I'm
certain Microsoft will find a way to force the issue.

 

[Guest]

Windows 98SE and Linux will work with an old ISA video card. Not so
with W2k and beyond. Microsoft is evil, ATI/AMD is just trying to run
a business. I see no reason to upgrade to Vista, or DX10, but I'm
certain Microsoft will find a way to force the issue.

That's an undeserved knock at MS IMO. I've been running the
exact same installation of Win2K for nearly 7 years now, it's still
nicely supported and I can still run DX games all the way back
to DX5 on my AGP system.

 

[Captain Midnight]

That's an undeserved knock at MS IMO. I've been running the
exact same installation of Win2K for nearly 7 years now, it's still
nicely supported and I can still run DX games all the way back
to DX5 on my AGP system.

I'm not a big M$ fan but why anyone would want to pay for an O/S that
provides support for something <1% of buyers would use is beyond me. Maybe
we should pay for punch card reader support too.

 

[First of One]

Tried Flight Simulator X lately? It'll bring your CPU to its knees at
higher-quality settings.

The Unreal Engine games typically are CPU-limited. HL2 when it first came
out was CPU-limited as well.

 

[boe]

I have run all the version of unreal and they fly - less than 25% of CPU.
HL2 had plenty of CPU to spare but I don't recall the exact amount. Haven't
tried Flight sim - frankly not my type of game so I couldn't comment. All
I can say is every single top FPS game works plenty well on my system with a
good video card. If you've got 3GHz of P4 power, you really shouldn't need
to buy a new CPU. I do have a new PC as well with a Core 2 2.6 and yes -
for video processing it flys compared to my old computer but otherwise
nothing else justifies the new CPU.

 

[JamesH]

Isn't AGP like trying to get a dead horse to respond to commands? Life goes
on let's bury the dead....

 

[boe]

No, it is much more like trying to explain to a spoiled brat that just
because the car has a flat tire doesn't mean you need to replace the whole
car.

 

[Guest]

AGP doomsayers have been at it for over three years now.
Meanwhile my 3.6GHz P4/Gainward 7800GS+ plays
everything I throw at it beautifully, with all eye candy at max.
I won't be upgrading to PCI-E for at least another year or two.

 

[First of One]

You are not throwing enough at it, simple as that. For example, Oblivion
with HDR + 4x AA (which your card can't even do) requires an X1900XT to
approach smooth framerates. Newer games like Rainbow Six Vegas will stress
even the 8800GTS at the highest settings.

Back to the original discussion. It's important to note that *ATi* did not
release a good AGP card (X1950 Pro). Second-tier board partners like
Powercolor and Sapphire took this upon themselves.

 

[Guest]

You are not throwing enough at it, simple as that. For example, Oblivion
with HDR + 4x AA (which your card can't even do) requires an X1900XT

I play Oblivion all the time at HDR + 4xAA. In fact that game
was the primary reason I sprung for the upgrade from my 9700
Pro. You must be confusing the 7800GS+ with the far more
common GS.

 

[First of One]

You must be hallucinating. The Geforce 7-series architecture is
fundamentally incapable of doing FP16-blend HDR simultaneously with AA, be
it a 7800GS+, 7800GS, or 7900GTX. This isn't something that can be altered
by a PCB revision.

Yes, I know what the 7800GS+ is: a 512 MB 7900GT piped through the HSI AGP
bridge. An NVSilencer helps with overclocking, but it still doesn't make the
card anything more than a 7900GT. With the release of the X1950 Pro AGP
there really isn't a reason to get a 7800GS+ anymore.

 

[Guest]

I just checked my settings and yes you're correct. Forgot I'm
running at 1280x1024 with HDR and no AA. The game looks
so good at that res I don't miss the AA.

 

[GT-Force]

Looks like the new RTSs are pushing the CPUs to their limits. I have a P4
2.53 and 6800 GT, and Supreme Commander Demo brought my computer to its
knees. Must be the sheer number of units, or the enhanced AI, actually,
probably both. Also, don't forget better physics in the new line of games,
which is another CPU-hog.

I can't wait to get my new system. I used to upgrade every two years, and
with my current system, it's been more than 4 years (a record!) with memory
and HDD additions and and a GPU change. But that's about what I could do to
keep it alive. It is time to say good bye to this old guy, and hello to a
new friend

GT

 

[boe]

Are you sure it is the processor - granted your processor is below what I
would recommend - for some reason going to 2.8 HT and beyond makes a big
difference but your video card is really low level- far far far below
acceptable - you might just try borrowing a friends video card and see if
that helps. I'm not familiar with Supreme Commander so I can't comment on
processor vs. video processor requirements. I can however state that your
video card can't really do much well with any new game that is video
graphics intense.