Drive Problem with Win2K

[Citizen Bob]

My son gave me an older XP NTFS-formatted Seagate 20 GB drive for
storage. He says it mounts just fine on his XP system. I put it on ch.
0 slave with CS and fire up Win2K, which then hangs as it attempts to
mount the drive. The BIOS reports the correct drive designation.

What's going on here? Why should mounting a known good drive be such a
bloody hassle.

 

[kony]

My son gave me an older XP NTFS-formatted Seagate 20 GB drive for
storage. He says it mounts just fine on his XP system. I put it on ch.
0 slave with CS and fire up Win2K, which then hangs as it attempts to
mount the drive. The BIOS reports the correct drive designation.

What's going on here? Why should mounting a known good drive be such a
bloody hassle.

Do you have a Western Digital or other drive that needs a
different single vs master w/slave jumper setting, as ch. 0
Master?

What does Disk Management show?

 

[Citizen Bob]

Do you have a Western Digital or other drive that needs a
different single vs master w/slave jumper setting, as ch. 0
Master?

The boot disk is WD, but I do not understand what you mean by needing
a different single vs master w/slave jumper setting. I use CS for all
my drives and they all work.

What does Disk Management show?

Win2K won't boot - it locks up - so I can't find out.

 

[Gerry_uk]

Hi,

If the two drives are from different era's it's possible there's a
signal conflict when you have them on the same cable?

I had a problem with a Dell computer recently where I had to set very
specific master/slave jumpers and check UDMA specs before I could get
both drives to work together. Make sure the cables are the correct spec
too (IDE vs UDMA).

Have you tried putting them on separate IDE controllers, two cables, one
master, one slave?

If it was me, I'd test both drives individually under DOS with NTFS and
UDMA drivers, then test together, and note any issues before trying to
boot Win2k.

 

[kony]

The boot disk is WD, but I do not understand what you mean by needing
a different single vs master w/slave jumper setting. I use CS for all
my drives and they all work.

I thought you just wrote that they're not all working?
So maybe, CS works until you come across a special
situation- I don't know, it was just a simple thing to try
since it only takes a moment to change a jumper.

Win2K won't boot - it locks up - so I can't find out.

You might try connecting it to the other motherboard
channel, even disconnecting some other drive temporarily, if
necessary, just to confirm the drive still works (might have
been damaged in transit).

 

[Citizen Bob]

If the two drives are from different era's it's possible there's a
signal conflict when you have them on the same cable?

That's a bummer.

I had a problem with a Dell computer recently where I had to set very
specific master/slave jumpers and check UDMA specs before I could get
both drives to work together. Make sure the cables are the correct spec
too (IDE vs UDMA).

I have the latest official ATA-133 Cable Select 80-wire ribbon cable -
the kind that is keyed with a blue connector for the mainboard side of
IDE. I have never seen anything called "UDMA" explicitly.

Have you tried putting them on separate IDE controllers, two cables, one
master, one slave?

No, I did not try that because it defeats the purpose of my removable
drive bays. If I have to do that, I don't want the drive.

If it was me, I'd test both drives individually under DOS with NTFS and
UDMA drivers, then test together, and note any issues before trying to
boot Win2k.

My son is going to reformat it with FAT32. It might be that his XP/SP2
NTFS is not compatible with my Win2K/SP4 NTFS.

If the truth be known, I wish he would just throw that piece of shit
Seagate away. I despise Seagate. I guess having ST-120s (the very old
20 MB MFM drive of a bygonne era) stick all the time did it for me.

 

[Citizen Bob]

I thought you just wrote that they're not all working?

They are not working when I put the Seagate in. Otherwise they work
fine.

So maybe, CS works until you come across a special
situation- I don't know, it was just a simple thing to try
since it only takes a moment to change a jumper.

That would defeat my purpose of being able to put the drive in a
removable bay and mount it as either master or slave. I must have CS
or else I cannot use the drive.

You might try connecting it to the other motherboard
channel, even disconnecting some other drive temporarily, if
necessary, just to confirm the drive still works (might have
been damaged in transit).

Likewise putting it on another IDE channel defeats my purpose.

I did not spend much time with this because if it didn't work with the
configuration I connected it to, I could not use it.

 

[George Hester]

This is quite strange. For one you want to make sure both drives on that
channel are cable select. For another the fact the op sys hangs we need to
know when this happens. Does the machine ever get out of the POST? This is
usually an indication there is a loss of the op sys recognizing the new
hardware. That I suspect is the issue. If it works in XP then is should
work in Win2000. The NTFS version is different in XP than it is in Win2000
but automatically the Win2000 should set the File System to its version of
NTFS. I would just try again changinhg Master to last connection on Cable
(No Cable Select) and put the slave on the first connector (No Cable
Select). Try it and see it is not a major overhaul.

 

[Citizen Bob]

This is quite strange. For one you want to make sure both drives on that
channel are cable select.

I have no choice based on my setup. I have two removable drive bays,
one on ch.0 master and the other on ch.0 slave. I have no choice but
to implement CS - otherwise I would have to open the tray and change
the jumper everytime I switched drawers.

For another the fact the op sys hangs we need to
know when this happens. Does the machine ever get out of the POST?

I said Win2K hangs. It gets out of POST and reports the existence of
the drive. That tells me it is not a cable select problem.

This is
usually an indication there is a loss of the op sys recognizing the new
hardware. That I suspect is the issue.

Yes, I agree. Now, why is that the case? I got the drive from my son
and it works with XP.

If it works in XP then is should work in Win2000.

You would think so, but I thought I read where there is some
incompatibilty issue.

I would just try again changinhg Master to last connection on Cable
(No Cable Select) and put the slave on the first connector (No Cable
Select). Try it and see it is not a major overhaul.

I don't understand what you just said. I have said repeatedly that I
must implement CS on the IDE connection. I have no choice. I cannot
hard-wire master vs slave.

I'll bet the problem is that Win2K/SP4 does not have an appropriate
driver for that drive so it hangs. Seagate crap isn't worth the powder
to blow it to Hell, so I really don't want the piece of shit in my
computer to begin with. But my son offered it, and so I am obliged to
try it. Actually I am glad it does not work.

 

[George Hester]

Citizen we are not saying do it for good we are suggesting to try it once.
If it works fine then it may just be an issue with your "removable bay"
which is what I suspect. This issue has nothing to do with your op sys I
would put money on it. It is your hardware setup.

 

[George Hester]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:56:35 GMT, "George Hester"

I'll bet the problem is that Win2K/SP4 does not have an appropriate
driver for that drive so it hangs.

nope.

I have Seagates coming out my ears in Windows 2000 SP4. You know it may
just be the Drive Overlay. If that was used when installing the drive THAT
is your issue. Windows 2000 SP4 does NOT need the drive overlay. If it is
there you got problems and it will never work. You have to get rid of it
and a Format is NOT sufficient. I believe Seagate has the solution to get
it out but to tell you the truth once in the drive is cooked. On Win2000
anyway.

 

[Rod Speed]

I have no choice based on my setup. I have two removable drive bays,
one on ch.0 master and the other on ch.0 slave. I have no choice but
to implement CS - otherwise I would have to open the tray and change
the jumper everytime I switched drawers.

Try the drive directly connected, not using the removable drive bay.

It wouldnt be surprising if you are seeing one of the real downsides
with removable drive bays, they flout the ATA standard.

 

[kony]

I have no choice based on my setup. I have two removable drive bays,
one on ch.0 master and the other on ch.0 slave. I have no choice but
to implement CS - otherwise I would have to open the tray and change
the jumper everytime I switched drawers.

i don't think you understand.

It was obvious that is what you "wanted" to do, but since
that has been tried and doesn't work, what remains is to
find out of anything works (ignoring for the moment, what
you ultimately wanted to do). Towards that end, it might be
useful to know if the drives behave properly with the
traditional master/slave jumpering.

I said Win2K hangs. It gets out of POST and reports the existence of
the drive. That tells me it is not a cable select problem.

Not necessarily.

Yes, I agree. Now, why is that the case? I got the drive from my son
and it works with XP.

Son was not trying to do what you are, correct?
Set up the drive exactly as son did, see if it works like
that first before proceeding to something more advanced.
This quite specifically means not using any removable caddy
too, for the time being the only goal should be to see if
drive works under any circumstances at all.

You would think so, but I thought I read where there is some
incompatibilty issue.

.... and you want to keep this information a secret?

It should work.

I don't understand what you just said. I have said repeatedly that I
must implement CS on the IDE connection. I have no choice. I cannot
hard-wire master vs slave.

You don't seem to understand that for the moment it is
irrelevant what you want to do - first it needs to be
determined if the drive shows signs of life in any way,
shape or form, and if it does not, we have then ruled out
jumper settings and use of the removable caddy. Also,
connect it alone, without the other drive connected at all.

I'll bet the problem is that Win2K/SP4 does not have an appropriate
driver for that drive so it hangs.

No, IDE hardware is standardized and there is no driver
necessary.

Seagate crap isn't worth the powder
to blow it to Hell, so I really don't want the piece of shit in my
computer to begin with. But my son offered it, and so I am obliged to
try it. Actually I am glad it does not work.

Good, then we're done.

 

[Citizen Bob]

I have Seagates coming out my ears in Windows 2000 SP4.

Sorry to hear that.

You know it may just be the Drive Overlay.

What is a "Drive Overlay"?

 

[Citizen Bob]

first it needs to be
determined if the drive shows signs of life

The drive works on my son's XP machine.

Good, then we're done.

I hope so. I specifically asked my son for a used WD. He knew better
than even bring a Seagate into my house. But I think he grabbed the
wrong disk and now realizes that there was no spare WD.

I was just hoping that there was something simple here, but as I found
out, nothing is simple with Seagate. I once had a tape drive and it
conflicted with the CD player. No amount of configuring would take
away the conflict. But no one could find it - not Mitsumi (CD player)
or Seagate. That's the kind of crap you have to put up with when you
fool around with Seagate - so it is not surprising to learn here that
my disk problem falls into the same category.

 

[kony]

The drive works on my son's XP machine.

Signs of life in YOUR system. For all we know, the drive
might've been damaged in transit- keep in mind that not all
parts failures were manuacturing defects, the others had to
happen at "some" later point.

I hope so. I specifically asked my son for a used WD. He knew better
than even bring a Seagate into my house. But I think he grabbed the
wrong disk and now realizes that there was no spare WD.

You've gone mad. There's no reason to reject a Seagate so
quickly.

I was just hoping that there was something simple here, but as I found
out, nothing is simple with Seagate.

We were suggesting you use the master/slave because of a
potential Western Digital issue, not because it's a Seagate.

I once had a tape drive and it
conflicted with the CD player. No amount of configuring would take
away the conflict. But no one could find it - not Mitsumi (CD player)
or Seagate. That's the kind of crap you have to put up with when you
fool around with Seagate - so it is not surprising to learn here that
my disk problem falls into the same category.

Tape drive <> hard drive
I doubt Seagate is your problem, I have plenty and no higher
rate of problems than other brands. The two primary
suspects are your removable caddy and the WD drive's
jumpering.

 

[George Hester]

Sorry to hear that.


What is a "Drive Overlay"?

http://www.drivermuseum.com/files/utils/hd_u.html

This talks about Windows XP and Drive Overlay but it will give you links to
Seagate's and describe it.

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=315679