Drive Image , Recovery, again

[billurie]

Reviving our discussions of a few months back,
Crusty Old B., I've been following your directions
strictly, and they work fine, as you predicted,
most times. Now and again I get to a case where
I've done everything correctly, and in starting up the
"Recovered" drive, it hangs in BIOS, does not boot
past the "Boot from CD"....I've repeated it to make
sure, even doing defrag and chkdsk/r twice on the
"Recovered" drive, and it still hangs somewhere
in the boot-up. The BIOS has already said that it
is past the "Boot from Floppy", and it knows there's
no CD, and it's trying to find the right stuff in
HDD-0 and it isn't there. What's the next step?

 

[Richard Urban]

A created image MUST be restored to the same relative position on the hard
drive. That is, if the image was created of drive 0, partition 0 - it must
be restored to the same drive and partition. If it is not, it won't boot!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[billurie]

A created image MUST be restored to the same relative position on the hard
drive. That is, if the image was created of drive 0, partition 0 - it must
be restored to the same drive and partition. If it is not, it won't boot!

Oh, I didn't know that!!! That's a vital piece of information
I must have missed a couple of months ago. I'll try doing
exactly that, to see if my problem goes away. Thank
you, C.O.B.

 

[billurie]

A created image MUST be restored to the same relative position on the hard
drive. That is, if the image was created of drive 0, partition 0 - it must
be restored to the same drive and partition. If it is not, it won't boot!

Dear Crus:
Master Drive is HDD-0.....I made Drive Image and saved it
to HDD-1, but NOT position-0.... On HDD-1, Position 0 is
Unallocated, Large enough, Primary. That's the start of
what becomes in service my Slave drive.

Now I powered down, removed Master Drive, Jumpered the
Slave Drive to be Master or Single, as WD labels it, and
alone on the system, placed on the IDE cable in Master
Position. Ran PQRE, telling it to Restore from the Drive
Image, to the #0 position. I followed all other instructions,
no MBR, etcetera, plus Make Drive Active and Reboot. It
ran fine, and started to reboot.......and hung after BIOS,
at last stage (Boot from Disk) as described before.

If you have no corrections to make to my procedure, and
no advice as to what else I can do......I will repeat
the entire procedure on a different hard drive in Slave
position. Maybe something is bad about this drive.

 

[BR549]

Don't have any solutions but the problems you are having is one of the
reasons I switched to Ghost and yes I know that Symantics bought out
PowerQuest. I use Ghost 2003, boot from floppy when I make or restore my
images. I typically image to my slave drive but have also imaged to dvd.
With DI I was never able to successfully image to cd or dvd, with Ghost I've
never had a failure, either on the image creation or restoration. Just
never got comfortable with using DI7 to image while in windows and just
don't see any advantage to it.

Reviving our discussions of a few months back,
Crusty Old B., I've been following your directions
strictly, and they work fine, as you predicted,
most times. Now and again I get to a case where
I've done everything correctly, and in starting up the
"Recovered" drive, it hangs in BIOS, does not boot
past the "Boot from CD"....I've repeated it to make
sure, even doing defrag and chkdsk/r twice on the
"Recovered" drive, and it still hangs somewhere
in the boot-up. The BIOS has already said that it
is past the "Boot from Floppy", and it knows there's
no CD, and it's trying to find the right stuff in
HDD-0 and it isn't there. What's the next step?

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

If position 0 on HDD1 is unallocated, try formatting it..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

 

[John Barnett MVP]

Bill I use drive image and regularly image my Windows XP Pro partition from
drive 0 (i have 4 operating systems on drive 0) to my slave drive drive1
without any issue. However what i normally do, as has already been stated,
is copy the image back to the same partition but, and this is important, i
simply allow drive image to overwrite the files rather than reformatting.
The problem with reformatting is that, in most cases, you forget to set the
drive as 'active' then when you come to boot up you cannot get into your
system. This can easily be corrdcted if you have Partition Magic because you
can use that to set the drive as active, but if you haven't got PM you have
to remember to set the drive as active. It is, however, far simpler to
simply overwrite the partition with the image.

 

[billurie]

Thanks, Inky.....I've given serious thought to trying Ghost 2003....
My NSW 2005 didn't come with Ghost, but it's really cheap to add.
I'm going to get a copy and try it out.

 

[Tom]

A 98/ME bootdisk, using the FDISK utility will allow you to set an active
partition also (if he has a floppy drive).

 

[billurie]

Bill I use drive image and regularly image my Windows XP Pro partition from
drive 0 (i have 4 operating systems on drive 0) to my slave drive drive1
without any issue. However what i normally do, as has already been stated,
is copy the image back to the same partition but, and this is important, i
simply allow drive image to overwrite the files rather than reformatting.
The problem with reformatting is that, in most cases, you forget to set the
drive as 'active' then when you come to boot up you cannot get into your
system. This can easily be corrdcted if you have Partition Magic because you
can use that to set the drive as active, but if you haven't got PM you have
to remember to set the drive as active. It is, however, far simpler to
simply overwrite the partition with the image.

John, as I posted a little while ago, I don't have the need or desire to
recreate the system in the same position on the same drive that the
original OS was on. I do exactly what you do, with a few exceptions:
1. I copy the image back to the same (first) partition but on a
different hard drive.
2. I follow Richard's advice and always copy it back to an unallocated
area.
I see no reason not to try copying to a partition with data in it
which will be overwritten, other than Richard Urban's strong
warning in his instructions a few months ago.

 

[ByTor]

Dear Crus:
Master Drive is HDD-0.....I made Drive Image and saved it
to HDD-1, but NOT position-0.... On HDD-1, Position 0 is
Unallocated, Large enough, Primary. That's the start of
what becomes in service my Slave drive.

Are you doing a disk to disk copy????...."Saved to HDD-1, but NOT
position 0?????" Nothing wrong with that. An image *file* can be store
anywhere on HD's except the OS space.

This is where it's confusing for me with the start of your description
from your first post. As was said you *CANNOT* restore an image of an OS
that was made from one position on a HD and expect it to work an an
alternate position on a partition position, let alone a *totally*
different HD unless it's *restored* to its exact position.
You can put an *image* file in bumhoots arizona, it can be restored from
anywhere as long as it's back to its *original* position.

Now I powered down, removed Master Drive, Jumpered the
Slave Drive to be Master or Single, as WD labels it, and
alone on the system, placed on the IDE cable in Master
Position. Ran PQRE, telling it to Restore from the Drive
Image, to the #0 position. I followed all other instructions,
no MBR, etcetera, plus Make Drive Active and Reboot. It
ran fine, and started to reboot.......and hung after BIOS,
at last stage (Boot from Disk) as described before.

It did not run fine it hung.......Let me get this straight? You removed
your "Primary" IDE drive, replaced it with another.....Where did you
"Restore From The Drive Image????" as you stated. Is there another
partition on that drive with the image file????

If you have no corrections to make to my procedure, and
no advice as to what else I can do......I will repeat
the entire procedure on a different hard drive in Slave
position. Maybe something is bad about this drive.

From what I gather you will be going around in circles for no reason. I
think, from what I gather, is the image you are trying to restore was
made from a different position partition OS and you are refusing to
understand that *IT* won't work unless it's goes back to the same
partition#/position...............
It has nothing to do with the software you are using.....

Unless you can give a better description, as I find your description of
your situation a little confusing, I may understand a little better &
give you a hand............

 

[Richard Urban]

Here is how I do it.

1. Drive 0, partition 0 = operating system (in my case 20 gig)

2. Create an image (not copy) of the above and save it anywhere you want

3. Put in a correctly jumpered new drive with sufficient unallocated space
at the very beginning to equal "more" than the original 20 gig - usually a
clean, unpartitioned, unformatted drive.

4. Using PQRE, browse to the image created in step 2 above.

5. Choose the unallocated area in the new drive as receptor area.

6. Start the restore. When the restore is done, and before you exit Drive
Image, use the utility of the PQRE to look at your new drive. Is the new
partition active? If not, make it so. The drive is now bootable.

Note that I didn't partition or format the receptor area - there is NO need
to. If the original operating system partition was an active, primary DOS
partition, the restored image will be an active, primary DOS partition, an
exact replica of what you originally had. The only criteria is that it MUST
be in the same relative position as the original system partition that you
copied.

Sometimes, for a new person, it is good to boot up the computer with the
Partition Magic floppies so you can look at your drive structure BEFORE you
do things. When you are done with the imaging, do the same with Partition
Magic. Are the 2 affected area exactly the same? They should be.

I have worked with a fellow from South Africa for 5 months. I just finished
with him last weekend. He had an unformatted partition of 5 meg as drive 0,
partition 0. He thought it was so small that it "wouldn't matter". Whenever
he restored his image to the drive, an image "created" from drive 0,
partition 0 (on another physical drive), the new drive wouldn't boot. It
was, in fact, now drive 0, partition 1. Yes, it took him that long to
mention this significant bit of information to me.

Man, it's all in the details!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[billurie]

In doing the Recovery, it asks about making the drive
Active and I check that box. Sometimes it works,
sometimes it doesn't, so it is a question of *why*
does it work only sometimes.

 

[billurie]

Are you doing a disk to disk copy????...."Saved to HDD-1, but NOT
position 0?????" Nothing wrong with that. An image *file* can be store
anywhere on HD's except the OS space.

This is where it's confusing for me with the start of your description
from your first post. As was said you *CANNOT* restore an image of an OS
that was made from one position on a HD and expect it to work an an
alternate position on a partition position, let alone a *totally*
different HD unless it's *restored* to its exact position.
You can put an *image* file in bumhoots arizona, it can be restored from
anywhere as long as it's back to its *original* position.




It did not run fine it hung.......Let me get this straight? You removed
your "Primary" IDE drive, replaced it with another.....Where did you
"Restore From The Drive Image????" as you stated. Is there another
partition on that drive with the image file????




From what I gather you will be going around in circles for no reason. I
think, from what I gather, is the image you are trying to restore was
made from a different position partition OS and you are refusing to
understand that *IT* won't work unless it's goes back to the same
partition#/position...............
It has nothing to do with the software you are using.....

Unless you can give a better description, as I find your description of
your situation a little confusing, I may understand a little better &
give you a hand............

Dear "By"....
I'm sure I described carefully, that what fails sometimes, has been
done *exactly* as you said. Original source was in first position on its
hard drive, and I have been finding that sometimes I am unable
to get it to boot, when restored to the *first* position on another
hard drive. Yes, the image can be anywhere, and yes, I always
try to restore it to the same position it came from.

 

[billurie]

Thanks for your patience, Richard. I'll print out and study what
you've said. I've been following your previous detailed
instructions very carefully. I use Partition Magic all the
time, almost constantly, to make sure that there is enough space, and
that partitions are active and so on. What i was unaware of was that I
could use any utility of PQRE to look at the restored OS to see
that it is active. What I have been doing is using Partition Magic
to look at the restored OS......I'd have thought that would be
essentially the same thing.
Bill... ole but uncrusty

 

[ByTor]

Dear "By"....
I'm sure I described carefully, that what fails sometimes, has been
done *exactly* as you said. Original source was in first position on its
hard drive, and I have been finding that sometimes I am unable
to get it to boot, when restored to the *first* position on another
hard drive. Yes, the image can be anywhere, and yes, I always
try to restore it to the same position it came from.

Is it possible that you may have mistakingly imaged your OS the first
time in what you thought was a "Primary" partition??? When in fact it
was a Logical & now you're trying to restore it to a Primary 1st
position??? Or Vice/Verse???? Sometimes with PartitionMagic people do
not look when they create their partitions and forget to look at the
type when it is created....it always marks "logical" in the drop down by
default.....

Maybe a *blunt* question is in order.....Why don't you just put
everything where you want it, create a new partition for your OS and do
a clean install???? It appears that this thread is becoming cumbersome
as many options are being explored......The guessing game grows tiresome
after a bit......
I'm not trying to be a Dick but obviously whatever is happening it's not
working and racking your brain is a moot point.....
But on an end note I have had experiences where images from lets say
"Seagate" drives restored to Maxtors lets say gave me a helluva
problem....And believe me when it comes to images/restores I have been
there, done that, *QUITE* a bit..........

Good Luck!

 

[billurie]

I think you missed the point, By. What is required is to make an
exact clone of a complete hard drive, on a second hard drive.
Yes it is tiresome and cumbersome, with a many-person bulletin
board for communicating.

You bring up a point I hadn't thought of. Naively I expected
that what works fine with all-Western Digital drives would work
the same way with Seagate drives. Now you've added one more
parameter to the process. I've done everything Richard Urban
told me to, and it usually works, but fails too often to ignore. I'm
convinced that I've followed his guaranteed processes exactly.....
but now I'm going to see if it's the frive manufacture that's the
snake in the grass. I'm going to try to pin that down before anybody
hears from me again.

 

[ByTor]

I think you missed the point, By. What is required is to make an
exact clone of a complete hard drive, on a second hard drive.
Yes it is tiresome and cumbersome, with a many-person bulletin
board for communicating.

You bring up a point I hadn't thought of. Naively I expected
that what works fine with all-Western Digital drives would work
the same way with Seagate drives. Now you've added one more
parameter to the process. I've done everything Richard Urban
told me to, and it usually works, but fails too often to ignore. I'm
convinced that I've followed his guaranteed processes exactly.....
but now I'm going to see if it's the frive manufacture that's the
snake in the grass. I'm going to try to pin that down before anybody
hears from me again.

Okay I agree, I merely was just making a point, you definitely have more
patience than I do....... ;0)
Sometimes reading all, and I do check *all* threaded responses, I guess
gets a little confusing......You are correct, an exact clone really
should not be a problem providing it is removed from the machine until
needed, or when just merely switching drives, but it was a tad confusing
as I thought you wanted 2 OS's at one time on a different
drive.....Which in that case two Primaries wanting to be active at the
same time will confuse *ANY* system without some sort of 3rd party
software, plus cloning an OS that was Disk0 cannot be moved to Disk1 and
expected to run in a dual boot(unless, again, the drive is removed and
placed on the "Primary" IDE and the other OS is removed).........I
believe anything beyond Disk0 has to be logical for an OS, I may be
wrong as I have never done this before......My setup is 4 primaries on
Disk0, each hidden from each other period! If I remove one it doesnt
matter to me as all my images are restored to the exact
position.........

Anyway, I'm babbling, I'll apologize if I've thrown in any confusion and
hope it works out for ya......

 

[ByTor]

Not babbling, but explaining and making sense. Now the ball is in my
court. I have Seagate drives and WD drives and I can and will make a
conclusive test to prove or disprove the interchangeability matter.
It takes a lot of time to do it, and record-keeping besides.

Great, I'd love to hear your results.....I've always had a sneaky
suspicion about the mixes. I since turned to all WD's on all of my
machines(I have 6 drives on this machine alone 1 being a Max) I first
started with Maxtors & luckily I only have a few(6 machines)....They are
all my OS drives on my Primary IDE slots and that's it nothing else
touches them, I don't trust them any furthur......I have been
successful, if I remember correctly as it was a rare occasion, that I
was able to restore an image made on a Max to a WD..........Seagates,
wellllll, I never bought any as I could not bring up the will to take
them off the store shelf....too paranoid.... ;0)

Please if ya can let me know how ya make out....

Good Luck....

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Guys

If you looked at some of the HDD forums, you wouldn't buy any make of
drive.. they all have their moments..

The danger, as always, is that somebody spreads info that may or may not be
correct, that could probably be fixed quite easily, and what is written
becomes 'lore' for evermore..

I have seen all makes of drive fail.. much of it could be put down to
quality control or lack of it.. sometimes it is a firmware problem, but that
can be fixed.. and sometimes it is the user who constantly 'escapes' the
chkdsk routine and ends up with a problem infested drive 'by choice'..