Don't get any Creative ideas, young man

[Urmas]

http://forums.creative.com/creative...hread.id=116332&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

Daniel_K:

We are aware that you have been assisting owners of our Creative sound cards for some time now, by providing unofficial driver packages for Vista that deliver more of the original functionality that was found in the equivalent XP packages for those sound cards. In principle we don't have a problem with you helping users in this way, so long as they understand that any driver packages you supply are not supported by Creative. Where we do have a problem is when technology and IP owned by Creative or other companies that Creative has licensed from, are made to run on other products for which they are not intended. We took action to remove your thread because, like you, Creative and its technology partners think it is only fair to be compensated for goods and services. The difference in this case is that we own the rights to the materials that you are distributing. By enabling our technology and IP to run on sound cards for which it was not originally offered or intended, you are in effect, stealing our goods. When you solicit donations for providing packages like this, you are profiting from something that you do not own. If we choose to develop and provide host-based processing features with certain sound cards and not others, that is a business decision that only we have the right to make.

Although you say you have discontinued your practice of distributing unauthorized software packages for Creative sound cards we have seen evidence of them elsewhere along with donation requests from you. We also note in a recent post of yours on these forums, that you appear to be contemplating the release of further packages. To be clear, we are asking you to respect our legal rights in this matter and cease all further unauthorized distribution of our technology and IP. In addition we request that you observe our forum rules and respect our right to enforce those rules. If you are in any doubt as to what we would consider unacceptable then please request clarification through one of our forum moderators before posting.

Phil O'Shaughnessy
VP Corporate Communications
Creative Labs Inc.

Pages and pages of... Creative

feedback... "Uh, that didn't come out right" in action?

You made this mess, Creative. If you think we're going to sit by and do nothing while you ramble on about IP and business decisions, you're out of touch with the internet. Feel free to make your business decisions, right up until you pay the last janitor to clean the building out. If you want to sell a product in a world where you control what you sell, you've been born into the wrong era. Take your hands away from your eyes, and face the truth that hobbyists are doing better things with your hardware than you are willing to. Isn't that shameful?



Smart consumers--the kind that do research, the only kind likely to purchase aftermarket soundcards--are catching wind of this. I guess that's why you're selling assets to make a profit, and focusing on licensing versus actual product. We don't want crippleware. If modifying your software is "wrong", why is making poor software right in the first place? You thought we would just allow it to happen? That some EULA would magically bar the doors and keep people from making your hardware actually useful? Fortunately, the purchasing power and the initiative both belong to the consumer, not the producer. Quit trying to be in control in the marketplace, it doesn't pan out when you don't even invest in R&D.



All I can say is, welcome to the finally-emerging real free market. Where competition (with people who do it because they love it) will either keep you sharp or sink you. Looks like you've made your choice.

 

[Abarbarian]

Creative sound like a right bunch of *********************'s

 

[floppybootstomp]

Doesn't surprise me.

They have a smugness which comes from having had the sound card market more or less to themselves from the year dot.

Hopefully things will change.

What with their attitude and Microsoft's attitude over Vista, it's us the consumers who suffer.

The issues I've had with my X-Fi Audio card and Vista has been the single biggest turnoff for me with Vista.

 

[Abarbarian]

One of the post from the link ,

Customers who have purchased one of these Vista cards should consider filing a complaint with your state's Attorney General's Office. Creative has not provided the advertised product. Their support is intentionally lacking. And they have knowingly sold a substandard product.

Here is a full contact list for all states. Tell your Attorney General what you have experienced as a Creative customer.


and another,

I don't usually bother posting rants on forums because usually when people say "I will never buy from company X again!" it's just a hollow threat. I also haven't got any time for online petitions as they never achieve anything.



The above said - I'm not going to be buying another Creative sound card again.



I bought an Audigy 2 ZS Platinum a few years ago, along with a Cambridge Soundworks DTT3500 5.1 speaker system, both of these have served me well to date. I don't believe in replacing hardware "just cos" when there is no justification for it.



When the X-Fi came out I was hugely disappointed to find out that Creative had effectively obsoleted the DTT3500 speakers by changing the protocol for the digital DIN port. There was apparently no logical reason for Creative to do this, and the net result simply was that the DTT3500 speaker set would not work with X-Fi cards, if I wanted 5.1+ sound I would have to buy a newer set of speakers (Gigaworks no doubt). This change annoyed a lot of DTT3500 owners as it seemed like Creative had changed the digital DIN output for no other reason than to deliberately obsolete the older speaker system and force users to upgrade.



Since I had no intention of paying £hundreds for a new speaker system when my DTT3500 set worked perfectly fine (not to mention that my Audigy card did everything I needed it to) I carried on using my Audigy card when I switched to Vista. Like most people I soon found out that the Creative Vista drivers were buggy, and it wasn't long before Creative stopped providing Vista driver updates completely.



Then I found Daniel_K's drivers, which fixed a whole host of problems for me and also provided features that were apparently impossible to provide on Audigy soundcards. Let's not forget - Daniel_K isn't even a Creative employee, he's hasn't got access to the source driver code, etc. The fact he was able to achieve what he did is hugely impressive.



I had assumed that Creative turned a blind eye to this, maybe they figured that they didn't want to commit resources to developing drivers for older cards anymore. I can live with that, I wouldn't expect Microsoft to be providing updates for XP in 2015. What doesn't sit well with me is threads like this because they show categorically that the problem Creative has with Daniel_K is not that he is infringing copyright (which he isn't), it's that he is providing functionality that Creative has deliberately omitted from their Audigy Vista drivers, or has flat out lied about whether features were even possible on the Audigy cards.



This single thread proves that Creative just cares about their bottom line - they want people to upgrade their hardware simply because they want to milk more money from their consumers. They could provide the functionality Daniel_K has enabled in his modded drivers themselves, and probably more besides (since they have direct access to the source), but they choose not to because they don't want users to be able to carry on using "old" hardware like Audigy cards.



I am disgusted by Creatives attitude to their consumer base. There is NOTHING wrong with my Audigy soundcard, and there is NOTHING wrong with my DTT3500 speaker system. I will be damned if I am going to pay Creative £hundreds to upgrade to whatever their current "supported" gen is simply because they refuse to provide functionality, or worse still - will only provide deliberately crippled or buggy drivers to older cards. This is a disgusting business practice.



Creative will never seen a penny from me again, and that's not a hollow threat believe me.









and another,

This is not the first time Creative chose to underhandedly destroy competition to cover up their own incompetence and/or greed. I didn't forget what they did to Aureal, whose A3D technology was VASTLY superior to EAX in positioning and reflections, and Creative has not surpassed A3D 2.0 TO THIS DAY. They bought up and muted Aureal's technology. I still have a state-of-the-art Aureal SQ 2500 in my drawer, and I am waiting for the day of Creative's demise so hopefully the IP will be released and someone will develop XP/Vista/Linux drivers.

On March 5th, 1998[1], Creative Labs sued Aureal for patent infringement. Aureal countersued because they believed Creative was guilty of patent infringement. After numerous lawsuits Aureal won a favorable ruling in December 1999, which vindicated Aureal from these patent infringement claims, but the legal costs were too high and Aureal filed for bankruptcy. On September 21st, 2000, Creative acquired Aureal's assets from its bankruptcy trustee for US$ 32 million. The purchase included patents, trademarks, other property, as well as a release to Creative from any infringement by Creative of Aureal's intellectual property including A3D. The purchase effectively eliminated Creative's only competition in the gaming audio market. It also eliminated any requirements for Creative to pay past or future royalties as well as damages for products which incorporated Aureal's technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aureal




And another ,

Hi there,



I just registered to tell you that this story's spreading all over germany now, too.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,6...eiber-Modder_loest_Welle_der_Entruestung_aus/

Additionally i want to say thanks to Daniel_K, for his great work made many people quite a bit happier with their creative-products.





And finally,

Just returned 2 X-Fi cards and got my money back...
Think about what you are doing to youre customers.

If you are not willing to see what problems you are causing of this type of behaviour.

Well then you probably should start to make Matcbox cars or something.



I have been a customer of your products since 1996 and used a lot of money on your products.

But I can ashure you that I will never buy a Creative product ever again.



But the best post of all was this ,

Creative,You got a small part of the message..... let me reiterate what I said in message 153 on point number 11...



11. Best way to win back your customers

a. Admit you made a horrible mistake

b. Apologize to your customers

c. Donate cash to Daniel K for his time for FIXING something you should have. As you have

obviously made extra money due to his free work repairing something you refused to.

d. If you do not donate to his cause, then at hire they guy, as he seems extremely capable.

e. Make it known across the Internet of your willingness to eat the crow on this one, and beg

people to help you out in this.



A few other aspects I would add...



Huge point here is to apologize to your customers.

Once done, then come up with a step by step plan as to how you plan to FIX the issue going forward of how you treated Daniel_K, then how you are going to actually IMPROVE customer service, and finally how you are going to FIX how you deal with your drivers and support.



This would go a long way of winning back your customers, as you have let so much water go over the dam of damaging your relations with them, that you hardly left any reason to have the dam in the first place.





The more people who stand up to big companies who sell stuff that does not work properly the better the world will be . No one minds paying for goods and services that work . Fight back against the rippof artists .

 

[Alf]

Thats one soap box rant if i eva heard one

I never had a problem with creative products.



im done

 

[floppybootstomp]

I never had a problem with creative products.

Nor did I until I installed Vista....

Their cards always worked with Linux as well, no probs.

I did read that Microsoft didn't even consult Creative when they wrote their new OS so I wonder who's entirely to blame?

This still does not excuse Creative for a somewhat shameful business practice though.

I'd already made my mind up to shun Creative Sound Cards in future, this article just lends weight to my decision.

But there again, I've heard most peeps have no probs running a Fatality card in Vista, maybe it's just my bad luck with the 'X-Fi' Extreme Audio...

Because, when all's said and done, they do sound good. Decisions, decisions, moral considerations, budget......

 

[Abarbarian]

This still does not excuse Creative for a somewhat shameful business practice though.

.

An thats why I posted . Big companies with a monopoly or a near monopoly in the market place should act in a decent manner . Creative along with Microsoft will intentionally sell you a product that does not work properly , they will hound and sue people for any and all offences against them and worst of all they will deliberatly break the law in an effort to make money .

The people who run these companies have the same attitude towards ordinary folk as Mugabe, Hitler , Stalin , Al Quieda ect ect . Victory and domination with tottal control at any cost .

Fight back , fight for your freedom .

 

[floppybootstomp]

Referring to the first post above, I managed to find the drivers Daniel K had written for my Creative X-Fi Audio Extreme within Vista.

And it works

I deleted my Soundmax onboard drivers; fitted sound card; loaded Daniel's drivers then loaded the Creative Console Launcher.

That's Console Launcher as opposed to Audio Console.

The Audio Console is installed with the drivers and basically does bugger-all and the card sounds crap with just those.

The bass tweak, graphic EQ and other stuff takes place within the Console launcher. Without this software the X-Fi Audio is just about useless within Vista.

The fault before these re-written drivers was that my bass settings were not retained. They are now.

But I do realise that this card is software driven and is in fact totally reliant on a third party software application.

I was actually on the verge of moving Vista to my Media Machine where it may actually be of some use and going back to XP Pro on this, my main machine which is used for Gaming mostly.

But I don't know if Microsoft will let me enable my version of Vista Home Premium on a completely different machine as it's an OEM version.

If I explained on the phone to them do you they'd let me?

I may just try it as on my media machine there's only a 25Gb partition for the OS, and there's hardly anything installed on it other than Winamp and some audio and video editing software.

 

[Abarbarian]

Thats great that you have found a way to use your card with all the functions . It is a shame that people will not co-operate to make things better for all .

 

[Urmas]

Guess what, Creative has reinstated Daniel_K's posts.
Creative declined to speak to The Register on the matter, but sent us this statement instead.

We have read the strong feedback about Creative's forum post regarding driver development by daniel_k and other outside parties.
Creative's message tried to address our concern about the improper distribution of certain software, which is the property of other companies. However, we did not make it as clear as we would have liked that we do support driver development by independent third parties.

The huge task of developing driver updates to accommodate the many changes in the Vista operating system and the extensive testing required, including the lengthy Vista certification requirements for audio, makes it very difficult for Creative to develop updates for all past products.

Outside developers have been very helpful to Creative and our customers by developing updates for many of our Sound Blaster products, and we do support and appreciate these efforts. This however does not extend to the unauthorized distribution of other companies' property.

We hope to work out a mutually agreeable method for working with daniel_k in supporting his efforts in driver development. Going forward, we are committed to doing a better job of working more closely with third parties to support their development for our products and our customers.​

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/04/creative_restores_home_brew_vista_driver_links/