Does this board accept IDE drives?

V

Vanguard

Do you actually actively participate in all those newsgroups? Have you
lurked in each one long enough to know if your post is on-topic to each
newsgroup? Don't go by their names. Sometimes there is a charter or
FAQ that you can find on why the newsgroup was created (but sometimes
the purpose of a group will drift away from that initial intent). Also,
remember that you are asking OTHERS for help. That means their reply,
by default, will go to each of those cross-posted newsgroups. Even if
you happen to regularly visit each newsgroup to know that your post is
on-topic to each one, that doesn't mean the respondents are regulars of
those other groups or are familiar enough with them to feel comfortable
in submitting their reply over there. Rather than shotgun your post to
multiple groups, focus on a group that can best answer your question.
No one appreciates coming out of the store to find someone had canvassed
every car in the parking lot with a flyer.

Yes, cross-posting is supported for a reason but not for your reason.
In fact, some newservers will restrict the number of groups in a
cross-posted message, even for a reply. This results in some
respondents getting an error from their NNTP server that their [reply]
post specified too many groups, so then they have to decide which groups
to delete from the Newsgroups header, and since they don't regularly
visit all the newsgroups then the choice of which ones to delete is
difficult. Most times a single group is all that is needed for a post.
Perhaps 2 groups are directly applicable, especially if they are pretty
much duplicates of each other (like microsoft.public.outlook and
microsoft.public.outlook.general). The more groups you include for
cross-posting, the more likely that your post is off-topic or
inappropriate to some of them. Just because a thing can be done doesn't
mean it should be done.

Why and How to Cross-post
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/xpost.html

The use of the Follow-Up To header is mentioned. However, I consider
its use in most situations to be very rude. Its intent is to direct
replies to the OP's "home" group which may not be a group visited by the
respondents. This means the respondent's reply gets disconnected
because it went into a different group than where they read your post.
They saw your post in their group yet their reply won't go there and
instead off to someone else's group. The result is that the thread(s)
get disconnected. If there was sufficient reason to include your post
in multiple groups by cross-posting it then the replies are equally
appropriate to each group and those visitors of those groups should be
able to continue the discussion without having to get forced over to a
group that they don't inhabit. When I have seen Follow-Up To use, its
use was rude, and typical of malcontents and spammers that are trying to
hide negative replies by shoving them off somewhere else. Since the
message was cross-posted, the OP can read the discussion in whatever is
their "home" group without having to force respondents to lose the
thread in their own group.
 
V

Vanguard

Doc said:
Negative. As I previously indicated, I've encountered him before,
where he
offered similar carping. He even posts under sockpuppets to try and
add
"weight" to his whining. If it bothers him or anyone else that much,
let
them start a moderated forum.

I have never seen Kony post under a "sock puppet" (another moniker).
You sure it was Kony? Did you check the Path and NNTP-Posting-Host
headers to match against Kony's post and the one you thought was a sock
puppet? Did you check to see if it was an imposter? Many NNTP clients
let the user change their identity on the fly and even let them insert
bogus headers (which some NNTP server will strip out or convert to
X-headers but not all do). It is not difficult to pose as someone else.
Some malcontents even use a script to use against those they dislike to
submit posts under that other person's identity as soon as they see that
other person's post.

Got an example of where you think Kony was posting under a different
moniker? I'd be interested in seeing that post to know if it was an
imposter. While users will occasionally change their ISP or post from
different locales, their headers will often show the same source or same
set of sources for the poster if they are the same person.
 
K

kony

I have never seen Kony post under a "sock puppet" (another moniker).
You sure it was Kony?


Yes I did post under another moniker because I was on a thin
client with only internet access, so I posted through one of
my Google Groups accounts. I made no attempt to pretend to
be another person and it was quite obvious to Doc who it
was.
 
V

Vanguard

kony said:
Yes I did post under another moniker because I was on a thin
client with only internet access, so I posted through one of
my Google Groups accounts. I made no attempt to pretend to
be another person and it was quite obvious to Doc who it
was.


But if you posted under "Kony" from a different locale, you were using
the same moniker, not a different one. Since users may post from
different locales, their IP address in the headers may change but
usually they post more than once from those alternate locales (unless,
say, they are vacationing). Even if you go through Google Groups, they
include the NNTP-Posting-Host header. They used to include the header,
they stopped for awhile, reevaluated that behavior when questioned
whether or not they wanted to operate an anonymizing Usenet service, and
decided to again insert that header. So if you still used "Kony", and
if the NNTP-Posting-Host header showed your same IP address from
whatever is one, or more, of your usual hosts then Doc should've seen
that you weren't an imposter and weren't trying to hide your identity.
However, if you posted under something other than "Kony" then you were
hiding your identity, especially if posting through an anonymizing
mail2news gateway, using a one-time local for an IP address never used
in a prior post of yours, or otherwise hid the IP address of your usual
hosts (firmly shake's finger at Kony if true). When you posted through
Google Groups, was the header added by Google the same
"NNTP-Posting-Host: 74.129.166.247" as added when you use Forte through
news.insightbb.com server? That you posted through Google Groups would
not change the value of the NNTP-Posting-Host header.

I've used both individual.net (when they were free) and AIOE. Those
NNTP services do not include the NNTP-Posting-Host header. AIOE will
convert a user-entered NNTP-Posting-Host header to make it an X-header
to nullify an attempt by malcontents to insert a bogus header. I don't
know if that is typical of other NNTP servers or if they simply strip it
out (they don't add it so it should not be permitted that the user
insert it). Personally I prefer using NNTP servers that include this
header as I am not trying to hide from where I submit my posts.
 
K

kony

But if you posted under "Kony" from a different locale, you were using
the same moniker, not a different one.

I didn't post as "Kony", because I dont' have that moniker
on Google Groups and I don't sign my posts. I didn't claim
to be anyone else nor deny being same person who posts as
"kony" because it was clear, and because it is not who posts
that matters but the information posted.
Since users may post from
different locales, their IP address in the headers may change but
usually they post more than once from those alternate locales (unless,
say, they are vacationing). Even if you go through Google Groups, they
include the NNTP-Posting-Host header. They used to include the header,
they stopped for awhile, reevaluated that behavior when questioned
whether or not they wanted to operate an anonymizing Usenet service, and
decided to again insert that header. So if you still used "Kony", and
if the NNTP-Posting-Host header showed your same IP address from
whatever is one, or more, of your usual hosts then Doc should've seen
that you weren't an imposter and weren't trying to hide your identity.

The thing is, I have no reason to hide it, as I'd already
posted AS kony regarding his behavior. Imposters I do not
concern myself with, because I consider the content, not the
ID of the poster. Anyone can forge a moniker, or even an IP
# if they bothered to, as would I if I were trying to be
stealthy.


However, if you posted under something other than "Kony" then you were
hiding your identity,

I posted using an existing Google account, merely the means
to post using Google because I had no usenet client on the
system used, only a browser. If I happen to forget the
password for that Google account at some point (or day,
whatever), I might end up posting using a different Google
account, also not "kony". Where I am, what
services/website/forum/etc, I am using determines what
account is used, as I'm not going to keep rechecking for
"kony" nor renaming accounts. In many forums they would
wonder who the heck kony is but know me by a different
moniker(s). Perhaps this is not understood by some but I
don't try to take vanity from a user ID, I value the content
of posts by anyone, even a troll can post something
semi-intelligent once in a while.
 
A

Arno Wagner

Negative. As I previously indicated, I've encountered him before, where he
offered similar carping. He even posts under sockpuppets to try and add
"weight" to his whining. If it bothers him or anyone else that much, let
them start a moderated forum.


Whatever one individual's "usefulness" may or may not be, it isn't
enough for me to tolerate their control-freak pissiness. I'll be
happy to listen to input from those whose tendency is to be civil
and not trying to singlehandedly dictate behavior.

That is perhaps the single most accurate description of what
some people posting here are trying to do. Impressive.

Arno
 
D

Doc

Vanguard said:
I have never seen Kony post under a "sock puppet" (another moniker).

Check out the post by "(e-mail address removed)" under the thread "When
installing a replacement mobo, will I have to reinstall the O/S?" on
tuesday, June 13, 2006 6:46 AM and compare to his original post on this
thread.

I called him on it at the time based on the NNTP info. Not only is he a
control freak/dork (you *WILL* learn to blah blah blah - to which I offer a
hearty "eat me" accompanied by extending a particular digit), by introducing
numerous posts that were non-informational noise (and all x-posted to the
exact same groups) to the mix, he's also something of a hypocrite, given
that his original whine-o-gram was complaining about what he perceives as
"noise" on usenet.
 
K

kony

Check out the post by "(e-mail address removed)" under the thread "When
installing a replacement mobo, will I have to reinstall the O/S?" on
tuesday, June 13, 2006 6:46 AM and compare to his original post on this
thread.

I called him on it at the time based on the NNTP info.

Called me on it?

I never denied it.

Not only is he a
control freak/dork (you *WILL* learn to blah blah blah - to which I offer a
hearty "eat me" accompanied by extending a particular digit), by introducing
numerous posts that were non-informational noise (and all x-posted to the
exact same groups) to the mix, he's also something of a hypocrite, given
that his original whine-o-gram was complaining about what he perceives as
"noise" on usenet.


Nonsense. Fact is, I do exactly what I suggested,
researching information, not cross posting elementary
questions to several groups.

Did it ever occur to you that you can't manage to do the
basic things everyone else can? Doesn't that strike you as
a bit damning?

Yes I did mention your postings, because you need to learn
for your own benefit as well as everyone else's. That is a
win/win situation but your ego prevents you from learning
instead of going into defense mode.

When you grow up you might learn that conceding an error is
better than trying to claim you'll do whatever you want even
if it has no good purpose.
 
K

kony

Negative. As I previously indicated, I've encountered him before, where he
offered similar carping. He even posts under sockpuppets to try and add
"weight" to his whining. If it bothers him or anyone else that much, let
them start a moderated forum.

Actually, no. If I were trying to add some kind of "weight"
as you put it, the obvious course would have been to
participate in the same thread as multiple *people*. You
don't actually care about reality though, only an attempt to
divert atttention from your inability to respect usenet
convention.

Whatever one individual's "usefulness" may or may not be, it isn't enough
for me to tolerate their control-freak pissiness.

Get a clue- I did not invent usenet etiquette. Vanguard
linked an article or two and there are plenty more out there
indicating a problem with your posting behavior, not once or
twice, but constantly even on the most rudimentary of
questions.

So you feel we will tolerate your postings, but you don't
have to tolerate any mention of those same postings going
against usenet conventions?

In other words, no child likes to be corrected, and your
attitude shows this well.

I'll be happy to listen to
input from those whose tendency is to be civil and not trying to
singlehandedly dictate behavior.

Wow you really are an idiot.

1) I did not dictate behavior. This is common knowledge,
easily found in myriad documents regarding usenet.

2) I was civil. IIRC, I wrote:

"Instead of posting to an excessive number of newsgroups you
might consider using a search engine- this is readily
available information."

That is not uncivil.
I've been on usenet for years and I treat assclowns like assclowns.

You've been this ignorant and anti-social for years?
You don't even realize it's anti-social do you? Expecting
others to do your work, volunteer their time when you can't
be bothered to do a simple search like anyone else is
ridiculous, and shows no regard for anyone you'd have read
you posts- which is multiple times as many people when you
cross-posted. A mere few minutes of time to learn instead
of being ignorant and you will instead use cumulatively,
dozens of man-hours of others' time per thread for no useful
purpose. Even on usenet these topics have been covered many
times, let alone the internet and other forums but you CHOSE
not to be responsible for gaining the information you need
instead of burdening others with it.

I did not make up usenet rules, FAQ, etc. You merely seemed
to think I did because I was the one that mentioned them
after having noticed just how many times you continually
posted very basic questions, questions easily answered with
a quick search, to an excessive number of groups.

When you do that and try to take a defense of "you're an
assclown", it just shows even more of your low character.
 
K

kony

Yeah, blah blah blah... I don't care how "smart" he allegedly is. Sorry if
he's a friend of yours, and I appreciate your input

Do you?
I don't think so, you're not at all considerate, let alone
appreciative of others when you can't be bothered to do even
a rudimentary amount of research yourself.

What is it that you cant' understand?
Is it not obvious that others actualy make an effort to find
information first, and have the good judgement to post
appropriately?

Did it not seem obvious your postings were somehow DIFFERENT
than the norm, and in that difference was where I had paused
to comment?
I told him to get stuffed before,

.... and you somehow thought that telling someone to get
stuffed makes anything you do more palatable? If anything
it shows even more how much you deliberately rebell against
the common good workings of usenet, and have no regard for
others who volunteer their time there.

Remember, it is not I that made any rules, and it is not
just I that will be wasting time on your posts, but many
many well-meaning people who didn't notice (yet) how little
you think of them, to expect their effort towards your
problem when you couldn't even be bothered to put forth the
same effort yourself to do basic research.

That's what I'm doing.

No, you're trying to place the burden on others. If you
are really that unskilled at using a search engine, all the
more reason to learn better search strategies.

Search engines aren't going anywhere, it is to YOUR benefit
to use them... and I don't mean to your benefit because I or
someone else doesn't like your postings, I mean you will be
able to be faster, more thorough, more informed to evaluate
the information you find (usenet posts are seldom meant to
be comprehensive rather than short problem-vs-solution posts
that are only a small subset of all knowledge, and sometimes
even less when you post to more groups because the
participants end up spending more time reading the other
posts and arguing instead of putting the time into a
complete answer). The other benefit is that usenet
resources are freed up to cover new topics, not a redundant
waste for no useful purpose.
 
V

Vanguard

kony said:
I didn't post as "Kony", because I dont' have that moniker
on Google Groups and I don't sign my posts. I didn't claim
to be anyone else nor deny being same person who posts as
"kony" because it was clear, and because it is not who posts
that matters but the information posted.


The thing is, I have no reason to hide it, as I'd already
posted AS kony regarding his behavior. Imposters I do not
concern myself with, because I consider the content, not the
ID of the poster. Anyone can forge a moniker, or even an IP
# if they bothered to, as would I if I were trying to be
stealthy.




I posted using an existing Google account, merely the means
to post using Google because I had no usenet client on the
system used, only a browser. If I happen to forget the
password for that Google account at some point (or day,
whatever), I might end up posting using a different Google
account, also not "kony". Where I am, what
services/website/forum/etc, I am using determines what
account is used, as I'm not going to keep rechecking for
"kony" nor renaming accounts. In many forums they would
wonder who the heck kony is but know me by a different
moniker(s). Perhaps this is not understood by some but I
don't try to take vanity from a user ID, I value the content
of posts by anyone, even a troll can post something
semi-intelligent once in a while.


It's not vanity. I don't like my given name but I continue to use it.
It's for consistency so others know to whom they are responding,
especially if the participants of the discussion are regulars. If "Bob"
starts a thread and later comes in as "DeadHead" then I have to assume
that someone else joined the conversation rather than waste time
checking the headers for IP addresses or nodes in the Path header to
identify them. We don't care what is your name. We do care that you
use the same one for consistency. Content is not the end-all of posts.
WHO makes the post is also important, especially if it is a known
regular that has been consistently helpful in the past, so consistency
in a name does have value as it provides additional qualification to the
value of a post.

As far as Google Groups goes, I haven't had a problem using the same
moniker. Even if I forget what was the e-mail address needed to login,
I can always use trashmail.net, sneakmail.com, or a disposable webmail
address to get their confirmation mail to complete the registration.
But establishing a new account using a different e-mail address does not
preclude me from using the same moniker. In fact, I use Google Groups
so rarely that I will never remember my e-mail address, and I certainly
am not going to use a valid one when posting to Usenet since I'm not
interested in energizing spam to myself nor am I interested in
disconnecting discussions by taking them offline via e-mail. So every
time that I use Google Groups means that I have to redo the registration
with yet another temporary e-mail alias but I still get to specify what
is my moniker. Google Groups does not demand that you use a unique
moniker when you create an account (since it isn't a requirement of
Usenet, either). I see no reason why you cannot use the same "kony"
name whether using your NNTP client or using Google Groups (and creating
a new account each time you use Google Groups).

There are some groups that I have lurked and decided that I could not
post there because there was already someone else that had established
their identity using the same moniker as myself. I don't want to step
on their established identity. As it turned out, I didn't remain in
those groups or post there so I didn't have to change my name. But if I
did change my moniker to be polite to someone else, it would be
something very similar, like VanguardLH or Vanguard.TX, so that the
changeover was minor. Of course, there is no requirement that your
moniker be unique but it helps not for vanity but to remove confusion by
others as to who they are talking to. Would you trust someone who
everyday that you met them was using a different name? It wouldn't
matter what they said (i.e., their content) if they were surreptitious
regarding their identity.
 
V

Vanguard

Doc said:
Check out the post by "(e-mail address removed)" under the thread
"When
installing a replacement mobo, will I have to reinstall the O/S?" on
tuesday, June 13, 2006 6:46 AM and compare to his original post on
this
thread.

I called him on it at the time based on the NNTP info. Not only is he
a
control freak/dork (you *WILL* learn to blah blah blah - to which I
offer a
hearty "eat me" accompanied by extending a particular digit), by
introducing
numerous posts that were non-informational noise (and all x-posted to
the
exact same groups) to the mix, he's also something of a hypocrite,
given
that his original whine-o-gram was complaining about what he perceives
as
"noise" on usenet.


Hmm, I just realized that the "kony" with whom I am familiar is the one
that posts over in the alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit group (and
probably why I thought of that "kony" because you were asking about an
Abit mobo). I took a look at the "kony" posts over in that group and
that "kony" is also posting through an Insight end-user node (although
with a different IP address). It's probably the same Kony. Maybe Kony
has a different personality depending on which group he participates.
I'm used to discussions, like http://snipurl.com/sgee, where he does
help. But we all have our bad days. Sometimes I happen to be
cantankerous and beligerent or I get fed up with lazy users or forget
that everyone is a Usenet newbie at one time. We all have our moods.

Could be you two just won't get along. Mix your and Kony and bad karma
results. But killfiling him means you won't see when he does choose to
provide some useful information in his posts to other users whose thread
you happen to read due to your interest in the topic. For now, probably
the best resolution is just to ignore each other. Rather than
killfiling Kony, or anyone else who isn't obviously a troll or
malcontent, you might simply define a rule to color code any posts with
his name in the From header, like may it light gray so you can see it is
still there but reminds you that you might want to ignore the post yet
you could still read it if the topic was of sufficient interest to you
to sneak a peek. Invariably someone else (that you don't killfile) will
respond to whomever you killfile so you end up seeing their post,
anyway.
 
K

kony

Hmm, I just realized that the "kony" with whom I am familiar is the one
that posts over in the alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit group (and
probably why I thought of that "kony" because you were asking about an
Abit mobo). I took a look at the "kony" posts over in that group and
that "kony" is also posting through an Insight end-user node (although
with a different IP address). It's probably the same Kony. Maybe Kony
has a different personality depending on which group he participates.

It's not a personality per se, I have multiple ISP accounts.
You may see posts through several including insight, at&t,
comcast, or where I am may dictate another. I do tend to
use one more than the others but it could easily change as
would the IP #. These are using a newsreader.

If I am not using a newsreader I may post by Google groups
or another method. Some of these accounts were even carried
over from years ago, like those with the my-deja.com URL
embedded.

Whichever other method I used would be one of convenience,
where I already had an existing account. If I participate
in a thread I have never posted as multiple monikers except
in very, very rare cases where I clearly stated it.

I'm used to discussions, like http://snipurl.com/sgee, where he does
help. But we all have our bad days. Sometimes I happen to be
cantankerous and beligerent or I get fed up with lazy users or forget
that everyone is a Usenet newbie at one time. We all have our moods.

I don't consider it a mood, it is a consistent belief that
people should do the basic research, not just lazily expect
someone else to do their work for them.

If you don't agree that having people do their own work is
helpful to everyone, that is where we differ in opinion.

Could be you two just won't get along. Mix your and Kony and bad karma
results. But killfiling him means you won't see when he does choose to
provide some useful information in his posts to other users whose thread
you happen to read due to your interest in the topic. For now, probably
the best resolution is just to ignore each other.

I could care less what Doc posts, rather the impact of it is
the problem. In fairness, everyone should be entitled to
the same posting practices. What would happen if everyone
posted all the very basic questions they could have, should
have researched, and made these posts to several groups?
How many hundreds of thousands to millions of additional
posts would that be per day?

The result would be _many_ groups having excessive
bandwidth to download (also a burden on news servers), waste
a lot of the participants' time (taking that time away from
appropriate posts), and provide only a brief overview of the
information because most people will not write lengthly
replies covering topics already covered extensively in the
past several times.

So is Doc *extra special*? Are we supposed to make an
exception for Doc doing what is quite obviously a problem if
everyone else were to do it?

Rather than
killfiling Kony, or anyone else who isn't obviously a troll or
malcontent, you might simply define a rule to color code any posts with
his name in the From header, like may it light gray so you can see it is
still there but reminds you that you might want to ignore the post yet
you could still read it if the topic was of sufficient interest to you
to sneak a peek. Invariably someone else (that you don't killfile) will
respond to whomever you killfile so you end up seeing their post,
anyway.


Many people won't reply to someone excessively crossposting
basic questions. Perhaps I was being too kind in pointing
out Doc's error and should have never mentioned the
problem, just let Doc offend more and more reasoned users
who understand the problem and tire of selfish posts. It
doesn't resolve the impact on others though.

Consider spam. Like a singular selfish post, a single spam
email is not a big problem. Now suppose you had 5000 that
made it through your spam filters every day. Similar
applies to usenet in general, we can recognize the potential
problem and could not fairly exempt one person from what
will not work if everyone did it.

Usenet works when people contribute, not when it's all
one-sided. If Doc can't work out basic computer issues and
won't be bothered to actively rather than passively (expect
someone else to spend the time), learn the details necessary
to get the job done, Doc needs to buy an OEM system and
leave it alone.
 
M

~mosfet~

Doc said:
This has gotten far beyond old.

What a ****wit. Straight to the bozo bin for you. Too dim to read mobo specs
and too rude to take advice. A waste of food, what my old dad would call a
"turner". You turn food into shit, that's it, period.

<plonk>
 
M

~mosfet~

Vanguard wrote:

<snip a lot of stuff about nicks>

I agree with continuity of personality/net presence whenever possible, using
one
nick. I've recently started signing my posts with my real christian name.
However, having posted as ~misfit~ for ages (7 years or so) I decided it no
longer fitted me. To make the change gradual, until I find a new name, I
just changed two vowels and left the tildes in place. :)
 
J

John Doe

~mosfet~ said:
What a ****wit. Straight to the bozo bin for you. Too dim to read
mobo specs and too rude to take advice. A waste of food, what my
old dad would call a "turner". You turn food into shit, that's it,
period.

<plonk>

You've been posting for seven years and you still haven't figured
out that a kill file is counterproductive and publicly plunking
people leads to embarrassment.



--
Shaun.



From: "~mosfet~" <misfitnz61 yahoop.co.nz>
Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardw
are,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
References: <EVjog.2440$NP4.1644 newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
<c1l3a29vse1betplp2nbrnjj61u1j7j71p 4ax.com> <sSlog.3517$ii.1096
newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> <d_6dnR4yrPLhsD_ZnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d
comcast.com> <jxsog.13859$o4.7894 newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
<le35a216q87fsf0739has2kd5hmt7fa8nb 4ax.com> <5vydneQli-
aAVj_ZnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d comcast.com> <yHEog.2952$NP4.954
newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Does this board accept IDE drives?
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:53:43 +1200
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Path: newssvr21.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm04.news.prodigy.com! newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!
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R

Rod Speed

John Doe said:
You've been posting for seven years and you still haven't figured
out that a kill file is counterproductive and publicly plunking
people leads to embarrassment.

And hasnt even noticed that kill files work
without their contents being announced too.
 

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