Does frequent rebooting harm a computer?

[kony]

There aren't usually enough hours in the day to play video games, and
I never encode video. There are very few applications that really
require significant horsepower today, although games are sometimes
among them (if you like 3D stuff especially, although the video card
may be more important).


Most people never do backups, either.

The world of computers is growing, and the average amount of time a
computer is kept by its owner is increasing steadily. There may be a
few people who upgrade every 18 months, but nowadays many people keep
one computer for years, and it may even pass through several owners.
The computers at my school are over ten years old now.

Quite true, the majority of users don't seem nearly as
willing to upgrade as to simply keep what they have,
running. Then again, I don't know that i"d classify
participants in a hardware newsgroup as average users/needs.

IMO it's useful to have at least one relatively fast modern
system, and for someone wanting only two systems, that might
mean keeping their (then) old system as a backup or
fileserver or ??? some other general purpose use.

 

[if]

There are simple things one can do IF they decide they're
going to leave their monitor fully on, like using a blanked
black screensaver, that quite significantly reduce power
consumption

A screen saver makes little difference. According to my Iiyama handbook,
power consumption = 110-130W (17" CRT), with a blank screen being the 110W
end. Assuming an average of 120W during use, you would only save about 10%
with a blank screen saver. In contrast, putting the monitor into standby
reduces power consumption to under 10W, a 90% saving, and suspend mode to
6W, a 95% saving. Even so, the handbook recommends turning the monitor off
completely at night. I expect most CRT monitors have similar figures.


.. It must be put in perspective though... Do you

pack additional insulation around your refridgerator to save
$ on it's energy usage?

I've made sure I got an energy efficient fridge.

Do you always turn off all lights

in your house

Yes in rooms not in use, doesn't everyone? Also, compact fluorescents save
about 80% of power used by lighting, each £3 CF bulb will save at least £50
of electricity during its lifetime, making it an excellent investment.

then turn down the brightness on your TV to

save on it's power?

As noted above, screen brightness has little impact on power consumption of
a TV or monitor. It's not the electron beam that consumes most of the
power. TVs use less power than monitors anyhow (my 21" only uses 50W) since
power consumption is roughly proportional to signal frequency, and the low
resolution and slow refresh rate of a TV compared to a monitor means it
only uses a fraction of the power despite the larger screen size.

In the cooler months of the year, do

you recognize that the power used by a computer is heating
the room so there could be a lower HVAC utilization if you
plan for that?

Gas is only about 1/4 of the price of electricity though, so electronic
equipment isn't the best way of heating your house, and often doesn't
deliver the heat when or where it's most needed.

 

[if]

Eight hours? That'll be the day. More like 14 - 16 hours a day. Seven
days a week...

Can't you use hot-swap drive caddies to save time on rebooting every ten
minutes?

 

[Odie Ferrous]

Can't you use hot-swap drive caddies to save time on rebooting every ten
minutes?

It woud take forever to install the drives in the caddies each time I
needed to test one.

Besides, I need a "pure" signal path from computer to drive - a caddy
has its own electronics which I don't want to bring into the equation.


Odie

 

[kony]

A screen saver makes little difference. According to my Iiyama handbook,
power consumption = 110-130W (17" CRT), with a blank screen being the 110W
end. Assuming an average of 120W during use, you would only save about 10%
with a blank screen saver.

Then your handbook is either wrong or non-applicable to most
monitors, or you are simply misinterpreting the handbook
(most likely). You are randomly assuming blank means the
low end of the 110W scale, right? If that is actually what
it says in the handbook then there can be no doubt the
handbook is just wrong. There is direct correlation to the
screen output and power consumption, which will be well
below 50% with a blank screen on any CRT of typical (15" or
larger) size.

In contrast, putting the monitor into standby
reduces power consumption to under 10W, a 90% saving, and suspend mode to
6W, a 95% saving. Even so, the handbook recommends turning the monitor off
completely at night. I expect most CRT monitors have similar figures.

Why would you expect it? You have no basis for that.

. It must be put in perspective though... Do you

I've made sure I got an energy efficient fridge.

So in other words, no you didn't. Just as your fridge is
"energy efficient', so are most (all now?) monitors. You
are indiscriminately and arbitrarily picking one way to
suggest power savings but ignoring others. That's fine if
you choose it, but it is not quite the same thing as an
ideal about power conservation.

Do you always turn off all lights

Yes in rooms not in use, doesn't everyone? Also, compact fluorescents save
about 80% of power used by lighting, each £3 CF bulb will save at least £50
of electricity during its lifetime, making it an excellent investment.

Actually it's often more cost effective to use a lower level
of lighting and NOT turn them off in habitated areas when
using fluorescents, and to not use compact fluorescents.

then turn down the brightness on your TV to

As noted above, screen brightness has little impact on power consumption of
a TV or monitor.

yes you stated it, and you were wrong.

It's not the electron beam that consumes most of the
power.

Oh? What would you claim is?

TVs use less power than monitors anyhow (my 21" only uses 50W) since
power consumption is roughly proportional to signal frequency, and the low
resolution and slow refresh rate of a TV compared to a monitor means it
only uses a fraction of the power despite the larger screen size.

Nonsense. A 21" CRT does not use only 50W. LCD, maybe, but
then we're talking apples and oranges.

In the cooler months of the year, do

Gas is only about 1/4 of the price of electricity though, so electronic
equipment isn't the best way of heating your house, and often doesn't
deliver the heat when or where it's most needed.

Actually you're quite wrong, electrical heat from computers
or lights are almost always delivering the heat exactly
where it's needed, right where the person is.

 

[Johannes]

To do that, you must turn off all the power, or disconnect a lot of
electrical devices each time you go out.

It's still only one wall switch supplying via a filtered multiplug.

 

[kony]

It's still only one wall switch supplying via a filtered multiplug.

That would only cover computer equipment? If one wants to
follow the turn-off-electrical equipment plan, one would
need turn off ALL equipment, flip the main circuit breaker
to the residence would be easiest. In other words it's a
somewhat arbitrary distinction to single out a computer
rather than any other devices.

 

[Johannes]

That would only cover computer equipment? If one wants to
follow the turn-off-electrical equipment plan, one would
need turn off ALL equipment, flip the main circuit breaker
to the residence would be easiest. In other words it's a
somewhat arbitrary distinction to single out a computer
rather than any other devices.

I don't think so. A computer uses enough power to cause trouble. There
are heavy currents ~50 Amp running on the motherboard.

 

[Mxsmanic]

It's still only one wall switch supplying via a filtered multiplug.

You don't have clocks, microwave ovens, VCRs, refrigerators, etc.?

 

[Mxsmanic]

I don't think so. A computer uses enough power to cause trouble. There
are heavy currents ~50 Amp running on the motherboard.

It's total watts that count, and in any case, there are many other
appliances that use at least as much power. Many appliances contain
electric motors that will consume a great deal of power if they seize
up. Other appliances can become very hot if something goes wrong
(electric water heaters, particularly instant heaters). There are all
sorts of things that pose a hazard if you're worried about leaving
things connected to power. Computers are no more hazardous than
anything else.

 

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

You don't have clocks, microwave ovens, VCRs, refrigerators, etc.?

You're being needlessly snarky. In order: near zero power, near zero
unless in use, near zero unless in use, and you don't _want_ to turn
your fridge off to save money, because it'll cost to replace the
contents.

Whereas you can bring a computer down from ~200w to near zero by
sleeping, hibernating, or powering it off. _That's_ a worthwhile
saving.

Jaimie (who has somewhere around eight machines on all the
time - saves on heating bills)

 

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

Then your handbook is either wrong or non-applicable to most
monitors, or you are simply misinterpreting the handbook
(most likely).

Terminology problem, I think. A "blank" screen saver at worst is just
a black screen, with all the monitor circuitry running at full blast
but not painting electrons. That's only going to save power at the
electron guns, so I imagine 110w would be about right. All the flyback
circuitry and heating elements and whatnot is still going, and they're
the hungry parts.

You're thinking of proper blanking, where the monitor is given a
signal from the computer and powers most of itself down into
"standby". As you say, that's a proper power saving. And it's damn
near impossible to get a monitor/computer combination under 8 years
old that won't do that.

Pretty misleading manual, that Iiyama handbook.

Cheers - Jaimie

 

[if]

Then your handbook is either wrong or non-applicable to most
monitors, or you are simply misinterpreting the handbook
(most likely). You are randomly assuming blank means the
low end of the 110W scale, right?

The book explicitly says a blank screen saves a maximum of 20% power.

Do you really think there is a radical difference between Iiyama CRTs and
other CRTs that would make this data not generally applicable? I would be
surprised if the innards of CRTs varied much.

 

[if]

Pretty misleading manual, that Iiyama handbook.

No I don't think so, they explicitly discuss all stages of power
management, what it does and how much power it saves. The mention of a
blank screen mainly comes up because in the absence of power management on
the computer, the iiyama can be set to detect a blank screen and
automatically go into standby mode after 3 minutes.

I don't think the term blank screen saver is misleading, since in Windows
at least turning on monitor power management is distinct from simply
choosing a screen saver, you can do either or both, and the "blank screen
saver" is just one of the screen savers you can pick from the list.


--

 

[John Jordan]

Terminology problem, I think. A "blank" screen saver at worst is just
a black screen, with all the monitor circuitry running at full blast
but not painting electrons. That's only going to save power at the
electron guns, so I imagine 110w would be about right. All the flyback
circuitry and heating elements and whatnot is still going, and they're
the hungry parts.

My wattmeter agrees with you. For a 19" Dell-branded Trinitron:

High brightness, 100% white screen 129W
Low brightness, 100% white screen 124W
Low brightness, "blank screen" screensaver 98W
Power saving 24W
Monitor switched off 17W

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> Conor

If the power switch is rated for 100,000 cycles, he'll only be able to
turn on the PC for 5 times a day for roughly 54 years. How will he cope
after that?

And yes, I do think you're a pillock for thinking that is remotely
consequential.

If you'd bothered to read his entire message, he pointed out that
although it is destructive, it's not destructive in a way that anybody
would care.

 

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

No I don't think so, they explicitly discuss all stages of power
management,

My apologies to Iiyama, then. I'm glad, since I rate their hardware
highly.

Cheers - Jaimie

 

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

My wattmeter agrees with you. For a 19" Dell-branded Trinitron:

High brightness, 100% white screen 129W
Low brightness, 100% white screen 124W
Low brightness, "blank screen" screensaver 98W
Power saving 24W

Nice bit of empirical evidence gathering, thank you. I'm surprised
that the black screen makes 20% difference in power consumption,
interesting.

Monitor switched off 17W

Eh? Where are you measuring?

Cheers - Jaimie

 

[kony]

You're being needlessly snarky. In order: near zero power, near zero
unless in use, near zero unless in use, and you don't _want_ to turn
your fridge off to save money, because it'll cost to replace the
contents.

Whereas you can bring a computer down from ~200w to near zero by
sleeping, hibernating, or powering it off. _That's_ a worthwhile
saving.

Nope, the issue was one of heat and failure being addressed
by powering off the equipment, how relevant it was within
context of many other appliances also using power, not as a
matter of how much power, but still being powerED as it
pertains to a potential failure while user is away.

You are also arbitrarily claiming things like "200W".

 

[Johannes]

It's total watts that count, and in any case, there are many other
appliances that use at least as much power. Many appliances contain
electric motors that will consume a great deal of power if they seize
up. Other appliances can become very hot if something goes wrong
(electric water heaters, particularly instant heaters). There are all
sorts of things that pose a hazard if you're worried about leaving
things connected to power. Computers are no more hazardous than
anything else.

It's the Amps that melt the wires. Ask the generating board why they
transfer leccy by 400,000 Volts.