DLC Profile Mechanic any good? Propr. monitor profiler + lcms scanner profile a good combo?

[false_dmitrii]

Hi again,

Should I be asking this elsewhere? Happy to oblige if someone wants
to point the way.

I'm still looking for a solid but cheap color management solution.
The fairly new Digital Light & Color Profile Mechanic - Monitor
offering has an attractive price, but my impression from various
reading has been that there's normally a strong tie between price and
quality in profiling packages. The Eye-One Display seems to have a
reputation as the best "entry-level" product. Has anyone had a chance
to compare the two or even seen any reviews of the DLC so far?

If I bought a monitor-only package, would it be relatively easy to
combine the profiled monitor with the free lcms tools (and a color
chart, of course) to create an accurate scanner profile? It looks
like the right way to go, but I don't have the tools to experiment.
Wouldn't the two methods fit together in a single workflow?

Lastly, I considered buying a used Eye-One from Ebay. Does anyone
here know whether there are software activation issues here and
whether the tool can be read by non-GretagMacbeth calibration
software?

Thanks for any and all advice.
false_dmitrii

 

[W. W. Schwolgin]

Hi again,

Should I be asking this elsewhere? Happy to oblige if someone wants
to point the way.

I'm still looking for a solid but cheap color management solution.
The fairly new Digital Light & Color Profile Mechanic - Monitor
offering has an attractive price, but my impression from various
reading has been that there's normally a strong tie between price and
quality in profiling packages. The Eye-One Display seems to have a
reputation as the best "entry-level" product. Has anyone had a chance
to compare the two or even seen any reviews of the DLC so far?

If I bought a monitor-only package, would it be relatively easy to
combine the profiled monitor with the free lcms tools (and a color
chart, of course) to create an accurate scanner profile? It looks
like the right way to go, but I don't have the tools to experiment.
Wouldn't the two methods fit together in a single workflow?

Lastly, I considered buying a used Eye-One from Ebay. Does anyone
here know whether there are software activation issues here and
whether the tool can be read by non-GretagMacbeth calibration
software?

Thanks for any and all advice.
false_dmitrii

I use the dl-c Colorimeter and the profiling software.
The dl-c colorimeter is made by sequel-imaging. Sequel-imaging have
been taken over by GretagMacbeth. Since sequel-imaging is the leading
oem-producer for many colorimeters (i.e. Monaco Optix), I guess the
Eye-One Display is made by sequel imaging too. I don't expect a big
difference with the hardware.
Well, I didn't test the Eye One software, but I trust in Jonathan
Sachs and his knowlegde. Of cause the the Eye One software has some
gimicks. For example you can put the colorimeter somewhere at the
screen. The software will find it. But is this a real improment?
Buying a used Eye One or Spyder can be a solution, but you also need
the software. Another point might be, that older Colorimeter cannot be
used with LCD-screens.
I use the dl-c monitor profile with the following products:
- VueScan
- Picture Window Pro
- Qimage
- IMatch
- Photoshop Elements
- Photoline32

No problems.
The scanner profiles cannot used within VueScan, because VueScan
accepts only simple, matrix profiles.

For scanner profiling solution have a look at
http://www.tkupfer.de/imaging/Scan_Profiling.html
or
http://www.wmich.edu/ppse/staff/downloads/index.html

Winfried

 

[nikita]

The EyeOne Display probe is built upon the same colorimeter as several
others, as already mentioned by Winfried.

- Sony Artisan (even though this is specialcalibrated to the
individual Artisan)
- LaCie BlueEye
- Monaco Optix
- BasICColor Squid

Basically the same colorimeter and in most cases THE same. The EyeOne
Match2 software that comes with the EyeOneDisplay is not serialized.
You're allowed to use it for any amount of screens at your office (
you have to dig for the rules yourselve). EyeOne match2 does NOT
accept any other than Gretag colorimeters and spectros even though the
EyeOne Display probe is the same as the rest of the Sequelprobes. The
good thing about EyeOnematch 2 is that it's the same stuff as in
Profilemaker4 monitormodule. It works EXREMELY well. The Gretag probes
works as a dongle for this software, but it's a very generous
licencepolicy for any larger department.

What can make a difference between different softwares using the
Sequel probe is most often the hardware calibration part. Look
elsewhere at for example Optical for Spyder the "Precall" is very
distinct in it's workflow for hardwarecalibration. But the Spyder
doesn't even come close to the precision of the Sequelprobe. And it
doesn't accept the Sequelbuilt probes yet.The EyeoOnematch2 software
has indicators that help you to zero in the hardwarecalibration
regarding whitepoint, blackpoint and luminance. Monaco Optix lacks the
option to zero in the whitepoint ballance for the choosen kelvin or
D65 value in the hardware of the CRT. But if fixes the rest. With the
competition it has today I woulden't buy any of the Optix packages
(not even the XR) or a Colorvision Spyder. That's my personal opinion.

If you're going to profile LCD/TFTs....then you have one really good
software to go for – the BasICColor from ICS. It will sweap anything
else off their feats in the TFT field. It is working in extremely
small steps along the curve and staying at each point much longer to
finetune. It goes back and finetune the points on the sides of the
fixed point and doublechecking the curve steps time after time.
Fluctations is avaraged and it delivers probably the most exact
profile one can get. It will take about 10 minutes or even more to
build the calibration and profile that. BUT it's a true LAB
profile....(LAB profiles doesn't have to perform better than a simple
Trist profile with all monitors, but anyway...) Most other packages
will run through the calibrationprocedure in a couple of minutes and
fluctations can produce a bad profile quite easily. I always check
with a neutral greyramp in Photoshop both in monitorspace AND
delivered through the workingspace. Add posterzing in diffrent steps
21-40-60 and see if any offs shows up which they always do in a pure
greyscale. The Artisan is the Master in this but that one is soon
history as the TFTs is taking over. (many times TFTs are very clean in
the greys).

BasICColor Display can also be bought with a DCC connector (like the
LaCie Blue Eye calibration package is coming with for LaCie CRTs). Any
newer monitor that has been built during the last four years would be
able to use it. It simply hardwarecalibrates the montor for the
endpoints neutrality AND setting whitepoint AND adjusting to a choosen
luminancevalue. Completely automatically like the LaCie BlueEye. You
can also – with the Sequel Probe Squid and any supported probe –
measure the colortemp of a lightboot that you're using for evaluation
of the printed output. Let say that the boot sits in 5.800 K. Just use
that for the Monitors whitepoint for a perfect match. You just have to
hold the probe in the booth and nail the value. Then proceede with the
monitorcalibration. It's also extremely simple to match one monitor to
the other regarding luminance and whitepoint – and to the boot.

The BasICC Squid probe works even with the BlueEye software for the
LaCies CRTs but Squid doesn't work with EyeOnematch 2. The MEASURE
module for Profilemaker accepts the Squid as an EyeOnedisplay
substitute, but not when using the Profilemakers monitorcalibration
module directly. One has to build the profile from the measurefile in
Profilemakers monitormodule. A two step profiling which Gretag
reccomends anyway. It doesn't matter that much as one buys the package
that looks best and use the right probe. The intention with this
explanation is just to prove that it actually is the same probe.

The LaCie Blue Eye concept has been developed high above the previous
version! It calibrates the laCies CRTs extremely well and full auto. I
did reject this calibrationpackage earlier, but now I really prefer it
with the LaCies. But to get the full autoDDC concept you have to run
it on a LaCie CRT monitor. You can only install the LaCie BlueEye and
run it as a SOFTWARE-calibration on other brands of monitor. That is
allowed. That said, you can get the same concept with any new monitor
from for example Sony or Mitsubishi using the BasICColor + Squid + DDC
connector. The DDC connector costs no more than 50 usd extra....have a
look at the Chromixsite for tools. Link below.
The only thing I feel be negative with BASICColorDisplay is when a
monitor is a bit tired and the blackpointlevel won't go above 0.2 cd/2
at its highest setting it can be a little uneven in the very low end
of the greyscale. Here the BlueEye is smoother and preferble even on a
non DDC aware monitor. I simply run the hardwarecalibration with any
of the others and build the profile with BlueEye after that.....every
piece of monitorcalibration solutions have their little nish

So;

1./

Going for a LaCie CRT: Blue Eye or BasICColor with DDC. Both are
using the
same DDC connector built by Sequel. The Blue Eye software is also
free for any
amount of screens if the BlueEye calibration is bought from the
beginning.. Using the Squid
probe on a Lacie BlueEye would violent the license as you never
bought the
original Blueeye. But it works. Theoretically you could use DDC for
any DDC aware CRT with
this route if buying the BasICColor package. Blue Eye and BasICC
will both calibrate and profile a TFT as well, but BasICC will manage
this task better.

2./

Any TFT: one choice only and it makes it simple: BasICColor Display
and a Squid.
Note that the BasICC software works with many probes like
Spectrolino.EyeOne Pro,
Eyeone Display, X-rite DTP-42 etc.You could buy a BasICC Display
*software only* and also buy a complete package of EyeOnedisplay.
That would give you the following:

# Chose BasICC for TFT screens with the Eye OneDisplayprobe which
works.

# Chose BasICC OR Eye One Match2 (Display) for CRTs depending on if
you
want to drive it with DDC or use the original EyeOne display
characteristics from
the Profilemakers monitormodule. It depends on your monitor if
it is new enough
to run DDC or not. Those two will give a lot of freeedom.

The EyeOne display will also profile TFTs with goosd result, but the
BasICC Display – again – is in it's own class for TFTs.

Bottomline:
What we can see is that some packages are aimed for one and only
Probe. Some probes works with other packages built on the same Sequel
instrument although it would be a violence of licence. Some softwares
are locked to a specific probe like EyeOneMatch2 is. Then there are
the others that are sold in bundle with their own probe, but accepts
any real PRO probes like Spectrolino or anything else from different
manufactures. What's pro-attitude is up to you to decide......

Bad structured information by me as writing fast without any checking.
but I think you can sort it out.

hope it helps,

nikita

Regarding the "combo" question about your flow; the monitorprofiling
is the base. Any other profiling that comes in after that is a thing
on it's own. If you just need a scannerprofiler and have no need for
any more industrial kind of profiling, profilediting or avaraging etc
etc, then it will deliver in all it's simplicity. It's more important
that you really have a good target that has a very correct
descriptionfile to load. Printerprofiling is a different kind of
beast.....


http://www.chromix.com/ColorGear/Sh...&-session=tx:2ECAECB4DCEC0B02605ACFEE994A84BA

 

[false_dmitrii]

(e-mail address removed) (nikita) wrote in message

Bad structured information by me as writing fast without any checking.
but I think you can sort it out.

hope it helps,

nikita

Thanks yet again, nikita. You're a little over my head and beyond my
experience in spots, but it all seemed to make sense. I think the
answers to all my remaining profiler questions were tucked into your
post. I might repost my question in the Photoshop newsgroup to see
what else comes up, but you've provided enough info for me to make a
final decision in this long-neglected area.

Here's one last question: can working in a dim or unlit room largely
compensate for the lack of a monitor hood or gray walls and clothing?

Printer profiles look like a nasty beast indeed. I'm almost wholly
concerned with input accuracy at this point, since it's the hardest to
restore or "upgrade" later on....If I need really good prints, I'll
find a print shop.

false_dmitrii

 

[nikita]

Your pointing at a very important thing in digital editing – the
environment around you.

As a matter of fact, there are so called ISO standards even within
this area. Basically it says that we should use a very low ambient
lightlevel, actually as low as 32 lux. I don't have my Minolta
lightmeter here for the moment and dont't remember the exakt equliant
but guess it was around f4 at 1/4 sec at 100 ISO or something like
that. I'll check it up if you like. The monitorhood itself is mainly
for straylight hitting the surface of the screen. But as I am working
in very busy and noisy environment with a lot of people running around
me it also is a nice feeling of privacy and builds up more
concentration on the editing. Even if that is a subjective feeling
many of my workingpals agree on that. The LaCie hoods are a bit short
but the thirdpartyhoods we're using is deeper. You can easily build
your own and spray it matteblack! Don't pay large amount of money for
it if it is taken from your own wallet.

The grey walls could also mean white walls in a low light environment.
The NEUTRAL environment is very important if taking digital editing
seriously. As soon as you have to use your eyes to visually judge and
decide the moves of adjustments on screen, everything effects your
perception. That's also why the measureprobe for a good
monitorcalibration is a must. Your own brain is effected of so many
things around you. Even what you had for lunch - or how much - will
effect it....many times I find myself leaving the Mac for 10 minutes,
deliver some papers and get a cup of coffe. When back again I wonder
what the hell I've been doing the last two hours.....our eyes adjusts
to any situation and any offs at screen and it doesn't take long
before adapted to a severe colorcast. Having a neutral surounding
where I can rest my eyes looking at quite often will help.

So, a neutral reference becomes extremely important. One tip that some
of us is using is dimming or killing all light BEHIND and on the SIDES
of us. Having a 5000-6500 kelvin lightsurce softly floading a
neutralgrey wall or cloth a bit BEHIND the MONITOR. Then having a
matte black panel or cloth behind ourselves sitting on at movable
arangement on wheels. You know that kind of clothhanger that is used
at fashionshows backstage.
Combinate this with a bit darker grey desktoptable. Dark grey instead
of middlegrey. The light behind the monitor is adjusting our iris in
our eyes to a very comfortable level that creates a very relaxing view
of the brighter monitor.

In any case, dimming the light will compensate for the competition
between the light of the monitor and ambient light creating
reflections on the screensurface. But i will not compensate that much
if a red desktop is in your referensfield. The referenpoints is the
neutrality and it will always make you comparing the colorballance of
the picture and the neutral reference. This is something we do without
thinking of it.

As for my prevoius post, to short it down; The Eye One Display is very
good and probably the package of most value and simplicity. If having
a DDC aware monitor (ask the manufacture) the BasICColor Display is
very good for a full auto hardwarecalibration. It is also the best for
TFTs. The full auto DDC adjusts each channel Red-green-blue in BOTH
ends (white end and black end) to neutrality with aprecission hard to
do manually even if having adjustments in the monitor for BIAS and
GAIN like in a Sony. Mostly people are just adjusting the whiteend to
6500 K while thre still can be a hard off in the black end. The
softwarecalibration in the profile will adjust the curve in the
videoLUT but it can not move the black endpoints in the channel. It
simply bends the curve as low as possible but thre will still be for
example a magentacast in the deep end of the greyscale. Even an
expensive probe can't do anything about that. The DDC neutralize both
ends and the profile fixes the colorcasts in between those ends by
adjusting the curve perfectly. That's why I praise this so high here.
LaCie, Sony Artisan has this as their fundamental concept. But it's
less known that most modern CRTs has this ability built in. It just
takes a sioftware and the adapter.

Using a measureprobe will always take you back to the same
refrencepoint of calibration. Your eyes will always take you to
different points with Adobe Gamma. That's why investing in a probe is
so good and today they're quite cheap to buy. You will not regret that
cost.

nikita