Dell Inspiron 600m Power on problem

[antonyliu2002]

It's been more than 1 year since I started to have the power-on problem
with my Dell Inspiron 600m.

Once I shut down the laptop, I have to wait a very long while to let
the laptop cool down before I can power it on again.

See this picture:

http://myzotoid.zoto.com/img/original/c5323365bbd58782a64664db665701bd.jpg

I ran the Dell Diagnostics utilities on this laptop a couple of days
ago. Everything passed except that the Processor fan - fan on/off test
failed.

The result says:

Processor Fan - Fan On/Off Test

Error code 3700:011B
Msg: Expected fan on low RPM of 2000. Detected fan RPM = 2927

Also see this snapshot:

http://myzotoid.zoto.com/img/original/bb128e010edc1e18e4ce3d8bd7d8bfab-.jpg

I am not sure if this processor fan failure is the cause of the
power-on problem. Would the experienced gurus please diagnose?

If yes, then will the power-on problem dissappear if I replace the
processor fan with a new one?

 

[kony]

It's been more than 1 year since I started to have the power-on problem
with my Dell Inspiron 600m.

Once I shut down the laptop, I have to wait a very long while to let
the laptop cool down before I can power it on again.

See this picture:

http://myzotoid.zoto.com/img/original/c5323365bbd58782a64664db665701bd.jpg

I ran the Dell Diagnostics utilities on this laptop a couple of days
ago. Everything passed except that the Processor fan - fan on/off test
failed.

The result says:

Processor Fan - Fan On/Off Test

Error code 3700:011B
Msg: Expected fan on low RPM of 2000. Detected fan RPM = 2927

Also see this snapshot:

http://myzotoid.zoto.com/img/original/bb128e010edc1e18e4ce3d8bd7d8bfab-.jpg

I am not sure if this processor fan failure is the cause of the
power-on problem. Would the experienced gurus please diagnose?

If yes, then will the power-on problem dissappear if I replace the
processor fan with a new one?

I doubt it, but maybe the system isn't staying cool enough
and this is why the fan doesn't slow down enough. Have you
ever opened it and checked the vent holes, air passages to
be sure they aren't clogged with dust?

Shall we assume the problem is the same regardless of
whether powered by only the battery or connected to the AC
(/DC) brick supply?

I would sooner suspect there is a cracked circuit board,
that thermal cycling it causes an intermittent connection to
become working again. Could be a pin header connector or
ribbon cable instead, something mechanical. If you feel up
to it you might open the notebook, strip it down, inspect
everything then reassemble it.

 

[antonyliu2002]

Hi, Kony, thanks.

Yes, the source of the power does not matter. Be it battery only, AC
only, or combined, the problem remains no matter what.

I've never plucked up my courage to open up the box because I know
nothing about hardware.

I've opened up my desktop many times. But that is a different story.
But I do see from the outside that the fan and the vent holes have a
lot of dust.

So, maybe I should order a new processor fan and replace the failed one
and see what happens. Right?

 

[kony]

Hi, Kony, thanks.

Yes, the source of the power does not matter. Be it battery only, AC
only, or combined, the problem remains no matter what.

I've never plucked up my courage to open up the box because I know
nothing about hardware.

I've opened up my desktop many times. But that is a different story.
But I do see from the outside that the fan and the vent holes have a
lot of dust.

So, maybe I should order a new processor fan and replace the failed one
and see what happens. Right?

Well... no.

If you have no reason to belive the fan is failing (which
would be a stopped or low RPM, not too high, then it is time
to replace it. Right now for all we know the system
diagnostic could be wrong, that it "thinks" the fan is
supposed to be 2000 but that was a generic number not set
for this specific system, or fan... fans are commodity items
and may not be the same source over time.

Clean out the dust and monitor the temps. Confirm that the
fan speeds up when the CPU gets hot, and slows down when
it's not. If you really want to buy a fan, go ahead as it
could be useful to have it, bought now while it's more
available, than waiting year(s ) later when it fails and
finding nobody stocks it.

Often on the larger notebooks of past years, Dell used some
common axial fans of very small diameter, but I think more
recently they switched to more proprietary radial fan setups
which are much harder to find if not stocked by Dell or a
repair parts center.

I just don't think this fan is your problem, that it was
coincidence you see the RPM issue but that the real problem
is either dust buildup or not revealed yet.

 

[Clark]

Keep in mind the fan is on the bottom and must sit up off of it's support.
Make sure the rubber feet are still there and you are not putting in on a
soft surface.

Mine gets fairly warm on the bottom toward the left back next to the fan,
but I have never had a heat problem as far as I know. The screen will go
green when I am watching video, but that is about all.

Clark

 

[antonyliu2002]

Hi, Kony,

Thanks again. Actually, I have called Dell Parts and ordered the
processor fan. However, just like what you said, it is very likely
that the fan problem and the power-on problem are simply coincidence.

I tried taking apart this shabby laptop this afternoon after work, but
it was not successful. I know nothing about hardware, and I was
cautious not to break this albeit ramshackle machine.

I cleaned the fan a little bit by using a small cotton stick which we
can get from Wal-Greens. Still it took me more than 1 hour just now to
power on this annoying laptop.

I spent nearly 1500 bucks for this laptop in June 2003. And only 1
year later, I started to have this or that problem.

Although the Dell Diagnostics did not complain about anything other
than the processor fan, I know that the Broadcom ethernet card is bad,
the system cannot detect it no matter what.

Also the two usb ports are both bad. I am really fed up with the
low-quality Dell laptop.

 

[kony]

Hi, Kony,

Thanks again. Actually, I have called Dell Parts and ordered the
processor fan. However, just like what you said, it is very likely
that the fan problem and the power-on problem are simply coincidence.

I tried taking apart this shabby laptop this afternoon after work, but
it was not successful. I know nothing about hardware, and I was
cautious not to break this albeit ramshackle machine.

I cleaned the fan a little bit by using a small cotton stick which we
can get from Wal-Greens. Still it took me more than 1 hour just now to
power on this annoying laptop.

I spent nearly 1500 bucks for this laptop in June 2003. And only 1
year later, I started to have this or that problem.

Although the Dell Diagnostics did not complain about anything other
than the processor fan, I know that the Broadcom ethernet card is bad,
the system cannot detect it no matter what.

Also the two usb ports are both bad. I am really fed up with the
low-quality Dell laptop.

Given these problems you might reconsider taking it to a
repair shop... I don't know about all Dells but some of
them hold up pretty well (for a notebook at least).

 

[antonyliu2002]

Hi, Kony,

A friend of mine says that the processor fan might be the cause of the
power-on problem. He said that there is a thermostat somewhere inside
the laptop, and if the detected temperature does not go below a certain
threshold, the system is not "considered" shutdown, and therefore it
will not power on until the temperature goes below the threshold.

What do you think?

 

[kony]

Hi, Kony,

A friend of mine says that the processor fan might be the cause of the
power-on problem. He said that there is a thermostat somewhere inside
the laptop, and if the detected temperature does not go below a certain
threshold, the system is not "considered" shutdown, and therefore it
will not power on until the temperature goes below the threshold.

What do you think?

It is possible a high thermal sensor will keep the system
from running, BUT you are not reporting a fan RPM too low,
rather higher than expected at it's low setting... which in
worst case (since system was in fact running at that time)
it would keep the system cooler, not hotter, than it
otherwise would.

If overheating is the problem, getting a fan that runs
slower at it's low-power setting will not resolve this...
hence part of why I mentioned opening and cleaning out the
dust.

It won't solve your other problems though, it sounds like if
you value this laptop it might be time to have it serviced
and all the misc bits sorted outm, unless you feel you can
get a new one to replace it and ebay that (which can make
sense, if you get this power-on problem solved you might get
at least $100 (or more) out of it, and with new batteries
alone sometimes costing $100 it is a good deal to buy a new
lower-end laptop (if not mid to high end).

 

[antonyliu2002]

It is possible a high thermal sensor will keep the system
from running, BUT you are not reporting a fan RPM too low,
rather higher than expected at it's low setting... which in
worst case (since system was in fact running at that time)
it would keep the system cooler, not hotter, than it
otherwise would.

If overheating is the problem, getting a fan that runs
slower at it's low-power setting will not resolve this...
hence part of why I mentioned opening and cleaning out the
dust.

It won't solve your other problems though, it sounds like if
you value this laptop it might be time to have it serviced
and all the misc bits sorted outm, unless you feel you can
get a new one to replace it and ebay that (which can make
sense, if you get this power-on problem solved you might get
at least $100 (or more) out of it, and with new batteries
alone sometimes costing $100 it is a good deal to buy a new
lower-end laptop (if not mid to high end).

It looks like that the processor fan I ordered from Dell has been
shipped. Once I receive it, I will definitely have the old one
replaced by some repair service in town. I am not sure how much they
are gonna charge me for this. It it is too much, I am not gonna do it.

I thought about ebaying this shabby one, but gave up, thinking that it
won't sell much.

 

[kony]

It looks like that the processor fan I ordered from Dell has been
shipped. Once I receive it, I will definitely have the old one
replaced by some repair service in town. I am not sure how much they
are gonna charge me for this. It it is too much, I am not gonna do it.

Huh?

Once you have the fan, replacing it should be trivial. If
you feel more comfortable taking it to a repair center, ok,
but replacement with identical OEM part should be a
straightforward and relatively easy thing for you to do
yourself, so long as you have a small screwdriver (should
you encounter tiny screws, it is important not to strip them
out by using too large a screwdriver... in worst case a
drugstore or dollar store may have a pack of those jeweler's
screwdrivers for $1 which is sufficient for occasional use).

I thought about ebaying this shabby one, but gave up, thinking that it
won't sell much.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. It sounds like you've gotten
the better 4/5ths of the life out of it already so whatever
you can get for it might be worthwhile. Then again you have
the new fan, might be able to fix the rest. hard to say
what's really wrong, could even be operating system related
for all we know... which might be tested by a new clean
windows install then drivers.

 

[antonyliu2002]

Huh?

Once you have the fan, replacing it should be trivial. If
you feel more comfortable taking it to a repair center, ok,
but replacement with identical OEM part should be a
straightforward and relatively easy thing for you to do
yourself, so long as you have a small screwdriver (should
you encounter tiny screws, it is important not to strip them
out by using too large a screwdriver... in worst case a
drugstore or dollar store may have a pack of those jeweler's
screwdrivers for $1 which is sufficient for occasional use).



Maybe it will, maybe it won't. It sounds like you've gotten
the better 4/5ths of the life out of it already so whatever
you can get for it might be worthwhile. Then again you have
the new fan, might be able to fix the rest. hard to say
what's really wrong, could even be operating system related
for all we know... which might be tested by a new clean
windows install then drivers.

Kony,

Check the Dell community forum and you'll see how many 600m users are
having exactly the same power-on problem. For example, check out this
thread:

http://forums.us.dell.com/supportfo...p_general&message.id=180035&jump=true#M180035

or just search power on that forum.

It is absolutely not an OS problem. I just reinstalled my laptop and
the problem remains. I used to use Windows 2000 Professional and I had
the problem, and now I use windows xp professional and I still have the
problem.

It is almost certain that around the time I purchased the laptop from
Dell, Dell Inc. produced a whole bunch of 600m with severe quality
problem.

Speaking of dissassembling the laptop, this page
http://www.notebookforums.com/showthread.php?p=2119012 does have a lot
of pictures showing the process, but I am still scared about doing it
myself.

 

[kony]

Kony,

Check the Dell community forum and you'll see how many 600m users are
having exactly the same power-on problem. For example, check out this
thread:

http://forums.us.dell.com/supportfo...p_general&message.id=180035&jump=true#M180035

or just search power on that forum.

It is absolutely not an OS problem.

Not the power-on problem, I meant some of the other issues
you had mentioned. The power-on problem is definitely not
OS related.

I just reinstalled my laptop and
the problem remains. I used to use Windows 2000 Professional and I had
the problem, and now I use windows xp professional and I still have the
problem.

It is almost certain that around the time I purchased the laptop from
Dell, Dell Inc. produced a whole bunch of 600m with severe quality
problem.

Speaking of dissassembling the laptop, this page
http://www.notebookforums.com/showthread.php?p=2119012 does have a lot
of pictures showing the process, but I am still scared about doing it
myself.

The main thing is to take your time and don't make it an
after-midnight project if you're not familiar with these
types of products' construction. If you wanted to be
methodical you could take pictures as you went along and
have some small labeled containers to sort the screws.

It could be that there is a quality problem with that model,
but considering how many laptops Dell sells, having a dozen
people with the problem may not indicate anything in
particular... it could be that well over 95% of them still
power-on fine.

Either way, I see three options:

Disassemble yourself
Take to a qualified repair center
Seek resolution through Dell (unlikely to happen after the
warranty is up, unless there were a class-action suit).

 

[antonyliu2002]

Hi, Kony,

As you predicted, replacing the fan and heatsink does not resolve the
power-on problem.

I got the fan and heatsink today from dell, and I replaced the old one
myself. But the power-on problem still remains.

I chatted with dell tech support and this time they say that it is a
motherboard problem and asked me to replace the mother board.

Oh, man, that's gonna cost me a lot of money. Don't know if it is
worth it.

By the way, I installed a CPU temperature monitor software, and from
this software, I notice that my cpu temperature stays around 40 Degrees
on the Celsius, that is equivalent to 104 degrees on Fahrenheit. Is
this considered unacceptably high for a laptop CPU?

What do you think? Should I go ahead and replace the motherboard?

Thanks.

 

[kony]

Hi, Kony,

As you predicted, replacing the fan and heatsink does not resolve the
power-on problem.

I got the fan and heatsink today from dell, and I replaced the old one
myself. But the power-on problem still remains.

I chatted with dell tech support and this time they say that it is a
motherboard problem and asked me to replace the mother board.

Oh, man, that's gonna cost me a lot of money. Don't know if it is
worth it.

By the way, I installed a CPU temperature monitor software, and from
this software, I notice that my cpu temperature stays around 40 Degrees
on the Celsius, that is equivalent to 104 degrees on Fahrenheit. Is
this considered unacceptably high for a laptop CPU?

No, that is pretty low for a laptop CPU, but then it
depends on the power state it's in, the setting for that
power state, the load, the surface the laptop is sitting on,
etc, etc. 40C is not at all high though, rather cool still.

What do you think? Should I go ahead and replace the motherboard?

What's it currently worth to you? I mean in the current
state it's in? I'd be more likely to part it out or at
least check on some deals on replacement (whole) laptops.
Seems like some Inspiron 600m were being dumped on eBay for
under $200, so it can't be worth much. I'd also have to
wonder if the replacement motherboard is from the same
production run as the original, and if so, if it is going to
be prone to the same power-on problem later. I wouldn't buy
a new board for it.

 

[antonyliu2002]

No, that is pretty low for a laptop CPU, but then it
depends on the power state it's in, the setting for that
power state, the load, the surface the laptop is sitting on,
etc, etc. 40C is not at all high though, rather cool still.

Are you serious? 40C is still considered cool? Bu anyway, as you know
I replaced the old fan and heatsink. Today the CPU temperature stays
between 30 and 33, remarkably lower than before. However, the power-on
problem is still here.

What's it currently worth to you? I mean in the current
state it's in? I'd be more likely to part it out or at
least check on some deals on replacement (whole) laptops.
Seems like some Inspiron 600m were being dumped on eBay for
under $200, so it can't be worth much. I'd also have to
wonder if the replacement motherboard is from the same
production run as the original, and if so, if it is going to
be prone to the same power-on problem later. I wouldn't buy
a new board for it.

Well, I am a poor student who does not have much income. Otherwise, I
would have just trashed this shabby machine. I thought about parting
it out on ebay, but I gather that I may at most get back 200 bucks,
which is still far short from a new laptop.

I called Dell Parts today, they wanna sell a motherboard at more than
700 bucks! Ebay has motherboard for Inspiron 600m for 159.00 + 30.00
(shipping). Well, if it fixes the power-on problem and does not go
bad, I would still prefer replacing the motherboard to hold up for 2
more years before I graduate.

 

[kony]

Are you serious? 40C is still considered cool?

yes, even 40C on a desktop is considered cool for modern P4
based systems but in a laptop it is common to have them
hotter. Where are you getting the idea that a CPU would
need to be lower? There is really no point in trying for
ultra low temp, if the CPU were getting near 70C it would be
more of a concern, but again it is in an engineered product,
the question would be whether the product is working as it
was designed to do, or if it was malfunctioning instead. A
fan RPM that is too high on "low" speed is not going to
overheat a CPU.

If you were really really worried, you could take off the
'sink (or as implemented it's often a heatpipe/plate on a
bracket that sits on the CPU), and check the flatness of
the CPU and the mating plate surface, then reassemble using
a high quality synthetic thermal compound.

That is not necessary for a CPU temp of 40C, but for some
reason you are dwelling on this so if you were to do
anything...

Bu anyway, as you know
I replaced the old fan and heatsink. Today the CPU temperature stays
between 30 and 33, remarkably lower than before. However, the power-on
problem is still here.

Is the fan running at a higher RPM than the old one was?
Given same RPM, the temp should be the same unless you
change changed something else- perhaps getting some dust out
of the air path.

Well, I am a poor student who does not have much income. Otherwise, I
would have just trashed this shabby machine. I thought about parting
it out on ebay, but I gather that I may at most get back 200 bucks,
which is still far short from a new laptop.

200 bucks for a laptop you can't rely on is very good.
You can get a laptop for under $400 if you keep an eye out
for deals, rebates, etc, etc. Of course it will be a
low-end model, but with the state of your present one, and
that it'll need a new battery sooner rather than later, and
all the other problems... the question is not whether it
needs replaced, only how long you can wait to do that,
unless of course you can get the other problems repaired or
dont' mind them.

I called Dell Parts today, they wanna sell a motherboard at more than
700 bucks! Ebay has motherboard for Inspiron 600m for 159.00 + 30.00
(shipping). Well, if it fixes the power-on problem and does not go
bad, I would still prefer replacing the motherboard to hold up for 2
more years before I graduate.

I would advise against the motherboard, especially if you
have no assurance it's not prone to the same problem as the
one you already have. It could have even come from a system
facing the same problem as yours that was parted out... we
have insufficient info and ebay sellers aren't always
honest/forthcoming/etc, either.

I can only tell you what I'd do, either try to repair it
myself or sell it whole, or in parts (being honest about
what was wrong with it) and putting the proceeds towards
another laptop. That is, unless I was content with using it
as-is, which I wouldn't be.

 

[CBFalconer]

kony wrote:
.... snip ...

Are you serious? 40C is still considered cool? Bu anyway, as
you know I replaced the old fan and heatsink. Today the CPU
temperature stays between 30 and 33, remarkably lower than
before. However, the power-on problem is still here.

40 C won't even feel seriously hot to your hand. It is
approximately 104 F.