Dell getting close to choosing AMD very soon?

[ykhan]

Another story about Dell choosing AMD pretty soon now. But this time
it's something that the Dell CEO himself is saying.

Yahoo! News - Dell CEO Says Considering AMD Chips for Servers
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm.../20041112/tc_nm/tech_dell_amd_dc&sid=95573372

Yousuf Khan

 

[keith]

Another story about Dell choosing AMD pretty soon now. But this time
it's something that the Dell CEO himself is saying.

Oh, good grief, Yousuf! How many times have your heard this? Intel's
sales droids will visit Michael and give him another "deal he cannot
refuse". ;-)

 

[Carlo Razzeto]

Another story about Dell choosing AMD pretty soon now. But this time
it's something that the Dell CEO himself is saying.

Yahoo! News - Dell CEO Says Considering AMD Chips for Servers
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm.../20041112/tc_nm/tech_dell_amd_dc&sid=95573372

Yousuf Khan

Eh, I'll believe it when I can actully buy an Opteron server on dell.com.
Till then, they're probably just playing the "Intel give us better prices or
we'll sell AMD" card.....


Carlo

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

Oh, good grief, Yousuf! How many times have your heard this? Intel's
sales droids will visit Michael and give him another "deal he cannot
refuse". ;-)

More to the point it's the time of year that Dell is negotiating their new
contract with Intel. Dell always leaks stories about offering AMD systems
when it's new contract time, Intel then comes in with rock bottom prices
and that's the end of the rumors until it's time for the next contract.
Who knows, they might even offer a dual Opteron system just to put
a scare into Intel. They won't offer any Athlon64 systems, just a high
end server. They offer Linux on their servers to keep Microsoft on
their toes. Dell only sells Redhat Enterprise Linux which is priced
identically to XP, they don't offer any of the cheap or free Linuxes like
Mandrake or Debian. They also don't offer it on desktops or laptops, only
on servers. Linux is there strictly to improve Dell's negotiating position
with Microsoft. They might do the same thing with an Opteron. It's very
unlikely that Dell will jump whole heartedly on the AMD64 bandwagon.

 

[George Macdonald]

Eh, I'll believe it when I can actully buy an Opteron server on dell.com.
Till then, they're probably just playing the "Intel give us better prices or
we'll sell AMD" card.....

There was strong evidence a few months ago that if you twist their arm,
Dell *will* do an Opteron system for you - somebody at Dell made a mistake
with the Web site and it appeared as "available" for a couple of days.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[Stings]

Do you think Intel suspects this after 10 years and tens of thousands of
stories reporting how they are being played??
I would instantly stop selling chips to Dell a week of no sales would stop
Dells game playing and jaw waging.
Its a gamble I know but Intel has many more clients but Dell has 1 supplier.
I would also raise chip prices if they started using other chipsets VIA SiS
Ali.
The road runs both ways.

 

[rstlne]

There was strong evidence a few months ago that if you twist their arm,

Dell *will* do an Opteron system for you - somebody at Dell made a mistake
with the Web site and it appeared as "available" for a couple of days.

Rgds, George Macdonald

Those show up all the time..
Dell Opteron Server Service Contracts.
Opteron replacement Chips.
AXP chips at one time spotted too!

I wonder sometimes if it's just something that's done so they can get a kick
out of the media industry. I dont see dell moving to amd in a rush because
I figgure they'll want their own specific hardware. If we ever see them
Buying in the hardware that was design'd elsewhere then yea they'll prolly
move some stuff to amd.

 

[chrisv]

They offer Linux on their servers to keep Microsoft on
their toes. Dell only sells Redhat Enterprise Linux which is priced
identically to XP, they don't offer any of the cheap or free Linuxes like
Mandrake or Debian. They also don't offer it on desktops or laptops, only
on servers. Linux is there strictly to improve Dell's negotiating position
with Microsoft.

You don't think it has anything to do with customer demand? I think
you're mistaken. M$ does not dominate the server market, like they do
in desktops, you know. Dell doesn't want to say "go somewhere else"
to a huge chunk of the server market.

 

[The little lost angel]

Do you think Intel suspects this after 10 years and tens of thousands of
stories reporting how they are being played??
I would instantly stop selling chips to Dell a week of no sales would stop
Dells game playing and jaw waging.
Its a gamble I know but Intel has many more clients but Dell has 1 supplier.
I would also raise chip prices if they started using other chipsets VIA SiS
Ali.
The road runs both ways.

But what kind of media backlash would Intel get if Dell goes public
and slam the dirty on Intel for it? Imagine Dell putting out an
announcements on major papers say "Sorry to our millions of customers
who have their orders cancelled. Intel wanted to show YOU who's boss."
PpP

--
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code

 

[Ed]

Intel's
sales droids will visit Michael and give him another "deal he cannot
refuse". ;-)

It's probably the other way around. ;p
Ed

 

[Ed]

But what kind of media backlash would Intel get if Dell goes public
and slam the dirty on Intel for it? Imagine Dell putting out an
announcements on major papers say "Sorry to our millions of customers
who have their orders cancelled. Intel wanted to show YOU who's boss."
PpP

right, and that would just make Dell consider AMD that much more.
Ed

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

But what kind of media backlash would Intel get if Dell
goes public and slam the dirty on Intel for it? Imagine
Dell putting out an announcements on major papers say
"Sorry to our millions of customers who have their orders
cancelled. Intel wanted to show YOU who's boss." PpP

Neither of these things is even remotely probable.

This isn't buying onesies-twosies. This is big, critical business.
Dell probably has 2-4 people who do nothing but buy from Intel.
Intel has at least that many who do nothing but sell to Dell.

Dell certainly has a fixed purchase contract with Intel
to buy X processors at y% discount from Intel's benchmark,
with options on more. Short of "force majeure" (a fab burning),
Intel will deliver. Intel needs the volume just as much as Dell.

If they're in contract negotiations right now, I'd expect it
to be for 2006 or later. They're idiots if 2005 isn't sewn up.

A bigger problem is how Dell approaches AMD. AMD can be sure
if Dell is serious about volume, or just using them as a foil.

-- Robert

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

You don't think it has anything to do with customer demand? I think
you're mistaken. M$ does not dominate the server market, like they do
in desktops, you know. Dell doesn't want to say "go somewhere else"
to a huge chunk of the server market.

Customer demand is part of it but I think that their Linux strategy is
determined more by what it says to Microsoft then what it says to their
customers. They only offer Linux on the high end servers and they sell
those machines for the same price as the XP servers. So they aren't
undercutting Microsoft on price but they are sending them a message that
they could if they wanted to.

 

[ykhan]

Oh, good grief, Yousuf! How many times have your heard this? Intel's
sales droids will visit Michael and give him another "deal he cannot
refuse". ;-)

Normally, I'd tend to agree with you about this, and I'd normally hold
the send button on this story, except for several reasons now. The
story has not only been picked up by several news sites, the Dell CEO
himself is stating it in public (i.e. in front of reporters).
Secondly, AMD just signed an outsourcing deal with Chartered a couple
of days ago. Thirdly, AMD's stock price has gone up over 15% in two
days, so it looks like the Wall Street crooks ...er, investment firms
are all over it too.

It's still conceivable that Dell pull another fast one this time too.
They are not announcing an AMD product roadmap, just saying that they
definitely are looking at it. Also they aren't talking about big
volumes here, i.e. not about Athlons or Semprons here, just Opterons
for servers.

Yousuf Khan

 

[George Macdonald]

Those show up all the time..
Dell Opteron Server Service Contracts.
Opteron replacement Chips.
AXP chips at one time spotted too!

I wonder sometimes if it's just something that's done so they can get a kick
out of the media industry. I dont see dell moving to amd in a rush because
I figgure they'll want their own specific hardware. If we ever see them
Buying in the hardware that was design'd elsewhere then yea they'll prolly
move some stuff to amd.

Dell designs hardware? That's a good one.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[Hierophant]

|
| >> There was strong evidence a few months ago that if you twist their arm,
| >> Dell *will* do an Opteron system for you - somebody at Dell made a
mistake
| >> with the Web site and it appeared as "available" for a couple of days.
| >>
| >> Rgds, George Macdonald
| >>
| >
| >
| >Those show up all the time..
| >Dell Opteron Server Service Contracts.
| >Opteron replacement Chips.
| >AXP chips at one time spotted too!
| >
| >I wonder sometimes if it's just something that's done so they can get a
kick
| >out of the media industry. I dont see dell moving to amd in a rush
because
| >I figgure they'll want their own specific hardware. If we ever see them
| >Buying in the hardware that was design'd elsewhere then yea they'll
prolly
| >move some stuff to amd.
|
| Dell designs hardware? That's a good one.
|

Now I have heard it all. Dell isn't an OEM builder, they actually make the
hardware. ROFLMAO

 

[Tony Hill]

There was strong evidence a few months ago that if you twist their arm,
Dell *will* do an Opteron system for you - somebody at Dell made a mistake
with the Web site and it appeared as "available" for a couple of days.

It's not really so much that they will sell you an Opteron *system*
(though they might on a contract-basis, ie if you contract Dell for a
super-cluster of 1000 Opteron servers, they'll probably be more than
happy to rebadge some servers for you), but a few months back they DID
sell Opteron processors.

The reason for this is actually much more simple than many people
believe. Dell (and HP, and IBM, and all other big OEMs) will sell you
a support contract for damn near anything if you pay them enough money
(hint: do a search on "multivendor support"). If you're willing to
pay the big bucks, Dell will provide you with support for your HP
DL485 Opteron server. As such, if one of your chips goes bad, Dell
needs to have a way to get replacement Opteron processor to you.

The reasons why you would want Dell supporting your HP server (or vice
versa) are a bit more complex, but all basically related to having all
your support contracts handled by one company. ie your company might
have 300 Dell servers and one odd-ball HP server... rather than having
a whole other contract with HP for support for that one server you
could just role it into a big, company-wide contract with Dell.
One-stop shopping.

Of course, the moral of this story is that it's quite a different
story to have some Opteron processors available to people with
contracts vs. selling a full-fledge Dell-branded Opteron server.

 

[Tony Hill]

Do you think Intel suspects this after 10 years and tens of thousands of
stories reporting how they are being played??
I would instantly stop selling chips to Dell a week of no sales would stop
Dells game playing and jaw waging.

Well, despite the fact that this would be illegal, it would also cost
Intel a LOT of money. Rough guesstimate is that Intel sells about 3
million processors a week, and about 30% of those go through Dell.
Just shy of a million processors at an average selling price of about
$100 a pop is a definitely NOT pocket change.

More importantly though, this would SURELY push Dell to start using
AMD chips in a big way. Dells #1 reason (at least publicly) for
sticking with Intel has to do with getting a steady supply of chips.
If Intel can't give them that, Dell will shop elsewhere.

Its a gamble I know but Intel has many more clients but Dell has 1 supplier.
I would also raise chip prices if they started using other chipsets VIA SiS
Ali.

Sure it does, but where either company can threaten to do some things
like this in the media, they are somewhat more limited when it comes
to what they can really do. Intel's had their fair share of legal
battles revolving around anti-competitive behavior in the past.
Holding back products just because a company has talked about using a
competitors product will land them in DEEP trouble in a big hurry.

 

[George Macdonald]

It's not really so much that they will sell you an Opteron *system*
(though they might on a contract-basis, ie if you contract Dell for a
super-cluster of 1000 Opteron servers, they'll probably be more than
happy to rebadge some servers for you), but a few months back they DID
sell Opteron processors.

Yes it was a system... by all accounts.

The reason for this is actually much more simple than many people
believe. Dell (and HP, and IBM, and all other big OEMs) will sell you
a support contract for damn near anything if you pay them enough money
(hint: do a search on "multivendor support"). If you're willing to
pay the big bucks, Dell will provide you with support for your HP
DL485 Opteron server. As such, if one of your chips goes bad, Dell
needs to have a way to get replacement Opteron processor to you.

I was *not* talking about Opteron processors - this was a full blown
Opteron system.

The reasons why you would want Dell supporting your HP server (or vice
versa) are a bit more complex, but all basically related to having all
your support contracts handled by one company. ie your company might
have 300 Dell servers and one odd-ball HP server... rather than having
a whole other contract with HP for support for that one server you
could just role it into a big, company-wide contract with Dell.
One-stop shopping.

I've paid my share of err, "service contracts".;-)

Of course, the moral of this story is that it's quite a different
story to have some Opteron processors available to people with
contracts vs. selling a full-fledge Dell-branded Opteron server.

I did not personally see the Web page so only hearsay but the story goes
that Dell actually had a page showing an Opteron Server configuration which
was publicly "browsable"... until the "mistake" was caught. I believe it
was when you were on NG hiatus... early 2004?? This "configuration" was
said to be a one-off for some Dell customer who insisted that they wanted
an Opteron server... for whatever reason. IOW the gist was: if a customer
said, at that time, "I want a server with x86-64 capability and will take
my business elsewhere to get one" Dell was err, malleable. It could be
folklore but I was convinced by the story at the time.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[keith]

It's probably the other way around. ;p

After reading this a few times, I see that what I wrote (at lest what you
clipped) can be read either way. Just to be certain; Intel will offer a
price that Michael cannot refuse. It's been this way for a decade, or
more.