Defrag Anomoly

[Bill Martin]

I just ran Defrag on my XP-Home system. All went well, but at the end of the
process it says there are two files that cannot be defragmented. One with 2
fragments and a 730MB file with 3,884 fragments.

Unfortunately it seems to be impossible to tell what files they're talking
about. They're down somewhere in the "Documents and Settings" directory tree
and the total path name is too long for the defrag window to show. And it has
no elevators to scroll all the way out to see the actual file name.

Anyhow, I was curious why XP could not defrag these files? Is it implying
there's something failing on the disk, or that the OS is simply incapable for
some reason?

Thanks...

Bill

 

[Guest]

Most likely thier in use....To defrag files that generally get used when
defragging,
one must open system properties,page file,select no page file for C: click
set
2X,close out,restart computer.Back in xp,defrag,after reset page file as
before,
set 2X,close out,if done right a restart is prompted.This is an easier
operation
if you have more hds installed,then one can leave others with a page file.

 

[Wesley Vogel]

Run defrag again and see what happens.

Do you have more than 15% free space?

[[After you defragment a volume, you can view the defragmentation report to
see the results. The report includes a list of files that remain fragmented
(having two or more fragments). Some reasons that a file might remain
fragmented include:

The volume lacks adequate contiguous free space to defragment all files.
Disk Defragmenter requires at least 15 percent free disk space to completely
defragment a volume.]]
From...
Files That You Cannot Defragment
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...windows/xp/all/reskit/en-us/prkd_tro_ldtg.asp

[[A volume must have at least 15% free space for defrag to completely and
adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a sorting area for file
fragments. If a volume has less than 15% free space, defrag will only
partially defragment it. To increase the free space on a volume, delete
unneeded files or move them to another disk. ]]
Defrag
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/defrag.mspx

[[Although the defragmentation tools can partially defragment volumes that
have less than 15 percent free space, for best results delete unneeded files
or move them to another volume to increase the free space to at least 15
percent. You can also use the Disk Cleanup tool to delete unnecessary
files. For more information about Disk Cleanup, see Windows XP Professional
Help.]]
Before Using the Disk Defragmentation Tools
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...prodtechnol/winxppro/reskit/prkd_tro_oegv.asp

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers]

Not unusual, probably part of the MFT or other excluded files like
pagefile.sys or hiberfil.sys.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Bill

To increase you free space on your C select Start, All Programs,
Accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp, More Options, System Restore and
remove all but the latest System Restore points? Restore points can be quite
large.

You should use Disk CleanUp regularly to Empty your Recycle Bin and
Remove Temporary Internet Files in each User Profile. Whenever you remove
redundant files you should always run Disk Defragmenter by selecting Start,
All
Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Disk Defragmenter.

The amount of free space is very important when running Disk Defragmenter. A
minimum of 15% is required but sometimes 20% is desirable if the drive /
partition
contains one or more large files. You can run Disk Defragmenter a second and
third
time if files are still fragmented after the first run. You can put files
more prone to
fragment in their own partitions.

If you use Outlook Express regularly compacting Outlook Express before
running
Disk Defragmenter is helpful.

Disk Defragmenter provides a "Most fragmented files" list. When a fragmented
file is
larger than the largest pocket of free space available then the files is not
fragmented.
Running Disk Defragmenter a second or third time does move files around and
can
reduce / eliminate the contents of the "Most fragmented files" list. The
more free
space on the drive / partition, the more likely it is that all fragments
will be
eliminated.

Free space cannot be defragmented with the Windows XP Disk Defragmenter.
Neither can your pagefile be defragmented because the file is in use whilst
Disk Defragmenter is running. You can purchase other Defragmenting Utilities
e.g.
Perfect Disk, which will defragment your pagefile and free space. Another
option is to
place your pagefile in it's own partition. A pagefile partition is best
located as the first
partition on a second hard drive. You should leave a small page file at the
original
location.
http://www.raxco.com/

~~~~~~


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Bill Martin]

Thanks to all who replied.

I don't think it's a page file issue. That isn't stored down in my documents
and settings subdirectory tree.

Initially I only had about 4% free -- which is why it got fragmented in the
first place I suppose. So then I bumped a bunch of stuff and got up to 20%
empty and that's when I actually ran defrag.

In a related question, does anyone here use the "compressed" feature of XP? I
used to use that (3rd party) back in the old DOS days when hard disk space was
expensive and slow enough that compression actually speeded up the system in
addition to saving space. I got bit by it once and lost some data and haven't
tried it again.

Is it 100% reliable now? Does anyone actually use it these days or just buy
cheap bigger drives when space runs short?

Bill

 

[Richard Urban]

The native NTFS file compression is 100% reliable. In some cases, you will
find that large programs that have been compressed actually load faster.

I would suggest that you compress those programs that you do not use on a
daily basis.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

Thanks to all who replied.

I don't think it's a page file issue. That isn't stored down in my
documents
and settings subdirectory tree.

Initially I only had about 4% free -- which is why it got fragmented in
the
first place I suppose. So then I bumped a bunch of stuff and got up to
20%
empty and that's when I actually ran defrag.

In a related question, does anyone here use the "compressed" feature of
XP? I
used to use that (3rd party) back in the old DOS days when hard disk space
was
expensive and slow enough that compression actually speeded up the system
in
addition to saving space. I got bit by it once and lost some data and
haven't
tried it again.

Is it 100% reliable now? Does anyone actually use it these days or just
buy
cheap bigger drives when space runs short?

Bill

Run defrag again and see what happens.

Do you have more than 15% free space?

[[After you defragment a volume, you can view the defragmentation report
to
see the results. The report includes a list of files that remain
fragmented
(having two or more fragments). Some reasons that a file might remain
fragmented include:

The volume lacks adequate contiguous free space to defragment all files.
Disk Defragmenter requires at least 15 percent free disk space to
completely
defragment a volume.]]
From...
Files That You Cannot Defragment
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...windows/xp/all/reskit/en-us/prkd_tro_ldtg.asp

[[A volume must have at least 15% free space for defrag to completely and
adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a sorting area for
file
fragments. If a volume has less than 15% free space, defrag will only
partially defragment it. To increase the free space on a volume, delete
unneeded files or move them to another disk. ]]
Defrag
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/defrag.mspx

[[Although the defragmentation tools can partially defragment volumes
that
have less than 15 percent free space, for best results delete unneeded
files
or move them to another volume to increase the free space to at least 15
percent. You can also use the Disk Cleanup tool to delete unnecessary
files. For more information about Disk Cleanup, see Windows XP
Professional
Help.]]
Before Using the Disk Defragmentation Tools
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...prodtechnol/winxppro/reskit/prkd_tro_oegv.asp

 

[Richard Urban]

There are some files that are not defragged because they are in use or are
locked system files.

You can attack this two ways, as I have.

1. Download and use Page Defrag (FREE) from System Internals. You can get it
here: http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/PageDefrag.html

2. Use PerfectDisk as your defragmenting program. Use it's boot time defrag
once in a while. See it here (not free):
http://www.raxco.com/products/perfectdisk2k/

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Mike Hood]

Free space cannot be defragmented with the Windows XP Disk Defragmenter.
Neither can your pagefile be defragmented because the file is in use
whilst

<snip>

Thanks for an interesting and informative post. Just one question:

Call me simple, but if you defrag your files, surely your free space is of
necessity defragged too..?

 

[Glen]

It means all your files won't be in one block. The files will be
defragmented but might be in more than one block with free space between the
blocks of files. So there will be more than one block of free space. Does
that make sense? The free space wont be in one block.

 

[Stan Brown]

Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:41:05 -0000 from Mike Hood

Call me simple, but if you defrag your files, surely your free space is of
necessity defragged too..?

Dear simple, (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

For simplicity, suppose you have three files. A is defragged and
placed at the start of the partition, B in the middle, and C at the
end. The files are now defragged but free space is in two fragments.

In other words, individual files can be defragmented but if they
aren't written one right after the other then free space will be
fragmented.

 

[Mike Hood]

Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:41:05 -0000 from Mike Hood


Dear simple, (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

For simplicity, suppose you have three files. A is defragged and
placed at the start of the partition, B in the middle, and C at the
end. The files are now defragged but free space is in two fragments.

In other words, individual files can be defragmented but if they
aren't written one right after the other then free space will be
fragmented.

Thanks both, that makes sense - I just assumed defragmenter programs always
consolidated too. I remember many a wasted hour (well...) in front of
Windows 95's defragmenter, watching it draw all files together at the
beginning of the partition as it did its stuff (or so the mesmerising
graphic implied). Does XP's defragger not do this? Seems daft, if Win95's
could...