Debate - should Spyware/Adware fall within Virus Definition.

[David]

Dear Group,

Something to debate.

Commercial Interests aside...

I believe that the overall label Computer Virus should cover Adware and
Spyware.

Originally I believe that the Virus term was used to define a program that
spread within a system, like a Viral agent does in the human body. However
not all Viruses do that.... therefore the term is already an umbrella label
for a multitude of different infectious programs... so why not include
Spyware and Adware.

If you went into a High Street shop and someone injected you with a
radioactive dye so that 'Shop Big Brother' could track you in Town, I'm sure
you'd go to a Doctor for treatment, just as you would with an illness that
required a cure, you probably wouldn't seek the remedy from a seperate
source. Although knowing shops they'd probably sell the antidote, with a two
for one offer.

Cheers

David.

 

[David H. Lipman]

From: "David" <[email protected]>

| Dear Group,
|
| Something to debate.
|
| Commercial Interests aside...
|
| I believe that the overall label Computer Virus should cover Adware and
| Spyware.
|
| Originally I believe that the Virus term was used to define a program that
| spread within a system, like a Viral agent does in the human body. However
| not all Viruses do that.... therefore the term is already an umbrella label
| for a multitude of different infectious programs... so why not include
| Spyware and Adware.
|
| If you went into a High Street shop and someone injected you with a
| radioactive dye so that 'Shop Big Brother' could track you in Town, I'm sure
| you'd go to a Doctor for treatment, just as you would with an illness that
| required a cure, you probably wouldn't seek the remedy from a seperate
| source. Although knowing shops they'd probably sell the antidote, with a two
| for one offer.
|
| Cheers
|
| David.
|

I don't think so because both already fall under the overarching concept of malware.

 

[null]

Dear Group,

Something to debate.

Commercial Interests aside...

I believe that the overall label Computer Virus should cover Adware and
Spyware.

As David Lipman pointed out, the term "malware" is the preferred term.
Not "virus". The term "malware" means "malicious software" and it
covers all the ground.

Originally I believe that the Virus term was used to define a program that
spread within a system,

The definition(s) of virus remain unchanged.

like a Viral agent does in the human body. However
not all Viruses do that.... therefore the term is already an umbrella label
for a multitude of different infectious programs... so why not include
Spyware and Adware.

Spyware and Adware have been increasingly detected by antivirus
products for quite some time now. The problem is the ancient term
"antivirus" instead of "antimalware".

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[Roger Wilco]

Dear Group,

Something to debate.

Commercial Interests aside...

I believe that the overall label Computer Virus should cover Adware and
Spyware.

It already does if you let common usage define meaning.

The fact is that computer 'virus' is already defined with
self-replication being a major point (and sometimes the only point) and
'adware and spyware' may or may not self-replicate so should not use
that term.

Originally I believe that the Virus term was used to define a program that
spread within a system, like a Viral agent does in the human body.

Not quite, but close enough I suppose. It replicates, so it must spread
too - in this case within a system as a program infector. But originally
the 'system' was a 'Turing Machine' and the virus only replicated
itself - no 'infection' because no filesystem for program files, or
other devices for program storage were defined.

However not all Viruses do that....

The fact that some viruses are communicable (from 'system to system')
does not make them not viruses - bio or otherwise.

therefore the term is already an umbrella label
for a multitude of different infectious programs... so why not include
Spyware and Adware.

Because it is not 'infection' but 'self-replication' that defines a
virus at its most basic level.

If you went into a High Street shop and someone injected you with a
radioactive dye so that 'Shop Big Brother' could track you in Town, I'm sure
you'd go to a Doctor for treatment,

Yep, but he wouldn't have to be a virologist - that's for sure.

 

[optikl]

Dear Group,

Something to debate.

Commercial Interests aside...

I believe that the overall label Computer Virus should cover Adware and
Spyware.

Why? Do adware and spyware replicate.

Originally I believe that the Virus term was used to define a program that
spread within a system, like a Viral agent does in the human body. However
not all Viruses do that....

Really? Which viruses don't behave like viruses? The ones that aren't?


therefore the term is already an umbrella label

Not really. Malware is an umbrella label.

for a multitude of different infectious programs... so why not include
Spyware and Adware.

'cause. See above.

 

[kurt wismer]

Dear Group,

Something to debate.

Commercial Interests aside...

I believe that the overall label Computer Virus should cover Adware and
Spyware.

stop taking whatever mind altering chemical you're on...

Originally I believe that the Virus term was used to define a program that
spread within a system, like a Viral agent does in the human body. However
not all Viruses do that

yes they do...

.... therefore the term is already an umbrella label
for a multitude of different infectious programs

to be infectious implies they're 'spreading' from one host to another so
apparently you're contradicting your previous statement that not all
viruses spread...

... so why not include
Spyware and Adware.

the term virus is very well defined, it is a functional definition and
it works very well... adware and spyware are also very well defined and
don't necessarily fall under the virus definition...

you want an umbrella term? one already exists... the term is *malware*...

you want anti-virus products to detect non-viral malware? vote with your
wallet, don't redefine terms so that they're more convenient for you...

 

[David]

You say below ...

yes they do...

But actually Computer Viruses don't all behave in the same manner and
there's absolutely no point in giving you a lesson in different types of
Computer Viruses when you can check out any On-line Encylopedia; Norton,
Trend etc.

You say
to be infectious implies they're 'spreading' from one host to another

Okay, Spyware and Adware does this, from the originator to your system.

You say

you're contradicting your previous statement

An agent can be infectious but not spread... a localised infection.

Kurt, I'd rather be on a mind altering drug than a narrow minded one.

Regards

David.

p.s If you notice I said spread within a system... like a replicator virus
for example, so my point stands.

 

[David]

I accept that Malware is a term used.

Short for malicious software, software designed specifically to damage or
disrupt a system.

Again this is slightly misleading because not all infectious programs cause
damage or disruption.

Undesired Software might be a better term.

'Underware'

That's a better Generic Term.

I'll Copyright that here and Now

David Williamson 2005

'Underware' - short for any undesired software that is loaded by any means
onto a Computer without the express wish or knowledge of the owner;
including Viruses, Malware, Trojans, Adware, Spyware and the like.

Underware

Now I'm happier. We just need underware removal software.

Anyboy want to market this and make millions E-mail me privately.

Regards

David.

 

[null]

'Underware' - short for any undesired software that is loaded by any means
onto a Computer without the express wish or knowledge of the owner;
including Viruses, Malware, Trojans, Adware, Spyware and the like.

Now all you have to do is convince av vendors to advertise their
products as "antiunderware". Thanks for this morning's chuckle

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[David]

Underware removal utilities ...

It's a winner...

 

[null]

Underware removal utilities ...

It's a winner...

Not to get overly pedantic, but there's a difference between dedicated
underware removal utilities and antiunderware

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[David H. Lipman]

From: <[email protected]>


|
| Not to get overly pedantic, but there's a difference between dedicated
| underware removal utilities and antiunderware
|
| Art
|
| http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

I wouldn't touch auntie-underware with a 10' pole ;-)

BTW: I think Laura couild have a field day with "underware removal utilities."

 

[David]

We'll do both as a package..

Ladies especially love Underware and a good Package..

Software and Hardware jokes pending... and no it doesn't come with a
floppy...

 

[jamesemorrow]

We'll do both as a package..

Ladies especially love Underware and a good Package..

Software and Hardware jokes pending... and no it doesn't come with a
floppy...

Thank for the brief update.

 

[kurt wismer]

I accept that Malware is a term used.

Short for malicious software, software designed specifically to damage or
disrupt a system.

Again this is slightly misleading because not all infectious programs cause
damage or disruption.

the infected host has it's integrity corrupted, by definition (an
infector cannot infect without changing something)... that is sufficient
to call the infector 'malware'...

 

[kurt wismer]

You say below ...

please learn to quote properly...

yes they do...

But actually Computer Viruses don't all behave in the same manner and
there's absolutely no point in giving you a lesson in different types of
Computer Viruses when you can check out any On-line Encylopedia; Norton,
Trend etc.

there's no point in giving me a lesson in different types computer
viruses period... all viruses spread... you can't be a self-replicating
program without spreading...

You say
to be infectious implies they're 'spreading' from one host to another

Okay, Spyware and Adware does this, from the originator to your system.

spyware and adware don't spread themselves, other agents spread them...

You say

you're contradicting your previous statement

An agent can be infectious but not spread... a localised infection.

a localized infection just means localized spreading...

Kurt, I'd rather be on a mind altering drug than a narrow minded one.

Regards

David.

p.s If you notice I said spread within a system... like a replicator virus
for example, so my point stands.

you're point is not pointy... all viruses spread... if you think
otherwise then name one that doesn't...

 

[David]

Kurt says

you're point is not pointy... all viruses spread... if you think
otherwise then name one that doesn't...



Okay...

Introgen's INGN 241, a non-replicating virus that transfects cancer cells
with mda-7

 

[kurt wismer]

Kurt says

kurt says you still need to learn how to quote properly...

you're point is not pointy... all viruses spread... if you think
otherwise then name one that doesn't...

Okay...

Introgen's INGN 241, a non-replicating virus that transfects cancer cells
with mda-7

y'know, it's generally accepted that when one says 'virus' in a computer
virus related newsgroup one is referring to computer viruses... to refer
to biological viruses it's usually required that you specify the
biological part in order to disambiguate your statements...

apparently somewhere you failed to do so - all *computer* viruses
spread... computer viruses were so named because of a *loose* analogy
with their biological counterparts been established long ago that the
analogy is not perfect... the term computer virus is well defined, as
are adware and spyware, and while they can intersect adware and spyware
do not generally meet the defining requirements necessary to be a
computer virus and therefore should not be called computer viruses...