Database Alternative

[Jamie Macleod]

Hi Ginny,

Thanks. For sure, let me know. You can tell me on this forum or the VO
forum.

Jamie

 

[Guest]

CR [Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:06:10 +0100]:

I wonder why you SQL guys always think that SQL is an advantage.

Sql was designed for mid-level managers to use to look up prices
(haha, but I'm serious). I'm not anti-sql, but if all you know
is sql everything looks like a 10d nail.

Speed? You won't find the limit except here:

http://gt40.40th.com/bench_gt40_arm.html

About 10,000% (literally) faster than anything I've seen posted
here (from you, specifically), but no, nothing to do with slow-
as-molasses-in-winter CF. I don't even start measuring until
25k items, since anything less is done before you release the
start button.

For something completely different, try here

http://40th.com/pic/index.html

But no, nothing that could ever been done in CF. This sort of
app is just not possible to do in CF.

 

[Carl Rosenberger]

Looks like a good product, but I wouldn't use it because I don't
like your licensing.

Could you please tell me what's wrong with our licensing?

This might not be on topic in this newsgroup so feel free
to write a personal mail.

We try to provide every developer and every customer with
a fair deal that is appropriate for his/her needs. You can
get anything you want if you can describe why you need it.

Kind regards,
Carl

 

[Jamie Macleod]

Carl,

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I just don't like it myself.
I don't like tying my self to another company financially on a percentage
basis.

Jamie

 

[Carl Rosenberger]

http://gt40.40th.com/bench_gt40_arm.html

About 10,000% (literally) faster than anything I've seen posted
here (from you, specifically), but no, nothing to do with slow-
as-molasses-in-winter CF. I don't even start measuring until
25k items, since anything less is done before you release the
start button.

Your figures are very nice but how would you use them and with
which programming language?

How would the following queries look like with GT40:

SqlCe
-----
String SQL = "SELECT Molecule.ID, Molecule.Name
FROM Molecule, Atom
WHERE Atom.MoleculeID = Molecule.ID
AND Molecule.Weight <= 18
AND Atom.Weight = 1"
SqlCeCommand cmd = new SqlCeCommand(SQL, connection);
cmd.CommandType = CommandType.Text;
SqlCeDataReader dtr = cmd.ExecuteReader();


db4o S.O.D.A.
-------------

Query q = objectContainer.query();
q.constrain(typeof(Molecule));
q.descend("weight").constrain(19).smaller().equal();
q.descend("atoms").descend("weight").constrain(1);
ObjectSet objectSet = q.execute();


And how would you bind your result to a DataGrid control?


db4o
----
dataGrid1.DataSource = new ObjectSetCollection(objectContainer, q.execute());



We built our engine with C#, using the subset of functionality available
for the CompactFramework. Obviously that's not the fastest of choices for
numbercrunching but we got some nice rewards:

- Our engine can run on CompactFramework or along with .NET or Mono in
stand-alone applications or webservers.

- Since we can deliver sets of objects, implementing IList, it's very
convenient to use the databinding functionality available with .NET.

- Performance is "good enough" for the usecases that our customers approach
us with.

- Coding and schema management is very convenient:
You just write your application classes.

- Deployment is simple: You just need our database engine .DLL and
a database file.

- We supply client/server functionality and it's dead simple to
transfer objects. You can connect to a db4o server on your PC and run
a local database on your PocketPC at the same time. Objects can be
moved and copied between open ObjectContainers.


What do your customers use "GT40" for?
I suppose we are targetting different customers.


Kind regards,
Carl

 

[Carl Rosenberger]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I just don't like it myself.
I don't like tying my self to another company financially on a percentage
basis.

You don't have to.

If you need 100 licenses for amount X, tell us about it and I am
sure we can produce a fair offer.

Kind regards,
Carl

 

[Jamie Macleod]

Carl,

I have no idea what you mean by "100 licenses for amount X".

From your web site it looks like I have two options. Site licenses or a
percentage. "Make me a deal" might count as a third option, but isn't real
clear.

Your web site:
commercial deployment
Any use of db4o with the intent of generating financial benefits for anyone
is regarded as commercial use and requires a commercial license. Due to the
variety of different usecases, offers are negotiated individually.

Site licenses at a yearly rate are preferred.

For embedded use of db4o in your products, you can expect an offer at 3% of
your expected end-user revenues.

Please send inquiries that describe your intended use to (e-mail address removed).

 

[Carl Rosenberger]

I have no idea what you mean by "100 licenses for amount X".

Tell us the license model that you need and your dream price
and you will get it, if we think it's fair. It's up to you
to persuade us.

Your web site:
commercial deployment
Any use of db4o with the intent of generating financial benefits for anyone
is regarded as commercial use and requires a commercial license. Due to the
variety of different usecases, offers are negotiated individually.

The last sentence describes your third choice:
Please talk to us.

Please send inquiries that describe your intended use to (e-mail address removed).

And I think that's where the discussion should continue
so we don't get onto too many people's nerves here.


Kind regards,
Carl

 

[Boris Nienke]

Carl,

I have no idea what you mean by "100 licenses for amount X".

From your web site it looks like I have two options. Site licenses or a
percentage. "Make me a deal" might count as a third option, but isn't real
clear.

first of all, i call the support when i see a price somewhere. Then try to
get a better deal. This is mostly allways possible and with every company.

db4o has _GREAT_ support. They have fixed issues (and implemented new)
faster, then i was able to drive home...

first i decided to not buy it, because of the licence... but then i decided
to ask them. I described them what i plan (for example i have some freeware
- but what now? or very cheap shareware... and now? etc...) and they offer
me a good deal.

Now i'm a db4o user.

Boris

 

[Boris Nienke]

I wonder why you SQL guys always think that SQL is an advantage.

It's a hassle for the developer to construct SQL strings and it
consumes a lot of time for the database engine to parse strings.

yes, Carl, right... but belive me: SQL could be a good feature. It really
depends on what you like to do and what you have learned.

You know all my "stupid" questions about SODA-Querys... because i'm a
long-time SQL-User.

But it's true: i allways have classes (objects) to handle with informations
in my application... storing and retrieving them with db4o is really
simple. So when i had finished my classes i was able to store them in
nearly zero-time (OK, i took me some Minutes to include the Open/Close the
the .Set(MyClass) in the sources

Boris

 

[Nonymous]

Hello All,

We are developing .NET CF & DESKTOP interface for SQLITE database
(www.sqlite.org) Its in a beta state and I want to inform you some
test results about it. You can use it with VB. NET or C# for CF or
DESKTOP. You can easily transfer SQLITE database device to desktop or
else, and you can create/fill/use your db on desktop and then just
copy to device for use.

Test Device : IPAQ 2210,

Library returns query results as DataTable objects so, you can use it
directly with databound objects likes dbgrid etc.

Record Length (100 byte, 1 integer primary key)

Insert 10,000 record takes 17 second
Select Query for 10,000 record takes 8 second

Insert 10,000 record to MMC card takes 24 second
Select Query for 10,000 record from MMC card takes 10 second

Regards.

PocketSYNC Team

Woo hoo! I had looked at SQLite a couple months ago. I'd very much still
like to use it for a home grown project I'm working on.
I had compiled up the C++ WinCE port that's out there and had it working. I
was very impressed by the speed and the database sizes. But the lack of C#
interface was a show stopper for me since I'm trying to limit myself to
CLR-only code only for the project. I had played around with the idea of
writing a wrapper DLL for it on my own but after I did some code experiments
and thought things through, I decided such an effort would take too long and
my end result would likely be hokey. Too bad eVC++ doesn't support the
Managed C++ code extensions as it would be much more 'doable' (there's
already an ADO.Net interface for sqlite available but it's only
usable/compilable within normal .Net Framework).
In the end I decided to go with InTheHand which. Although their ADO.Net
interface to PocketAccess .cdb files is nice, the limitations of
pocketaccess itself are pretty severe. (No unique indexes? doh!).

 

[Christian Schwarz]

Hello bumerang,
does your work with the .NET CF interface for the SQLITE datebase make
progess ? When will the first version be available ?

Regards, Christian