'Copy Drive' feature of Symantec's GHOST 10

[billurie]

On the subject of copying an entire partition
which contains an OS plus many applications,
I'd like peoples' experiences vis-a-vis this:

I've tried everything Symantec could direct me to do,
and the bottom line is that Copy Drive in GHOST 10
will NOT Copy a Drive (for me) successfully, to yield
a bootable clone of the original. That feature never
worked for me when it was PowerQuest's Drive Image 7,
and it never worked for me when I tried that 'feature'
of PowerQuest's Partition Magic 8.

Yes, I've been successful in producing a clone by the
Drive Image and Recovery process, both in Drive Image 7
and GHOST 10. But that is a distinctly different two-
step process. "Copy a Drive" I can't make play.


William B. Lurie

 

[Brian A.]

Is the HD being copied to set as the Slave?
When copying, are you only copying 1 partition at a time as required?
When copying c:\ to separate drive, in the copy options are you selecting:
Set drive active?
Copy MBR?
Destination partition type?
Drive letter?

After copying are you:
Setting the old disk as Slave and new as Master?
Removing old disk, setting new as Master and booting to it?

Do you have the Retail version of Ghost 10? If so Ghost 2003 is included with it
which has the Clone function instead of Copy. With Clone you can select the entire
drive w/partitions or select a single partition.


--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

 

[billurie]

Thank you, Brian. The answer to all your questions, down
to the <><><><><><>......is yes. After that, "after copying",
I remove both drives, set jumper on clone as Master,
put it alone on the IDE cable as Master. It does not boot
all the way, hangs at light blue Windows logo screen. As
I said, this is the third version to do the same thing, and
Symantec has spent a dozen go-arounds of fixes you wouldn't
believe (including 'Sysprep') to no avail. That's why I
asked whether it works for other people.

Is the HD being copied to set as the Slave?
When copying, are you only copying 1 partition at a time as required?
When copying c:\ to separate drive, in the copy options are you selecting:
Set drive active?
Copy MBR?
Destination partition type?
Drive letter?

After copying are you:
Setting the old disk as Slave and new as Master?
Removing old disk, setting new as Master and booting to it?

Do you have the Retail version of Ghost 10? If so Ghost 2003 is
included with it which has the Clone function instead of Copy. With
Clone you can select the entire drive w/partitions or select a single
partition.

Yes, I have retail version, Norton System Works 2006 Premier,
with GHOST built-in. Are you telling me that I have a version
of GHOST which will make a clone in one pass, just like their
'Copy Drive' is supposed to?

BTW, I *never* try to clone or copy more than one partition
at a time, always the Master in first position on its drive,
and the Slave always the first (or only) partition on its
drive.
Bill Lurie

 

[Richard Urban]

Why are you trying to copy the drive? It IS an important question.

Many people copy a drive that is failing, to a spare drive, of questionable
status, that they happen to have laying around their equipment cabinet.
Sound familiar?

The whole purpose of Drive Copy is to replace a well working smaller hard
drive with a larger hard drive which has zero defects initially. It is not
really meant as a "rescue" technique, as many seem to think.

I have "never" had any problems imaging, copying, cloning - or whatever a
company may call the process - using either Drive Image 2002, Drive Image 7,
Ghost 9, Ghost 10 or TrueImage 8 or 9 **when copying from a known good drive
to a known good drive on known good equipment (RAM, motherboard, cables
etc).

If either of the drives, or the equipment they are connected to, are
questionable, in the least amount, then all bets are off. And, a new - out
of the box - drive is not necessarily error free, any more than new RAM is
error free (until it has proven itself under stressful operating
conditions). I find this problem way too frequently, most recently with a
bunch of W.D. drives. A few years back it was Maxtor drives. Before that it
was I.B.M. deathstar drives.

Bill, you seem to have an inordinate amount of problems with this type of
program - a program that millions use without any significant problem at
all. If the modules did NOT work as advertised, there would be a general
**howling** that would be beyond belief. There is not!

You have either technique problems or hardware problems that are preventing
good copies from being produced. Hell, it could be sub-standard RAM, a flaky
IDE channel on a motherboard, cables, plugs, excess heat - almost anything.

Again, and I can't stress this enough.

***The time to make an image or a drive copy is when the operating system
and equipment is in a known good state***.

Why would one want to create an image/copy if it were not as such?

I do hope that you can get your problem cleared so you can go about enjoying
your computer, instead of fighting it.

Re-read the operating instructions that came with the program you are using
at this moment. Re-read them, even if you have done so before. Don't skip
over sections that you think are "simple". Your answer may lay within that
section. If your equipment is not bad, you are missing something in the
instructions.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[billurie]

Why are you trying to copy the drive? It IS an important question.

Many people copy a drive that is failing, to a spare drive, of questionable
status, that they happen to have laying around their equipment cabinet.
Sound familiar?

The whole purpose of Drive Copy is to replace a well working smaller hard
drive with a larger hard drive which has zero defects initially. It is not
really meant as a "rescue" technique, as many seem to think.

I have "never" had any problems imaging, copying, cloning - or whatever a
company may call the process - using either Drive Image 2002, Drive Image 7,
Ghost 9, Ghost 10 or TrueImage 8 or 9 **when copying from a known good drive
to a known good drive on known good equipment (RAM, motherboard, cables
etc).

If either of the drives, or the equipment they are connected to, are
questionable, in the least amount, then all bets are off. And, a new - out
of the box - drive is not necessarily error free, any more than new RAM is
error free (until it has proven itself under stressful operating
conditions). I find this problem way too frequently, most recently with a
bunch of W.D. drives. A few years back it was Maxtor drives. Before that it
was I.B.M. deathstar drives.

Bill, you seem to have an inordinate amount of problems with this type of
program - a program that millions use without any significant problem at
all. If the modules did NOT work as advertised, there would be a general
**howling** that would be beyond belief. There is not!

You have either technique problems or hardware problems that are preventing
good copies from being produced. Hell, it could be sub-standard RAM, a flaky
IDE channel on a motherboard, cables, plugs, excess heat - almost anything.

Again, and I can't stress this enough.

***The time to make an image or a drive copy is when the operating system
and equipment is in a known good state***.

Why would one want to create an image/copy if it were not as such?

I do hope that you can get your problem cleared so you can go about enjoying
your computer, instead of fighting it.

Re-read the operating instructions that came with the program you are using
at this moment. Re-read them, even if you have done so before. Don't skip
over sections that you think are "simple". Your answer may lay within that
section. If your equipment is not bad, you are missing something in the
instructions.

I knew I'd be hearing from you, Richard, in loud, clear tones.
I have no fault to find with any part of your advice, which I
respect because it was you who solved my problems with Drive
Image 7 to make the drive image, and their PQRE to recreate
a bootable copy of the original. That I can do those reliably
now, seems to me as verification of my equipment's integrity.

In truth, I make the backup clones which my own disposition
demands, using Drive Image 7 and its successor, GHOST 10,
using the two step process; you guided me to that. But it
irks me that I can't make the single-step "Copy Drive" process
work. I'm pursuing it because it's there and it should work,
and you imply that the one-step copy process yields bootable
clones for you. The only thing missing is a positive statement
from you, that the one-step "Copy Drive" process does indeed
yield fully bootable copies.

 

[Brian A.]

I'm sorry, all bets are off. You only mentioned Norton Ghost 10, you never
mentioned NSW Prem 2006. AFAIK NSW Prem 2006 has included in the retail box NSW 2005
which has Ghost 9.0, which also has the copy and not the clone feature. If you
could get a hold of Ghost 2003 or earlier you would have the clone feature. Sorry I
can't help any further other than to mention check what's on the CD, perhaps it has
Ghost 2003, doubtful though.


--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

 

[Richard Urban]

1.
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPOR...2005052419404662?OpenDocument&src=hot&seg=hho

2.
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPOR...2004111701520562?OpenDocument&src=hot&seg=hho

It could be something as simple as you not setting your new drive as active,
which it needs to be to boot. Without being there to look over your
shoulder, as you choose the various options, I really don't know where you
could be going wrong.

Just 3 weeks ago I decided to upgrade my system. I had two IDE 160 gig
ATA-100 drives. I wanted two 160 gig SATA drives. I used Ghost 10 to copy
both of the ATA-100 drives to the new SATA drives. I then removed the IDE
drives and installed the SATA drives in the cribs (they had been laying on
an insulated mat outside of the computer). I modified the bios to boot from
the SATA drives.

Initially the main drive would not boot. I had been expecting this, as there
were no SATA drivers in the system when I copied the drives. I booted from
the Windows XP CD, When setup started, I installed the SATA drivers from a
floppy . I then continued to perform a repair install. When done, everything
worked as desired.

A year ago I just copied one 160 gig IDE drive to a second 160 gig drive.
The second drive booted fine.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[billurie]

1.
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPOR...2005052419404662?OpenDocument&src=hot&seg=hho

2.
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPOR...2004111701520562?OpenDocument&src=hot&seg=hho

It could be something as simple as you not setting your new drive as active,
which it needs to be to boot. Without being there to look over your
shoulder, as you choose the various options, I really don't know where you
could be going wrong.

Just 3 weeks ago I decided to upgrade my system. I had two IDE 160 gig
ATA-100 drives. I wanted two 160 gig SATA drives. I used Ghost 10 to copy
both of the ATA-100 drives to the new SATA drives. I then removed the IDE
drives and installed the SATA drives in the cribs (they had been laying on
an insulated mat outside of the computer). I modified the bios to boot from
the SATA drives.

Initially the main drive would not boot. I had been expecting this, as there
were no SATA drivers in the system when I copied the drives. I booted from
the Windows XP CD, When setup started, I installed the SATA drivers from a
floppy . I then continued to perform a repair install. When done, everything
worked as desired.

A year ago I just copied one 160 gig IDE drive to a second 160 gig drive.
The second drive booted fine.

That's definitive enough for me. Now I have
to track back and see if my new helper has
a point about GHOST 10 and/or NSW 2006 Prem.

 

[billurie]

I'm sorry, all bets are off. You only mentioned Norton Ghost 10, you
never mentioned NSW Prem 2006. AFAIK NSW Prem 2006 has included in the
retail box NSW 2005 which has Ghost 9.0, which also has the copy and
not the clone feature. If you could get a hold of Ghost 2003 or earlier
you would have the clone feature. Sorry I can't help any further other
than to mention check what's on the CD, perhaps it has Ghost 2003,
doubtful though.

Yes, Brian, 2006 Prem does have some other stuff on the CD,
but I simply installed NSW using all defaults right out
of the box, printed out the 47-page manual, and followed
the instructions. I'm naive enough to feel that if I
follow the instructions, I'm doing the right thing and it
should work. You know the routine, "If all else fails, read
the instructions". I have stayed away from the earlier
versions.

 

[Brian A.]

Send a PM to postmaster02 at comcast.net and I'll see what I can do for ya.

--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

 

[Wquuinn]

On the subject of copying an entire partition
which contains an OS plus many applications,
I'd like peoples' experiences vis-a-vis this:

I've tried everything Symantec could direct me to do,
and the bottom line is that Copy Drive in GHOST 10
will NOT Copy a Drive (for me) successfully, to yield
a bootable clone of the original. That feature never
worked for me when it was PowerQuest's Drive Image 7,
and it never worked for me when I tried that 'feature'
of PowerQuest's Partition Magic 8.

Yes, I've been successful in producing a clone by the
Drive Image and Recovery process, both in Drive Image 7
and GHOST 10. But that is a distinctly different two-
step process. "Copy a Drive" I can't make play.


William B. Lurie

I have two drives in my computer and they are the same size.
Drive D is used as a backup in case I have trouble booting
with C drive or some software problems.

I have been using Ghost for years to copy C drive to D drive
as a backup and I must tell you that I have had to use D
drive to copy a working system back to C drive a few times
when I have had trouble.

Currently I am using a floppy disk which starts PC DOS to
run the program. This disk was made by using Ghost 2003.
And yes I installed a floppy disk drive in my new computer
just to run Ghost.

I do this each weekend to insure that I will be able to copy
D drive to C drive if I have any booting or software
problems occur with C drive.

It works well for me. If you have problems it takes any
where from 10 to 50 minutes to copy the files (depending on
the size of your disk drive.

Bquinn

 

[Brian A.]

I have two drives in my computer and they are the same size. Drive D is used as a
backup in case I have trouble booting with C drive or some software problems.

I have been using Ghost for years to copy C drive to D drive as a backup and I must
tell you that I have had to use D drive to copy a working system back to C drive a
few times when I have had trouble.

It appears that you are restoring an image of the drive, not copying or cloning.
If you were to copy/clone a drive partition to another dirive/partition, you are
essentially creating a working bootable disk and there is no need to copy the files
back to the original drive. All that one needs to do is swap out the active bootable
disks. When you create a backup image of a drive/partition, you are not
copying/cloning the destination drive to be bootable, you are only saving a
restorable image on it in case something goes wrong with the source disk, which can
then be rstored by the saved image.

Currently I am using a floppy disk which starts PC DOS to run the program. This
disk was made by using Ghost 2003. And yes I installed a floppy disk drive in my
new computer just to run Ghost.

You don't need a floppy Ghost boot disk w/2003, you can boot Ghost from the install
CD or a command prompt path to ghost.exe on the drive. As well, if one wishes they
can create a CD/DVD startup disk w/Ghost to access images.

I do this each weekend to insure that I will be able to copy D drive to C drive if
I have any booting or software problems occur with C drive.

What if you make any critical system changes, install/uninstall software, update
apps/files, install MS Crit Updates and something goes bang on Thursday? You have
lost at the least 4 days of work/changes that aren't recoverable from the last backup
image. The safe way is to create an image before any critical changes are made and
after any critical files/docs are created/updated you need are in case something goes
bang. Of course, instead of creating an entire image every time just because a
file/doc was created/updated, it's best to have a separate incremental image for
those.

It works well for me. If you have problems it takes any where from 10 to 50
minutes to copy the files (depending on the size of your disk drive.

Lordy, I wish mine would complete in that time. Those days are Scarlett O'hara.


--

Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Shell/User }
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

 

[Hawkins]

On the subject of copying an entire partition
which contains an OS plus many applications,
I'd like peoples' experiences vis-a-vis this:

I've tried everything Symantec could direct me to do,
and the bottom line is that Copy Drive in GHOST 10
will NOT Copy a Drive (for me) successfully, to yield
a bootable clone of the original. That feature never
worked for me when it was PowerQuest's Drive Image 7,
and it never worked for me when I tried that 'feature'
of PowerQuest's Partition Magic 8.

Yes, I've been successful in producing a clone by the
Drive Image and Recovery process, both in Drive Image 7
and GHOST 10. But that is a distinctly different two-
step process. "Copy a Drive" I can't make play.


William B. Lurie

Hello Bill,
It has been a while since I last dropped in. I am sure that with the help
here and your determination you will eventually achieve your objective.
However I would like to share with you and others a method of working with
backup images that I have developed. It may already be used by others but I
have seen no reference to it. I use Acronis True Image but the same
principles can be applied to most other imaging programs.
The minimum equipment is three hard drives and an exchangeable hard drive
carrier fitted into a spare 5.5 inch bay. One drive is set as a slave and
this stays in the computer. The other two drives are both Master drives and
reside in removable drive drawers. At any one time one of the Masters is in
use and the other is the backup which can be taken off site for overnight
security.
Backup and restores are all done from one internal drive to another. These
processes are far faster than using any form of external media. The key to
this method is that backup images are Proven after their creation by
swapping the main drives and restoring.
So this is what you get:- A history of backups only limited by the size of
the backup drive. The ability to replace a failed or corrupted master drive
with a perfect and known working one that is as up to date as the last back
up.
For the method to give best value I always image the whole of the Master
drive and for speed and ease I do not use incremental or differential
backups. I do not know if Ghost 10 can run scheduled whole disk images
whilst still booted in Windows because I find this a great time saver. My
schedule runs the backups when I am at lunch. On return I swap the main
drives and restore. With my rather slow computer and 16 GB of data my total
time involvement is less then 15 minutes per backup session.

Hope this helps.
Richard W Hawkins AKA Xpilot.

 

[Todd]

I havn't been following this thread, and I am coming in late, but if there
is any question about your hardware, download the utility software from the
drive manufacturers, and do the diagnostic checks. If you have any
questions about your RAM, you can check that too.

I know you don't have any other reason to suspect your hardware, but
something is going wrong, and you need to start eliminating things.

Todd

 

[billurie]

Yes, Todd, but the tests that come with Seagate and W-D
are piyifully weak.......thanks, though.

I havn't been following this thread, and I am coming in late, but if there
is any question about your hardware, download the utility software from the
drive manufacturers, and do the diagnostic checks. If you have any
questions about your RAM, you can check that too.

I know you don't have any other reason to suspect your hardware, but
something is going wrong, and you need to start eliminating things.

Todd

--

 

[JustMe]

I use Ghost 2003 to make a clone of my XP boot drive all the time as part of
my backup procedure. I boot from floppy and Ghost 2003 runs in dos. I have
never had a problem with the clone not working and the nice thing about it
is that the clone is defragged in the process. I believe Ghost 2003 comes
with Ghost 10.

 

[Wquuinn]

Brian you need to read my message again. The copy of one
hard drive to another hard drive is not restoring an image.
And yes I know you can boot from the Norton CD, but I choose
not to boot with the CD when I can use a floppy with PC DOS.
DOS is still a great avenue to copy disks.

Again I say - my system works for me and has worked for
years.

Bquinn

 

[billurie]

Send a PM to postmaster02 at comcast.net and I'll see what I can do for
ya.

I don't dig your meaning in the above, Brian.
BTW, NSW2006 Prem comes with some other software on
the CD, some not mentioned in any instructions or manual.
On the CD I see GHOSTNT whose software opens up to
claim its identity as GHOST 10. There also are folders
for the various components, like Checkit, GoBack, Manual,
NAV, NCU, NPM, NSW, NU, PTest, Support, Tutorial, and
VirusDef. And also.....NSW2005 (but no earlier). If they
had something worth trying, I still own NSW2005 and
NSW2004 original CDs.

 

[billurie]

WQ: The various ways to create a working clone of an OS
do have confusing names. The process of creating a
"drive image", a condensed non-bootable image of the
Master, and then "Recovering" that to an exact clone
of the original, bootable, is a two-step process which
I have made work...dependably.

The process known as "Copy Disk" is a one-step process,
whereby a Master is supposed to be exactly duplicated on
a Slave drive, which then is supposed to be a bootable
exact clone of the original. I'm trying to make that work
because it's easier than a two-step time-consuming process.
Funny thing about my lack of success is that the "Copied Drive"
will boot and function smoothly in Slave position on the IDE
cable, but hangs in the light blue Logo screen when booting
as a Master. Obviously the MBR or something up front like
that is not being copied, but half a dozen Symantec techies
haven't been able to get it fixed. I'm still pursuing this
because so many people say it works.....and Symantec owes
it to me. As I said, I can make clones by the two-step
Drive Image and then Restore (old PQRE in PowerQuest language)
but Mount Everest is still there to be climbed.

 

[billurie]

About various models called "GHOST".....I've been calling the model
I can't make do a "Copy Drive" GHOST 10 because a Manual came built
into NSW 2006 Premier, and the first of its 47 pages says "GHOST 10" on it.

Now, after all the advice about older models that work, I'd like to know
if anybody specifically has used GHOST 10, in the "Copy my Drive" direct
one-pass-copy mode, and has succeeded therewith to produce a bootable
clone of a Master OS.