Computer freezes

[Alex]

Hello,

I recently built a machine from spare parts but it is very unstable.

Usually within half an hour to an hour from booting Win2K it will totally freeze. The only thing that will continue working is mouse pointer positioning. If I immediately reset it, the situation will repeat after a similar time frame. Usually happens when using the browser. Did not happen when left under DOS running the screen saver of Norton Commander (don't ask!) for several hours.

Motherboard: ASUS P5A rev 1.06, flashed latest BIOS (1011.005)
CPU: K6-2/400
Memory: One Infineon(?) 256MB PC133 DIMM (at 3-2-2)
PCI Cards: Diamond Fireport 40 (worked in another box for years without problems)
AGP: ATI AIW 8500 (never tested before), running "Catalist 3.8" drivers
OS: Win2K SP4 with latest patches from "windows update"
Drives: 2 ATA33 hard drives and 1 floppy connected to the board, 1 Plextor CD-ROM connected to the Fireport
Misc: PS/2 style mouse and keyboard, HSF on CPU, case left open

What can cause the problem?

Thank you!

 

[dgk]

Hello,

I recently built a machine from spare parts but it is very unstable.

Usually within half an hour to an hour from booting Win2K it will totally freeze. The only thing that will continue working is mouse pointer positioning. If I immediately reset it, the situation will repeat after a similar time frame. Usually happens when using the browser. Did not happen when left under DOS running the screen saver of Norton Commander (don't ask!) for several hours.

Motherboard: ASUS P5A rev 1.06, flashed latest BIOS (1011.005)
CPU: K6-2/400
Memory: One Infineon(?) 256MB PC133 DIMM (at 3-2-2)
PCI Cards: Diamond Fireport 40 (worked in another box for years without problems)
AGP: ATI AIW 8500 (never tested before), running "Catalist 3.8" drivers
OS: Win2K SP4 with latest patches from "windows update"
Drives: 2 ATA33 hard drives and 1 floppy connected to the board, 1 Plextor CD-ROM connected to the Fireport
Misc: PS/2 style mouse and keyboard, HSF on CPU, case left open

What can cause the problem?

Thank you!

As a general rule on these things, strip it down to the essentials.
Pull the soundcard. Stick in an old PCI video card. Ditch the Plexor.
Use one hard drive. Uninstall all now unneeded drivers. See how it
works for a while. Put stuff back one by one. Swap in a different
memory dimm if you have one.

I always blame the video card until something else proves to be the
problem. I've just had too many experiences where swapping out the
video card cured a problem.

 

[Bob Eager]

Power supply?

 

[Jody]

will totally freeze. The only thing that will continue working is
mouse pointer positioning. If I immediately reset it, the
situation will repeat after a similar time frame. Usually happens
when using the browser. Did not happen when left under DOS
running the screen saver of Norton Commander (don't ask!) for
several hours.

I always blame the video card until something else proves to be the
problem. I've just had too many experiences where swapping out the
video card cured a problem.

I always blame
a) The ram
b) Kazaa esp. on win98 if you are i-net related problems.
c) All PCI cards(various reasons, remove 'em all)
d) Video Card
e) Motherboard

Check to see if there is any interesting Event Viewer comments
btw. Can be helpful.
...
jo

 

[Alex]

Power supply?

Used to power an Intel AG430HX board with a P-MMX/200, same drives and more cards with no glitches.
Anyway, if it was a PSU problem, wouldn't it occur when booting DOS as well?

 

[Todd Clayton]

Used to power an Intel AG430HX board with a P-MMX/200, same drives and more cards with no glitches.
Anyway, if it was a PSU problem, wouldn't it occur when booting DOS as well?

Sometimes when a power supply is "marginal" it will supply the enough
for everything to work, but not in a stable manner. Erratic voltage and
frequency, etc.

But like the others have said, strip everything down to bare bones, and
slowly add things back in.

--
+---------------------------------+--------------------------------+
| Todd Clayton aka DJ Todd | Real Synthetic Audio |
| http://www.industrial-radio.com | Electro-Industrial-Synthpop |
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| ICQ: 56785153 | Unconventional. |
+---------------------------------+--------------------------------+
"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor
will he ever receive either. " - Benjamin Franklin

 

[Egil Solberg]

Hello,

I recently built a machine from spare parts but it is very unstable.

Usually within half an hour to an hour from booting Win2K it will totally
freeze. The only thing that will continue working is mouse pointer
positioning. If I immediately reset it, the situation will repeat after a
similar time frame. Usually happens when using the browser. Did not happen
when left under DOS running the screen saver of Norton Commander (don't
ask!) for several hours.

Motherboard: ASUS P5A rev 1.06, flashed latest BIOS (1011.005)
CPU: K6-2/400
Memory: One Infineon(?) 256MB PC133 DIMM (at 3-2-2)
PCI Cards: Diamond Fireport 40 (worked in another box for years without
problems)
AGP: ATI AIW 8500 (never tested before), running "Catalist 3.8" drivers
OS: Win2K SP4 with latest patches from "windows update"
Drives: 2 ATA33 hard drives and 1 floppy connected to the board, 1 Plextor
CD-ROM connected to the Fireport
Misc: PS/2 style mouse and keyboard, HSF on CPU, case left open

What can cause the problem?

I suspect the AIW 8500 could be drawing too much power. Does this board have
a separate powerconnector?
If the setup works fine with an old PCI video card, yes, well, that will
support my theory.
Did you install this driver: ftp://www.ali.com.tw/driver/agp_utility140.zip
or are they maybe included with Win2K?

 

[Bob Eager]

Used to power an Intel AG430HX board with a P-MMX/200, same drives and more cards with no glitches.
Anyway, if it was a PSU problem, wouldn't it occur when booting DOS as well?

Not necessarily. DOS won't be driving the graphics card hard, or indeed
the CPU. First thing I'd do is try a different PSU. Many freezes are
caused by a bad PSU.

 

[Jeff Labute]

Could be heat related since it doesn't crash right away, or maybe the video
card. The power supply and the chip dissipate lots of heat and need proper
ventilation. Also, it's an old motherboard... the properties of the
capacitors change over time...they dry out etc... may be unstable just due
to age..who knows.

Jeff

--
Hello,

I recently built a machine from spare parts but it is very unstable.

Usually within half an hour to an hour from booting Win2K it will totally
freeze. The only thing that will continue working is mouse pointer
positioning. If I immediately reset it, the situation will repeat after a
similar time frame. Usually happens when using the browser. Did not happen
when left under DOS running the screen saver of Norton Commander (don't
ask!) for several hours.

Motherboard: ASUS P5A rev 1.06, flashed latest BIOS (1011.005)
CPU: K6-2/400
Memory: One Infineon(?) 256MB PC133 DIMM (at 3-2-2)
PCI Cards: Diamond Fireport 40 (worked in another box for years without
problems)
AGP: ATI AIW 8500 (never tested before), running "Catalist 3.8" drivers
OS: Win2K SP4 with latest patches from "windows update"
Drives: 2 ATA33 hard drives and 1 floppy connected to the board, 1 Plextor
CD-ROM connected to the Fireport
Misc: PS/2 style mouse and keyboard, HSF on CPU, case left open

What can cause the problem?

Thank you!

 

[CJT]

Hello,

I recently built a machine from spare parts but it is very unstable.

Usually within half an hour to an hour from booting Win2K it will totally freeze. The only thing that will continue working is mouse pointer positioning. If I immediately reset it, the situation will repeat after a similar time frame. Usually happens when using the browser. Did not happen when left under DOS running the screen saver of Norton Commander (don't ask!) for several hours.

Motherboard: ASUS P5A rev 1.06, flashed latest BIOS (1011.005)
CPU: K6-2/400
Memory: One Infineon(?) 256MB PC133 DIMM (at 3-2-2)
PCI Cards: Diamond Fireport 40 (worked in another box for years without problems)
AGP: ATI AIW 8500 (never tested before), running "Catalist 3.8" drivers
OS: Win2K SP4 with latest patches from "windows update"
Drives: 2 ATA33 hard drives and 1 floppy connected to the board, 1 Plextor CD-ROM connected to the Fireport
Misc: PS/2 style mouse and keyboard, HSF on CPU, case left open

What can cause the problem?

Thank you!

FWIW, my daughter had similar symptoms recently on her new computer.
It turns out she had contracted the Blaster virus almost immediately
upon connecting it to the Internet, before even having an opportunity
to download the needed patch. Blaster consumed resources until the
machine slowed to a crawl; rebooting cleared it so the cycle could start
again.

Thanks, Microsoft.

 

[Paul]

totally freeze. The only thing that will continue working is mouse
pointer positioning. If I immediately reset it, the situation will repeat
after a similar time frame. Usually happens when using the browser. Did
not happen when left under DOS running the screen saver of Norton
Commander (don't ask!) for several hours.

As a general rule on these things, strip it down to the essentials.
Pull the soundcard. Stick in an old PCI video card. Ditch the Plexor.
Use one hard drive. Uninstall all now unneeded drivers. See how it
works for a while. Put stuff back one by one. Swap in a different
memory dimm if you have one.

I always blame the video card until something else proves to be the
problem. I've just had too many experiences where swapping out the
video card cured a problem.

Since the mouse was still moving, I'd suggest the video card as well.
But as others have suggested, strip the system and build it up
piece by piece. Test the memory with memtest86 from memtest86.com.

Video cards which have video input capabilities sometimes are
sensitive to the voltage on the 3.3V rail. They seem to be less
tolerant than a simple video card, when the 3.3V is below the rated
value. So, in a situation like that, swapping the PS might help, just
to find a PS with a higher output voltage on the 3.3V rail (if the
supplies were designed to be adjusted, that wouldn't be necessary).

In this case, you are using an older motherboard, where the AGP
transfer rate is limited by the Northbridge. It might help to reduce
the AGP transfer rate, by using the Catalyst "SmartGART" tab, as the
Northbridge might not be able to handle the transfer rate. In my
experience, SmartGART ignores BIOS AGP settings, so you have to use
the SmartGART tab to change the transfer rate.

Also note, that some AGP interfaces are never stable. These are the
motherboards that should be RMAed soon after you receive them. I
suffered with a board like that.

HTH,
Paul

 

[Shawk]

Hello,

I recently built a machine from spare parts but it is very unstable.

Usually within half an hour to an hour from booting Win2K it will totally
freeze. The only thing that will continue working is mouse pointer
positioning. If I immediately reset it, the situation will repeat after a
similar time frame. Usually happens when using the browser. Did not happen
when left under DOS running the screen saver of Norton Commander (don't
ask!) for several hours.

Motherboard: ASUS P5A rev 1.06, flashed latest BIOS (1011.005)
CPU: K6-2/400
Memory: One Infineon(?) 256MB PC133 DIMM (at 3-2-2)
PCI Cards: Diamond Fireport 40 (worked in another box for years without
problems)
AGP: ATI AIW 8500 (never tested before), running "Catalist 3.8" drivers
OS: Win2K SP4 with latest patches from "windows update"
Drives: 2 ATA33 hard drives and 1 floppy connected to the board, 1 Plextor
CD-ROM connected to the Fireport
Misc: PS/2 style mouse and keyboard, HSF on CPU, case left open

What can cause the problem?

I suspect the AIW 8500 could be drawing too much power. Does this board have
a separate powerconnector?
If the setup works fine with an old PCI video card, yes, well, that will
support my theory.
Did you install this driver: ftp://www.ali.com.tw/driver/agp_utility140.zip
or are they maybe included with Win2K?

There have been probs with the AIW Radeon cards and 3.8 and 3.9 drivers.
The probs cause freezes etc and going to the 3.7s has cured it for most
folk. This was mainly when playing games but something to consider. (I
cured mine by updating the VIA 4in1's and reloading DX9.0b - now stable with
3.9s). HTH. Shawk

 

[DaveW]

Sounds like an overheating problem to me. I would also try using an older
Catalyst driver. The 3.8 is optomized for the 9600 and 9800; not the older
8500.

--
DaveW



Hello,

I recently built a machine from spare parts but it is very unstable.

Usually within half an hour to an hour from booting Win2K it will totally
freeze. The only thing that will continue working is mouse pointer
positioning. If I immediately reset it, the situation will repeat after a
similar time frame. Usually happens when using the browser. Did not happen
when left under DOS running the screen saver of Norton Commander (don't
ask!) for several hours.

Motherboard: ASUS P5A rev 1.06, flashed latest BIOS (1011.005)
CPU: K6-2/400
Memory: One Infineon(?) 256MB PC133 DIMM (at 3-2-2)
PCI Cards: Diamond Fireport 40 (worked in another box for years without
problems)
AGP: ATI AIW 8500 (never tested before), running "Catalist 3.8" drivers
OS: Win2K SP4 with latest patches from "windows update"
Drives: 2 ATA33 hard drives and 1 floppy connected to the board, 1 Plextor
CD-ROM connected to the Fireport
Misc: PS/2 style mouse and keyboard, HSF on CPU, case left open

What can cause the problem?

Thank you!

 

[w_tom]

Too many responses are based on speculation without even
understanding what changes between DOS and Win2K. Lets start
with the processor. DOS uses a 16 bit part of the processor.
Win2K uses 32 bit hardware. Therefore system working fine in
DOS really provides nothing useful. However, smart use of DOS
might isolate a hardware problem. DOS failing on that system
could provide some incite. DOS working on that system tells
us little.

Power supply. First thing verified when intermittent failure
occurs. But every solution starts by collecting solid facts -
using science principles instead of wild speculation. Is
power supply good or bad? Most accurate tool (even more
accurate than component swapping) is the 3.5 digit multimeter
- as essential as a screwdriver. Chart to validate those
readings is at:
http://www.hardwaresite.net/faqpowersupply.html

More important data is found in system (event) logs. What
do they say?

Other possible problems: cache memory problem, memory
problem, conductive standoff affecting a pc trace that is only
used in 32 bit operation, problematic electrolytic capacitor,
peripheral chips that only has problems when accessed by 32
bit mode drivers, problems with drivers used in 32 bit mode
OS, etc. For example, some peripheral hardware or its drivers
that can crash a 32 bit OS are video and sound card.

Best one can do is start by confirming individual components
using important tools such as the 3.5 digit multimeter,
manufacturer's diagnostics (all responsible computer
manufacturer's provide diagnostics), and selective use of
heat. Yes heat, because any system that fails even in a 100
degree F room is defective hardware - not a cooling problem as
so many other will claim. Heat is another effective tool to
locate 'intermittent and therefore defective' hardware.

Don't wildly speculate. Many fix the problem in a logical
manner using tools widely available just for the purpose.
Collect facts. Don't speculate.

 

[jeffc]

You didn't list your power supply - that might cause problems. But if your
machine runs for awhile, maybe not. Heat buildup would be another - faulty
video card heatsink connection, or fan not working. Faulty CPU heatsink
connection, or fan not working (I once tried to stick a temperature probe
*between* the CPU core and heatsink! years ago) Start Windows in Safe Mode
and see how that goes for awhile.

 

[jeffc]

Too many responses are based on speculation ...

More important data is found in system (event) logs.

Good idea on that one.

Other possible problems: cache memory problem, memory
problem, conductive standoff affecting a pc trace that is only
used in 32 bit operation, problematic electrolytic capacitor,
peripheral chips that only has problems when accessed by 32
bit mode drivers, problems with drivers used in 32 bit mode
OS, etc.

I don't see you offering advice much different in terms of "speculation"
than everyone else here....

 

[Alex]

Did you install this driver: ftp://www.ali.com.tw/driver/agp_utility140.zip
or are they maybe included with Win2K?

I tried installing the combined ALi drivers (ftp://www.ali.com.tw/driver/int205.zip)
The machine would bluescreen on start-up.
Had to boot in safe mode and remove them.

 

[Alex]

Sounds like an overheating problem to me.

The case is open and a reset repeats the cycle (instead of causing problem faster)

I would also try using an older Catalyst driver.
The 3.8 is optomized for the 9600 and 9800; not the older 8500.

Which version would you recommend?

 

[Harry Edwards]

Not necessarily. DOS won't be driving the graphics card hard, or indeed
the CPU. First thing I'd do is try a different PSU. Many freezes are
caused by a bad PSU.

I agree. I had an ASUS Pft-e and it was very power hungry. Despite
the 350 watt requirement, I used an off brand of ower supply. No
POST. I got a 450 enermax and everything was fine. If you're in
Win98, what happens after a feformat? It could be a nutty program,
something loaded into memory at boot. I'd look at the software before
looking at hardware.

 

[Alex]

Hello.

I recently built a machine from spare parts but it is very unstable.

Usually within half an hour to an hour from booting Win2K it will totally freeze.
The only thing that will continue working is mouse pointer positioning.
If I immediately reset it, the situation will repeat after a similar time frame.
Usually happens when using the browser. Did not happen when left under DOS
running the screen saver of Norton Commander (don't ask!) for several hours.

Motherboard: ASUS P5A rev 1.06, flashed latest BIOS (1011.005)
CPU: K6-2/400
Memory: One Infineon(?) 256MB PC133 DIMM (at 3-2-2)
PCI Cards: Diamond Fireport 40 (worked in another box for years without problems)
AGP: ATI AIW 8500 (never tested before), running "Catalist 3.8" drivers
OS: Win2K SP4 with latest patches from "windows update"
Drives: 2 ATA33 hard drives and 1 floppy connected to the board,
1 Plextor CD-ROM connected to the Fireport
Misc: PS/2 style mouse and keyboard, HSF on CPU, case left open

What can cause the problem?

Thank you for your suggestions.

Here is what I did:

Run memtest86 for 24 hours - no errors (memory probably good).
Booted Win2K again - crashes...
Installed the Ali AGP driver - no change (I let is stay).
Upgraded to Catalyst 3.9 plus the recent ATI patch for the AIW - no change.

However, I did not notice any crashing when I removed the Catalyst driver completely (of course I was stuck at 800x600 16 colors but that's beside the point) which leads me to believe that it *is* a driver problem.

The Motherboard's voltage monitoring in the BIOS showed me that the 3.3V rail is at +3.4v and the +12v is at +11.6v (sometimies dipping to +11.5v). Not ideal but, I believe, within spec. Combined with the fact that the crashes stopped when I removed the driver that leads me to believe that the PSU is not the source of the problem. Please correct me if I am wrong.

So, assuming that it is a driver problem, which driver should I use for an AIW 8500? Which versions are known as stable?

Thank you,
Alex.