Computer crash-need recovery

[bit boy]

My #1 XP computer crashed on boot-up, now does not boot-up into any mode,
not "safe", nothing. It will let me access the "recovery partition" to
re-format the drive and re-install initial windows set-up, but this would
erase all my data and programs so this would be my last resort. I have a
second XP computer and plan to remove the system harddrive from the crashed
computer, reconfigure it to a "slave" and install it in the second XP
computer.Here's the questions: configured as a "slave" would I have any
boot-up issues as both HD's would have operating systems? If that wouldn't
be a problem, then what would be the best software way to recover my damaged
HD? I have Norton SystemWorks installed on the second XP computer but
possibly something in the XP operating system would work better? Does the
Recovery console stuff work on a non-system second disk? And how to access
it? As I said, it just crashed on boot-up, no warning. I don't believe that
the HD in question has mechanically died, as it does display initial
start-up information and will allow access to the recovery partition. Thanks
for the help, I just don't want to make anything worse.

 

[Mike Walsh]

Adding a slave drive will not normally affect booting from the master. If the drive is defective it might cause the PC to freeze when the BIOS tries to detect it. If the slave drive is working and is recognized by windows you will have free access (assuming you are logged on as administrator) to copy any files from the slave.
There is nothing you can do with the recovery console that you can't do easier with a fully functional OS. Since you did not give any details of what happens when you try to load windows it is hard to diagnose the problem. You might be able to fix the problem by replace the boot files. You could try editing the Boot.ini file on the master to boot from the master and load windows from the slave.

 

[Rod Speed]

My #1 XP computer crashed on boot-up, now does not boot-up
into any mode, not "safe", nothing. It will let me access the
"recovery partition" to re-format the drive and re-install initial
windows set-up, but this would erase all my data and programs
so this would be my last resort. I have a second XP computer
and plan to remove the system harddrive from the crashed computer,
reconfigure it to a "slave" and install it in the second XP computer.
Here's the questions: configured as a "slave" would I have any
boot-up issues as both HD's would have operating systems?

Nope, just be careful to not boot that drive and you'll be fine.

If that wouldn't be a problem, then what would be
the best software way to recover my damaged HD?

You may well find that you can read your data fine with
it as a slave in the second PC. If you cant, the drive may
well be pretty sick. See what Everest has to say about
that drive, post the Everest SMART report here.
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181

If you do need to recover the data from the drive once the directory
structures have got stomped on, I like Easy Recovery Pro myself.

I have Norton SystemWorks installed on the second XP computer

That can **** drives pretty comprehensively in some situations.

but possibly something in the XP operating system would work better?

Unlikely unless the drive just has a problem
booting and the data structures are fine.

Does the Recovery console stuff work on a non-system second disk?

Nope, and it just fixes boot problems with a drive, its not data recovery.

And how to access it?

You cant use it for anything useful in the second PC.

Once you have the data saved, it may be possible to get the drive
booting again by putting it back in the original PC, booting the XP
install CD and using the recovery console from there. It shows up
very early in the options you get once you boot the XP CD.

As I said, it just crashed on boot-up, no warning. I don't believe that
the HD in question has mechanically died, as it does display initial
start-up information and will allow access to the recovery partition.

It clearly isnt completely dead, but may still have a serious problem.

Something has died or whats on the drive has got seriously
corrupted if you cant even start in safe mode anymore.

Thanks for the help, I just don't want to make anything worse.

Yeah, best to save the most important data first if you
have been silly enough to not have adequate backups.

 

[Paul]

My #1 XP computer crashed on boot-up, now does not boot-up into any mode,
not "safe", nothing. It will let me access the "recovery partition" to
re-format the drive and re-install initial windows set-up, but this would
erase all my data and programs so this would be my last resort. I have a
second XP computer and plan to remove the system harddrive from the crashed
computer, reconfigure it to a "slave" and install it in the second XP
computer.Here's the questions: configured as a "slave" would I have any
boot-up issues as both HD's would have operating systems? If that wouldn't
be a problem, then what would be the best software way to recover my damaged
HD? I have Norton SystemWorks installed on the second XP computer but
possibly something in the XP operating system would work better? Does the
Recovery console stuff work on a non-system second disk? And how to access
it? As I said, it just crashed on boot-up, no warning. I don't believe that
the HD in question has mechanically died, as it does display initial
start-up information and will allow access to the recovery partition. Thanks
for the help, I just don't want to make anything worse.

When you install the disk in your second computer, check the boot order
in the BIOS. Some home built computer motherboards, must have the boot
order adjusted, any time the storage configuration (# of drives) is
changed. Check the BIOS, as a means of ensuring you are booting from
the proper drive, and not the new slave you are adding. I use the
boot order control on my motherboard, to select amoug several Oses
to boot with (one OS per drive).

Paul

 

[DaveW]

Your plan will NOT work (installing a different XP drive into the
non-booting computer. Unless the two computers have IDENTICAL motherboards
you can not boot off of the 2nd XP drive.) You have no choice but to
reformat and do a fresh install of the OS and other applications on the
non-booting harddrive. That's why people keep Backups of their data. And
the Recovery Console does NOT work on non-system drives.

 

[Rod Speed]

Your plan will NOT work (installing a different XP drive into the non-booting computer.

Wrong when you just want to get the DATA
off the drive from the failed XP system.

Unless the two computers have IDENTICAL motherboards you can not boot off of the 2nd XP drive.)

Wrong again.

You have no choice but to reformat and do a fresh install of the OS and other applications on the
non-booting harddrive.

Wrong in spades.

That's why people keep Backups of their data. And the Recovery Console does NOT work on
non-system drives.

You did manage to get that last bit right, likely by accident.

 

[bit boy]

Thanks for the reply. What happens when I try to boot up the computer is
that it only gets as far in the boot process as the text screen that offers
a menu of choices to boot up, ie "normal","safe mode", etcetera. Try any of
those choices and it always goes back to this screen. The only exception is
to try "recovery", the process to reformat the drive and re-install Windows
from a "recovery partition" on the C drive. Goodbye all programs, drivers
for add on cards, everything. Last resort, don't wanna do that. I think
something bad happened to the Master Boot Record on the C drive. That's way
I'm looking for a software fix. Thanks again.

Adding a slave drive will not normally affect booting from the master. If

the drive is defective it might cause the PC to freeze when the BIOS tries
to detect it. If the slave drive is working and is recognized by windows you
will have free access (assuming you are logged on as administrator) to copy
any files from the slave.

There is nothing you can do with the recovery console that you can't do

easier with a fully functional OS. Since you did not give any details of
what happens when you try to load windows it is hard to diagnose the
problem. You might be able to fix the problem by replace the boot files. You
could try editing the Boot.ini file on the master to boot from the master
and load windows from the slave.

 

[bit boy]

Yes, that essentially would be my plan, to use the second XP computer, with
no problems, to attempt to "fix" whatever is wrong with the system HD from
the bad computer. I just don't want to do anything that would end up really
screwing me up. Do ya think that if I used "Disk Doctor" from
NortonSystemWorks on the bad drive that it would help or just make it worse?
My suspicion is a damaged Master Boot Record on the bad drive. Thanks.

 

[kony]

Yes, that essentially would be my plan, to use the second XP computer, with
no problems, to attempt to "fix" whatever is wrong with the system HD from
the bad computer. I just don't want to do anything that would end up really
screwing me up. Do ya think that if I used "Disk Doctor" from
NortonSystemWorks on the bad drive that it would help or just make it worse?
My suspicion is a damaged Master Boot Record on the bad drive. Thanks.

Ugh. Uninstall Norton Bloatware

Use chkdsk...
Open a command prompt and run
chkdsk drive /F

Substitute the drive letter for "drive" above, for example
D:

If you have a bad drive, yes it could make matters worse.
The FIRST thing you should do after connecting the
questionable drive to another system is to copy off any
important data if possible. Especially if this drive is
dying, every chance counts.

As for recovering it, it really depends on what is wrong.
If the drive is dying, there's no real recovery, you just
get as much data as you can while you can. If a virus, etc,
be sure not to boot that drive again, before having
extensively scanned it while connected to another system as
an aux drive, then when first reinstalled on the original
system, boot without any networking so it can't spread or
download new code and be sure to boot safe mode, and run
"HijackThis" to see what's being loaded, as well as scanning
again for viri, spyware, etc.

To run the recovery console in an attempt to fix it, you'd
have first copied off important data, scanned the disk with
chkdsk and viri/spyware scanners on the other system, and
then put it back in the original system. At that point if
it can't be recovered you could try restoring a backup (if
you have one), reinstalling overtop of itself, or wiping the
drive and a clean install - though before any of this is
might be prudent to run the HDD manufacturer's diagnostics
to see if there's any problems indicated.

 

[kony]

Your plan will NOT work (installing a different XP drive into the
non-booting computer.
False


Unless the two computers have IDENTICAL motherboards
you can not boot off of the 2nd XP drive.)

False, it can be done but you may find drivers missing or a
bluescreen. Since we don't know why it won't work on the
original board, these are secondary concerns, there is no
need to try and boot it from another board, yet.

You have no choice but to
reformat and do a fresh install of the OS and other applications on the
non-booting harddrive.

Wrong. That's always a last resort. If the drive is
viable, there are other alternatives.

I have to wonder why after all this time with us continually
telling you that it can be done, that you still essentially
TROLL and LIE about it. Having been informed that it can be
done, it is unjustifiable to claim it can't.

 

[bit boy]

Thanks for the feed back. You think Microsoft's chkdsk would be better than
Norton? Ok, what about this-if I can get this repair setup(bad Hd in good XP
computer) to even recognize the damaged HD, would it be safer to use chkdsk
or even scandisk in DOS mode? Sorry to be so pissy about this, but I figure
I got one shot here to do right and I want to make it the right one. Thanks
again.

 

[kony]

Thanks for the feed back. You think Microsoft's chkdsk would be better than
Norton? Ok, what about this-if I can get this repair setup(bad Hd in good XP
computer) to even recognize the damaged HD, would it be safer to use chkdsk
or even scandisk in DOS mode? Sorry to be so pissy about this, but I figure
I got one shot here to do right and I want to make it the right one. Thanks
again.

FIRST, boot windows and copy off any data you possibly can,
if you suspect the drive is dying. I mean boot that other
system's regular installation, never trying to boot this
questionable drive on the other system. Try to avoid
turning the system off, letting this questionable drive spin
down due to that or due to the other system's power
management having a HDD sleep setting that causes it (check
this if for some reason you were to leave the system
unattended.

It could even be too late at this point, with some drive
failures if you see it acting flaky, it's completely gone if
you let the drive power off then try it the next day. We
couldn't possibly predict this, but to counter it, it's
always best to go forward getting off any data immediately
when any problem surfaces... that is, unless you have a
recent backup, then you're just looking for another drive to
replace it.

Next run chkdsk from windows, there's no gain from DOS as it
isn't the OS (installation) that's running on the system you
are using, for windows purposes it's just another drive with
data on it. At this point, there's no hurry... if the drive
is failing you can't use it anymore anyway, and had tried to
get the data off.

 

[bit boy]

Thanks again for the feedback. I could be wrong, but I believe that the
"bad" disk in question is 100% good mechanically and that my problem is
software related, even if the problem is something very basic, ie the MBR on
the bad drive. I have not attempted any repair as of yet, I have other
computers and mostly am afraid of doing something really stupid. Going away
for the weekend, will attempt "fix" on monday. Thanks again.

 

[Mike Walsh]

There is still a MBR or you would not get the screen for normal and safe mode. It is possible the MBR is damaged, or you could have lost your boot files. If you boot with a WinXP installation CD you can start the recovery console and run FIXBOOT or FIXMBR. I am not sure exactly what they do because I don't remember using them, and if they are like the utilities from earlier OSs from Microsoft they might not fix your problem. The only way I know for sure to write a new MBR and install boot files is to do another windows installation (in a different directory) and then edit Boot.ini to make your original installation the default.

 

[Rod Speed]

Yes, that essentially would be my plan, to use the second
XP computer, with no problems, to attempt to "fix" whatever
is wrong with the system HD from the bad computer.

I thought you wanted to recover the data from the drive out
of the system that wont boot anymore, and put that data on
the good XP system. It isnt practical to make the XP system
that wont boot, bootable, in the good XP system.

I just don't want to do anything that would end up really screwing me up.

Yeah, that is important if you dont have the data on
the system that wont boot adequately backed up.

I'd personally do that first, back it up properly, before trying to fix the booting.

I'd personally boot a True Image 'rescue' CD on the system that wont
boot XP, and write an image of the system that wont boot to the XP
system that will boot, but you do need quite a bit of space on the XP
system that will boot and a network connection between them.

Its a bit more dangerous to physically move the drive from the system
that wont boot to the system that boots fine, and then backup the data
thats on the drive from the system that wont boot, to the one that will.
Its possible to damage the drive physically moving it. That risk is so
small its not worth worrying about when you have adequate backups
but isnt a great idea without backups of at least the stuff you'll slash
your wrists if you lose.

True Image will do both full image backups or more selective
backups of just the stuff you'll slash your wrists if you lose if
you havent got enough space on the XP system that will boot
for a full image of the system that wont boot anymore.

Do ya think that if I used "Disk Doctor" from NortonSystemWorks
on the bad drive that it would help or just make it worse?

Its got a reputation for making some problems much worse.
Corse it also fixes some problems too. I dont use it anymore
myself, because of the situations where it makes things much worse.

My suspicion is a damaged Master Boot Record on the bad drive.

Thats unlikely since you can see the list of options
that includes safe mode and normal mode etc.

The problem appears to be with what forms part of the boot
after that because once you select the type of boot you want,
you dont in fact get a boot at all, just that list of options again.

The XP boot is quite complex and it looks like somethings happened
to at least one of the components that is part of the boot phase after
the MBR has been used successfully to put that list of options up.

The repair console FIXBOOT might fix the problem, but I wouldnt
personally do anything to the drive until you have at least backed
up the stuff you'll slash your wrists if you lose.

And I'd inspect the Everest SMART report to see if the drive has
a problem before attempting to use FIXBOOT too. There has to
be a reason why the boot no longer works, and that can be either
a hard drive failing and which now has damaged boot components,
or they may have got damaged by something as mundane as a
power surge and are readily fixable by either the use of FIXBOOT
or a repair install of XP. But its important not to try either if the hard
drive is dying.