Compatible Carts

[Stephen Grossman]

Where are all the very low price compatible cartridges??

For several years I bought $6 black and $12 color compatible
carts for an Epson Stylus 740 and now a Lexmark Z32 from Ramiento
(no carts now) and Ink-Refills (none for Lexmarks now). Ive looked
at some alleged very low-price sites but the black carts are about $20.

Please email, post. (In Newswatcher, emailing takes a second
to activate an email icon that sends along with the news post)

--
==================================================
A man of judgement, who could look both before and after.
HOMER, THE ILIAD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Radically systematic, radical metaphysics: "Existence 2"
http://home.att.net/~sdgross

 

[Jeff]

(e-mail address removed) (Stephen Grossman) wrote in 220.cambridge-17rh15-16rt.ma.dial-access.att.net:

Where are all the very low price compatible cartridges??

For several years I bought $6 black and $12 color compatible
carts for an Epson Stylus 740 and now a Lexmark Z32 from Ramiento
(no carts now) and Ink-Refills (none for Lexmarks now). Ive looked
at some alleged very low-price sites but the black carts are about $20.

There are no legal compatible cartridges for Lexmark and HP as both
incorporate patented printheads within the cartridge and cannot legally be
reproduced. Though you can get recycled original cartridges called
"remanufactured". I think they're about half the price of originals. Which
is cheap-er but not cheap. Jeff

 

[John Beardmore]

(e-mail address removed) (Stephen Grossman) wrote in 220.cambridge-17rh15-16rt.ma.dial-access.att.net:

There are no legal compatible cartridges for Lexmark and HP as both
incorporate patented printheads within the cartridge and cannot legally be
reproduced.

The HP CP1700 is among the printers that this sweeping generalisation
does not apply to !


Cheers, J/.

 

[Tony]

(e-mail address removed) (Stephen Grossman) wrote in 220.cambridge-17rh15-16rt.ma.dial-access.att.net:




There are no legal compatible cartridges for Lexmark and HP as both
incorporate patented printheads within the cartridge and cannot legally be
reproduced. Though you can get recycled original cartridges called
"remanufactured". I think they're about half the price of originals. Which
is cheap-er but not cheap. Jeff

There are some older HP cartrdiges that are no longer under patent protection.
The #29 and #49 and several others are in this category. There are therefore
100% legal compatible cartridges available for some HP printers.
I have also seen #56 and #57 cartridges advertised as "compatible with HP
xxxx", I suspect these have been remanufactured rather than illegalyy copied
but have never checked; I'll bet that HP has checked however and so they should.
Tony

 

[measekite]

PRETTY SMART OF THEM

The HP CP1700 is among the printers that this sweeping generalisation
does not apply to !


Cheers, J/.

 

[Stephen Grossman]

(e-mail address removed) (Stephen Grossman) wrote in 220.cambridge-17rh15-16rt.ma.dial-access.att.net:

There are no legal compatible cartridges for Lexmark and HP as both
incorporate patented printheads within the cartridge and cannot legally be
reproduced. Though you can get recycled original cartridges called
"remanufactured". I think they're about half the price of originals. Which
is cheap-er but not cheap. Jeff

Bummer! I had thought of buying a $30 clearance HP printer at a Radio
Shack. Double bummer!
Ive studied printers and ink supplies lately and there are a very large
number of variables
that must be kept in some kind of balance. The arguments in discussion
groups like this one
are confusing in, again, the number of variables that must be balanced.
Can you provide some quick
and dirty advice? Or is each purchase a compromise approx. equal to any
other purchase? Is the
cost of ink the main issue? If so, should I go for refills?

I still have some really nice prints of Bettie Page from the Epson over my
desk. That should count
for something...By the way, when I had my Epson, i was told that
out-of-cart printheads were
less good, for some reason, than in-cart printheads. Cleaning the
printhead was difficult.

--
==================================================
A man of judgement, who could look both before and after.
HOMER, THE ILIAD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Radically systematic, radical metaphysics: "Existence 2"
http://home.att.net/~sdgross

 

[Burt]

(snip)

Bummer! I had thought of buying a $30 clearance HP printer at a Radio
Shack. Double bummer!
Ive studied printers and ink supplies lately and there are a very large
number of variables
that must be kept in some kind of balance. The arguments in discussion
groups like this one
are confusing in, again, the number of variables that must be balanced.
Can you provide some quick
and dirty advice? Or is each purchase a compromise approx. equal to any
other purchase? Is the
cost of ink the main issue? If so, should I go for refills?

I still have some really nice prints of Bettie Page from the Epson over my
desk. That should count
for something...By the way, when I had my Epson, i was told that
out-of-cart printheads were
less good, for some reason, than in-cart printheads. Cleaning the
printhead was difficult.

(snip)

Steven - You are mistaking one troll's rants for an argument about
aftermarket carts and inks. Many participants of this NG are using these
aftermarket products. I am only aware of Canon non-OEM inks. I did have an
Epson I enjoyed using for over two years. The different print head
configurations are an issue when chosing a printer. The Epson print heads
are not removable by your average home tinkerer and they tend to clog more
often. They can usually be cleaned with the software that comes with the
printer, and the more stubborn clogs can usually be cleaned using Arthur
Entlich's very informative manual that he sends attached to an email when
requested. Canon print heads are removable and can be taken out for
cleaning, but they tend to not last as long as Epson print heads. You are
already aware of the HP carts that have the print head built in. The good
news is that if your printer sits idle for a long time and the head clogs
you simply purchase a new cart and with it you get a new printhead. The bad
news is that this is a pricy attribute. From the standpoint of cost and
uniformity of product, the Canon printers, up until the newest ones, had
carts that were easy to refill. Since prefilled cart manufacturers can
sometimes change ink suppliers, you are assured of more uniformity of
product when you buy bulk ink from one of the suppliers that people on this
NG and on the Nifty-Stuff Forum have reported as selling good products. The
newest Canon printers have a computer chip in each cartridge and the
aftermarket ink vendors haven't yet produced aftermarket carts or a
work-around for this problem. I'm sure they will come up with a solution
soon so that the newest carts can be refilled and that prefilled aftermarket
carts will be available. Don't pay any attention to our resident all-caps
typing troll. He delights in spreading his own biased inexperienced
misinformation about aftermarket ink.

 

[zakezuke]

Bummer! I had thought of buying a $30 clearance HP printer at a Radio

Shack. Double bummer!

Those sub $50 printers typicaly cost an arm and a leg over $100
printers for ink. Ink is where the money is at... totally 100%. You
esp notice this on Brothers were a replacement head can be double the
cost of the printer. In the case of canon's heads are often 50% to 75%
the value of the printer.

If you want refillable or pre-fills/refills go Canon. If not Canon go
Epson. While not all canons these days offer a dedicated removable
head, some are a cartridge with head onboard design, their sub $150
printers use very simple inktanks that are easy to refill.
New canon's have chips onboard which haven't been duplicated on
aftermarket tanks. So if you want cheaper ink... you have to refill
your self presently unless you use an older printer like the
ip4000/ip5000/ip3000... i860 whatnot.

Epson on the otherhand have had their chips duplicated so refills and
prefills are common place... though i've found the sub $150 epsons to
be a tad fickle and prone to clog.

 

[measekite]

Bummer! I had thought of buying a $30 clearance HP printer at a Radio
Shack. Double bummer!
Ive studied printers and ink supplies lately and there are a very large
number of variables
that must be kept in some kind of balance. The arguments in discussion
groups like this one
are confusing in, again, the number of variables that must be balanced.
Can you provide some quick
and dirty advice? Or is each purchase a compromise approx. equal to any
other purchase? Is the
cost of ink the main issue? If so, should I go for refills?

HERE ARE THE PROBLEMS WITH AFTERMARKET INKS.

THE POTENTIAL FOR CLOGGING THE PRINTER IS GREATOR
THE POTENTIAL FOR FADING IS GREATER
THE COLORS ARE NOT WHAT THE PRINTER MFG INTENDED OR DESIGNED
THE VENDORS LABELS CAN BE THE SAME CRAPPY INK SOLD BY DIFFERENT PLACES
THE VENDORS WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT THEY ARE SELLING
PREFILLED CARTS WILL ONLY SAVE ABOUT 20 TO 50%
REFILLING IS A MESSY PAIN AND IS INCONVENTIENT
THERE ARE USUALLY NO COLOR PROFILES FOR THEM BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT
YOU ARE GETTING.
THERE MAY NOT BE CONSISTENCY FROM PURCHASE TO PURCHASE
IT IS NOT DESIGNED FOR THE PRINTER

 

[zakezuke]

Measkite said: snipped per request

1. There may be some bad inks out there... and those universal ones
are not the best choice. But there are those of use that have been
using the same stuff for long enough discredit measkite's claims.

2. For dye inks under $3.00/ounce, it may be possible and expected
that they might not be as light fast or gasfast as a product than OEM
at $23 to $50/oz. But don't take measkite's word for it, he has no
data to backup what he presents as facts, only uneducated opinions.

3. Colors may not be identical, this is a reasonable assumption.
However this difference may be too small to notice, or might be an
improvement over OEM. Best to see for your self, you might like it
better.

4. Ink from one vender may indeed be the same ink from another
vender... this is a reasonable statement. Companies like Image
Specalists or Senient's Formulabs are produced in such huge quanities
that it's very common to find them in other someone else's bottle. If
buying from a store in a retail box check out first few digits of the
bar code and it'll give you the manufacturer.

5. It has been proven to measkite that there indeed are vendors that
disclose what they are selling. He's even agreed one company discloses
they offer formulabs prefilled cartridges on their website. I must
agree that it's more common for sites to disclose who mfg the bulk ink.
But on this issue measkite makes a choice to lie.

6. Prefilled cartridges save between 20% to 66% typicaly speaking,
sometimes more. In other words OEM can easily cost three times as much
as thirdparty solutions. Given that a typical set of cartridges for a
printer is $60 to $80... this is huge savings. Bulk filling can save
you 80 to 90% easily.

7. Refilling is not for everyone... and by all means if you don't feel
comfortable refilling your self then don't. There are plenty of
options to choose from or you can always go OEM.

8. Color profiles are not typicaly needed by your average end user.
Anyone who needs a color profile understands color well enough to make
the approperate adjustments. Still OEM often offers an advantage in
this area, offering color profiles for different papers. But as
explained in #5 some sites are happy to disclose. Those who don't you
can always ask here as to what profiles work. I won't deny this is
more work, but it's your choice in the end if you want to spend three
to ten times as much for your supplies.

9. There "may not" be consistency from purchase to purchace.... but
oddly enough there may not be with OEM either... and in fact self
filling is far more likely to give you consistency for the longest
period of time than OEM ever could because you know for a fact that 2oz
or 4oz of ink is from the same batch, from the same vat, made the same
day. It's only with OEM your likely to buy two cartridges from the
store made in different plants, different countries, different days.

10. Don't buy universal ink... buy stuff designed for the printer.
That's what these aftermarket mfgs do... design ink to work in your
printer.

11. Don't listen to measkite... bulk ink, prefills or refills may not
be what you choose to use but don't make a choice based on his advice.
He's never used any and has no experence above and beyond his ip4000
and some nameless HP. He consistently lies and his only purpose in
this group is to badmouth users who disagree with him and continue to
use thirdpart ink.

Thank you for your attention and have an insperational day.

 

[Tony]

HERE ARE THE PROBLEMS WITH AFTERMARKET INKS.

THE POTENTIAL FOR CLOGGING THE PRINTER IS GREATeR (spelling corrected)

You have never provided evidence of this because there is none.

THE POTENTIAL FOR FADING IS GREATER

You have never provided evidence of this because there is none.

THE COLORS ARE NOT WHAT THE PRINTER MFG INTENDED OR DESIGNED

Wrong, because they are formulated for the printer.

THE VENDORS LABELS CAN BE THE SAME CRAPPY INK SOLD BY DIFFERENT PLACES

Only in a minority of cases, like most industries. Many after market brands are
extremely good quality.

THE VENDORS WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT THEY ARE SELLING

Several of them will, and do so on their websites.

PREFILLED CARTS WILL ONLY SAVE ABOUT 20 TO 50%

50% is pretty damn good! 20% is very nice. Bulk ink is enormously cheaper.

REFILLING IS A MESSY PAIN AND IS INCONVENIENT (spelling corrected)

Wrong, you would need to try it before you have any experience to base this
comment on?

THERE ARE USUALLY NO COLOR PROFILES FOR THEM BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT
YOU ARE GETTING.

Wrong, they are formulated for the printer and therefore OEM profiles will work
very well.

THERE MAY NOT BE CONSISTENCY FROM PURCHASE TO PURCHASE

That "may" be right sometimes but is wrong in most cases.

IT IS NOT DESIGNED FOR THE PRINTER

Wrong, because they are formulated for the printer.

 

[John Beardmore]

In message

i was told that
out-of-cart printheads were
less good, for some reason, than in-cart printheads.

I wouldn't pay too much attention unless they can justify that
assertion.

Cleaning the
printhead was difficult.

Doesn't seem to be hear.


Cheers, J/.

 

[Taliesyn]

By the way, when I had my Epson, i was told that out-of-cart printheads were
less good, for some reason, than in-cart printheads.

The ones on the cartridges are of the disposable type. In theory they
are built only to last the life of that cartridge, though most will last
considerably longer as can be seen by the number of people who success-
fully refill them. I refilled the same set of Lexmark cartridges for
almost two years.

Cleaning the printhead was difficult.

On the Canons (iP860, iP5000, iP4000 and others)...

Remove cartridges. Flip locking lever. Remove printhead holder (it just
lifts out). Sit printhead on clean, dry, folded paper towel (several
layers). Feed clean water (preferably demineralized) with an eyedropper
through the ink intake tubes until only clear water soaks the towel
beneath printhead. Dry off the water with soft tissue and you're done.
Think you can handle that?

Note: do not rinse the entire printhead under water! You can or will
damage circuitry within!

-Taliesyn

 

[Gary Tait]

While not all canons these days offer a dedicated removable
head, some are a cartridge with head onboard design,

Which models are those? AFAIK, they dumped the head-in-cart with the BJC
line, or earlier. The mobile and models maybe. Now the desktops now
pretty well use separate ink tanks, with BCI24 or BCI6/3e tanks, and
lately the chipped PIG/CLI ones.

their sub $150
printers use very simple inktanks that are easy to refill.
New canon's have chips onboard which haven't been duplicated on
aftermarket tanks. So if you want cheaper ink... you have to refill
your self presently unless you use an older printer like the
ip4000/ip5000/ip3000... i860 whatnot.

FWIW, you are able to refill the chipped carts (supposing you can get
compatible bulk ink), and use them at the expense of ink monitoring.

 

[zakezuke]

Which models are those? AFAIK, they dumped the head-in-cart with the BJC

line, or earlier. The mobile and models maybe. Now the desktops now
pretty well use separate ink tanks, with BCI24 or BCI6/3e tanks, and
lately the chipped PIG/CLI ones.

What you say is trueish... they did indeed drop those bc-02 to bc-30
tanks which were huge black with head on board cartridges. I'm not
sure if these cartridges will work in a bci-24 taking printer but canon
doesn't say that they do. I assume they don't.

However as of september, you have printers like the ip-1600 which take
pg-40 black and cl-41 color cartridges. It's a $50 printer and the
cartridges are of the head on board type, not only that but the color
is a tri color head on board type.

You also have the ip6210 and ip6220, not sure if these are Ds or not.
They take a black, a tri color, and a photo color cartridge, head on
board multi color except the black. cl-41 black, cl52 photo color,
cl-51 tri-color IIRC.

There is also the mp-130 which takes the pg-50 black and cl-51 color
Bigger black.

So yes, they dumped the head on board type but as of september they
reverted to it for their budget models.

FWIW, you are able to refill the chipped carts (supposing you can get
compatible bulk ink), and use them at the expense of ink monitoring.

Yes, you can refill these as far as I know... but you can't nessicarly
get thirdparty cartridges presently.

 

[measekite]

The ones on the cartridges are of the disposable type. In theory they
are built only to last the life of that cartridge, though most will last
considerably longer as can be seen by the number of people who success-
fully refill them. I refilled the same set of

Lexmark

:-( :-( :-(

cartridges for almost two years.

:-D :-D :-D

 

[Stephen Grossman]

Thanks to all for help. I'm confused at a higher level now.
Maybe I'll get a multifunction Canon or HP. I spent several
confusing hours at local stores which sell printers.

--
==================================================
A man of judgement, who could look both before and after.
HOMER, THE ILIAD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Radically systematic, radical metaphysics: "Existence 2"
http://home.att.net/~sdgross

 

[zakezuke]

Thanks to all for help. I'm confused at a higher level now.

Maybe I'll get a multifunction Canon or HP. I spent several
confusing hours at local stores which sell printers.

Yes, sales people can be bozos... rather than admit not knowing squat
they tend to make up stuff, or flood you with acronyms that may or may
not be associated with the product in question.

Canon is pretty spiffy on the compatabile cartridge front. They are so
bleeding simple that they are easy to duplicate though the current
generation is chipped which as of yet I have not seen offical
compatables. Manual refilling is an option but you have to disable
your ink meter {you're out of ink, you're out of ink, you're out of ink
press here to disable the meter} The "exception" to this is the canon
mp780 an all in one fax unit which is while technicaly last years model
has not been replaced by anything else. It's fax support is very
rudimentary, it does not support slide scanning that i'm aware, and the
software compliment is very minimal. But it's just like the ip4000
which has proven it self to be a very decent text and photo printer. I
have the mp760 which is the non-fax slide scanner model. I'm most
pleased though I did have to get it exchanged because of a minor
fault... exchange was painless.

HP has two styles of cartridges now, head on the cartridge and ink
tanks. The later i'm not sure about the refill options on... franky
it's too new. Refilled recycled cartridges are more common. HPs are
generally more full featured, have better software and features, and
are really worth considering.

Epson is also decent on the compatable cartridge front, though i've
fond them to be a tad fickle. Top notch photo printers though, and
option for pigmented ink. One model i'm told which supports solid
state media (memory stick, mmc and whatnot) i'm told permits scanning
to the card. Simple but handy feature. I can do that on my mp760 only
if the PC is on.

 

[Stephen Grossman]

Thanks to all for help. I'm confused at a higher level now.
Maybe I'll get a multifunction Canon or HP. I spent several
confusing hours at local stores which sell printers.

Yes, sales people can be bozos... rather than admit not knowing squat
they tend to make up stuff, or flood you with acronyms that may or may
not be associated with the product in question.[/QUOTE]

The many different models, not salespeople, confused me. I bought an
HP PSC 1510 for $100 and $20 extended service at Staples (14-day
return). A local computer tech recommended HP as 2nd in reliability to
Canon and this
model has a convenient and attractive rectangular (what is a 3-dimensional
rectangle; not a cube) shape which fits
nicely on a bureau where my old Lexmark was. My small computer table
now has more space because I removed my scanner. It's a compact
photo printer tho I have little need for photo precision. The help files
are confusing (illogical at times) so Im slogging thru a self-learning
experience. It's quite
fast and spits out a copy in an almost angry manner. I'm having difficulty
using OCR but I'll eventually wrestle it to the mat. The cartridges are
small and seem to empty at an alarming speed, even tho the salesman
said the interior baffles (not sponge) allowed more ink. I have not yet
found an online seller of compatible carts for it and welcome any
advice.

Its printing software does not, I believe (maybe Im wrong) , have a print
preview screen. My first printer, 4 yrs ago, an Epson 740, did and even
allowed,
if memory serves me well, me to change some things in the print preview
screen. Scanning controls (bright, contrast, etc) are slow compared to
my old UMax 610S scanner (but I may need more RAM which I am buying).

HP has two styles of cartridges now, head on the cartridge and ink
tanks. The later i'm not sure about the refill options on... franky
it's too new. Refilled recycled cartridges are more common. HPs are
generally more full featured, have better software and features, and
are really worth considering.

By two cartridge styles, do you mean printhead on cartridge and
printhead in printer? My HP has printhead on cartridge. What does
that mean for low prices when I need more ink?

Thanks for the help.

Please email, post.

--
==================================================
A man of judgement, who could look both before and after.
HOMER, THE ILIAD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Radically systematic, radical metaphysics: "Existence 2"
http://home.att.net/~sdgross