compatability with Vista

G

Guest

I am buying a Laptop and would like to get Vista on it but I am worried that
it will not be compatable with other computers without it or my printer
(Lexmark 4300 all in one). Previously my scanner was not compatable with XP.
 
M

Malke

Angels3bmd said:
I am buying a Laptop and would like to get Vista on it but I am worried that
it will not be compatable with other computers without it or my printer
(Lexmark 4300 all in one). Previously my scanner was not compatable with XP.

Go to Lexmark's website and look up whether your printer is compatible
with Vista. Do the same thing for other devices and programs.


Malke
 
G

Greg

Don't upgrade to Vista yet if you can avoid it. I couldn't find a state of
the art laptop without it though. MS are no longer selling XP preloaded on
machines. If you can find old stock in a store, buy it, or if you are
content with an older non-Core2Duo machine - most of those (if there are any
left) can still be got with XP on them.

I can't print from my laptop to my Lexmark Z25 when set as the Vista default
printer and connected to the USB port on the laptop. It's totally outrageous
that Vista cannot simply use XP drivers. It should be backwards compatible.
Things should become more, not less functional with a new OS! It would be so
easy for Microsoft to write an XP driver emulator but they won't.

Greg
 
C

Cari \(MS-MVP\)

The Z25 is a 10 year old printer. Lexmark are writing drivers for printers
issued in the last 5 years. They cannot support models for which their
research shows there are only a couple of users, it's not economically
viable.
 
G

Guest

Go back to microsoft main page, and type in "vista hardware compatibility" in
search. It takes you to a list of pages, pick the right one, and it lists
everything by type; i.e. printers, moniters, routers, etc
 
G

Greg

My Z25 is not a ten year old printer. It was manufactured in February 2003
and I bought it sometime that year. It is four years old. The Z25 was a
popular low end printer.

Besides, my point is that regardless of whether a manufacturer of a printer
decides to write Vista drivers for it, Microsoft should write their new
operating system so that it can use the drivers of the old operating system.
Is that too much to ask? Why on earth can't such a 'so-vista-cated' program
use the drivers employed by its less sophisticated previous incarnation? Why
should we have to buy new printers?
 
C

Cari \(MS-MVP\)

If Vista is made backwards compatible with all older hardware and software,
we might as well call it Windows 3.1 and be satisfied with the speed that it
manages to reach ie snail pace. At some point, one must move forward. What
was so wrong with your old PC that you required a new one? Did you perhaps
consider repairing or upgrading it before you purchased the new one? As far
as I'm aware, no one is forcing you to change to a new PC with Vista.

If you want to run at a high speed with today (and tomorrow's) technology,
you must accept that some old hardware and software will NOT be compatible
with it. If you want to keep this old hardware, then use your older PC.

And it's not when you purchased the printer, it's the date when the printer
was first manufactured. Lexmark are going back to 2003 with their Vista
drivers. Far enough to cover most printers still in service (according to
their records and research). It may have been a popular low end printer,
but apparently most of them are no longer working.
 
G

Greg

I can't believe this utter tripe! What a load of crap.

For a start I DIDN'T want a new laptop with vista on it I wanted a new
laptop with XP on it (better the devil you know) but because MS no longer
sells XP and because everyone knew that Vista would cause problems, all new
laptops with XP still on them were sold out!

Second, it would not be a very large amount of coding to make Vista simply
able to read and use any XP driver. That is logical and easy and would not
have the effect of slowing it down to a snail's pace. What a stupid
statement! What is so hard about writing a program that translates XP
drivers into Vista-speak? I DO NOT ACCEPT that a more sophisticated
operating system shouldn't be able to run something that a lesser
sophisticated one was able to. Unless it is a matter of outmoded hardware
(for eg. a printer that used an outmoded form of connector such as a
parallel cable, etc). There is nothing wrong with my printer - it can still
be connected to my laptop and it still does the job perfectly. I AM being
forced to upgrade it because of Microsoft's laziness and stupid lack of
concern for their users.

You may think it reasonable as a Microsoft devotee that a four year old
printer that still works perfectly can no longer be used. But I don't, and
neither do thousands of other ordinary people who are sick of Microsoft's
Big Brother mentality.
 
M

Michael Solomon

Greg said:
I can't believe this utter tripe! What a load of crap.

For a start I DIDN'T want a new laptop with vista on it I wanted a new
laptop with XP on it (better the devil you know) but because MS no
longer sells XP and because everyone knew that Vista would cause
problems, all new laptops with XP still on them were sold out!

Second, it would not be a very large amount of coding to make Vista
simply able to read and use any XP driver. That is logical and easy
and would not have the effect of slowing it down to a snail's pace.
What a stupid statement! What is so hard about writing a program that
translates XP drivers into Vista-speak? I DO NOT ACCEPT that a more
sophisticated operating system shouldn't be able to run something
that a lesser sophisticated one was able to. Unless it is a matter of
outmoded hardware (for eg. a printer that used an outmoded form of
connector such as a parallel cable, etc). There is nothing wrong with
my printer - it can still be connected to my laptop and it still does
the job perfectly. I AM being forced to upgrade it because of
Microsoft's laziness and stupid lack of concern for their users.

You may think it reasonable as a Microsoft devotee that a four year
old printer that still works perfectly can no longer be used. But I
don't, and neither do thousands of other ordinary people who are sick
of Microsoft's Big Brother mentality.
Greg, I don't blame you for being angry and you're right, there are a lot of
people in the same boat. That said, there are reasons, even if you won't or
don't accept them and it's a little more complicated than what you've
already heard here.

Unfortunately, a hallmark of Windows systems has been a lack of stability.
One of the major reasons for that lack of stability was drivers, either
because of sloppy coding from the manufacturer's or beecause their drivers
modified system files and it was allowed by the OS. With each iteration of
Windows, they've gotten a little tougher with regard to driver compatibility
and driver certification..

What is happening in Vista is evolutionary. It's not that Vista can't read
the drivers with which it is incompatible. It's that Vista is far less
forgiving than previous systems of uncertified drivers and drivers whose
installation routine would modify system files. Windows has been moving in
this direction for quite awhile. One of the reasons it's not as simple as
you think is, if a driver makes a change in system files, it ripples through
the entire setup and printing is a critical function of most applications.
Not only might this effect applications, allowing some of these drivers to
simply be installed on Vista could make your setup unstable. If not now,
perhaps as you go forward and/or might have an effect on other software or
hardware you might install.

This could adversly effect your setup even down the road when you might be
ready for a new printer or when your current printer just dies. If your
printer's driver installation modified system files, even when you uninstall
the printer and its software, the damage that its drivers did might still
remain. And, you then might be wondering, why isn't your new, fully
compatible Vista printer performing properly. Printing has changed a great
deal in the last four years and the printing subsystem needed to be updated
to accomodate user's needs and desires and those needs and desires might
reflect your own as well, if not today, perhaps down the road.

Even if that need never exists for you, there's still the issue of system
stability and, as I said, drivers have been a major choke point, a major
cause of issues. It's no secret, that each generation Windows has required
some hardware changes of the user. We had similar complaints when XP was
released but there's more this time because Vista is far less forgiving, far
less tollerant of bad drivers. And consider how long it's taking for new
Vista compatible hardware to reach the market. Usually, there's a lot of
new hardware available when an OS is released; not this time. The driver
certification process has been far more rigorous and this has slowed the
process down. Usually, there are a lot of new applications released to take
advantage of the new OS; not this time. Many developers are in a holding
pattern because they need to see some of this new hardware in order to see
how best their applications might take advantage of it.

I'm speaking as someone who is not all that crazy about Vista right now and
if you think its irritating to you that you have a 4 year old printer that
appears to have been made obsolete by the fact you needed a new computer at
this time, imagine how I feel having just purchased a new printer in
January that was promoted as Vista ready and as yet, there are still no
Vista drivers for it at the HP website; I guess, "ready" meaning it will be
compatible with Vista whenever HP can release the drivers.:) I'm not
trying to compare our pain, I'm pointing out to you that I'm feeling it too
despite the above.

That said, as a long time Windows user, going back to Windows 3.1 and 3.11,
I can appreciate the need to get tough with regard to drivers and while it's
a bit painful at the moment, I'm hopeful this will mean a better, more
stable system going forward.

I'm not trying to change your mind but I did think a little perspective and
additional explanation was necessary given how angry you are. I'm not
saying you're aren't justified in your anger or frustration but I hope the
above gives you a little more insight into what is going on and why.
 
G

Greg

Thanks for that long explanation Michael.

It is never as simple as it seems with anything to do with any MS product,
that's true. They have a way of designing things to be as big and cumbersome
and complicated as possible. I lament the days of the passing of the
Commodore Amiga. If only Mehdi Ali had been running MS and Bill Gates
running Commodore we would have had an OS a tenth the size and ten times
more efficiently coded. But no use crying over spilt milk. It's a monopoly
we have to deal with whether we like it or not.

What you said notwithstanding, I still say where there is a will there is a
way, and MS do not have the will to serve their clientele in this matter.
They could do whatever they put their mind to. Even if it really matters
that some older drivers change system settings (and I doubt that it does
really matter much in most cases), it would be a simple matter to have a
registry of changes that the driver software makes that could be rolled back
later when you want to add a vista-driven printer, in much the same way that
the existing system restore program allows you to specify restore points on
a wider level. It could be done, they just don't care to do it.

regards

Greg
 
D

Dan [MSFT]

Folks,

I get the frustration. Your printer works. You move to Vista. Your
printer doesn't work anymore. You posted here & no one has come forth with
a working solution to your problem.

Many of the changes we made in Vista for security & stability broke old code
& probably are what broke the driver for your device. When we took a look
at these changes, it was obvious that some code would be broken. We worked
with vendors, manufacturers. We released several betas. We have several
printer manufacturers in house to work with us every day.

Make no mistake; these changes in Vista are good for everyone. Not short
term good like everything that ran on XP runs on Vista, but long term good
like fewer security holes, fewer blue screens, fewer worms making life
unpleasant for everyone. We took a look at the work hardware vendors & our
customers would have to go through to deal with these problems and weighed
them against the costs of another big bad security problem. Clearly it's a
mixed bag, and I believe that our choice was the responsible one.

Can we do better? Yeah, I sure hope so. And if you have constructive
comments that can help us get there, many of us are reading these forums
looking for them (though you probably should start a new thread for them).
Can anyone at MSFT make your driver work on Vista? Nope. The manufacturer
is responsible for their drivers.

Thanks,
Dan

Greg said:
Thanks for that long explanation Michael.

It is never as simple as it seems with anything to do with any MS product,
that's true. They have a way of designing things to be as big and
cumbersome and complicated as possible. I lament the days of the passing
of the Commodore Amiga. If only Mehdi Ali had been running MS and Bill
Gates running Commodore we would have had an OS a tenth the size and ten
times more efficiently coded. But no use crying over spilt milk. It's a
monopoly we have to deal with whether we like it or not.

What you said notwithstanding, I still say where there is a will there is
a way, and MS do not have the will to serve their clientele in this
matter. They could do whatever they put their mind to. Even if it really
matters that some older drivers change system settings (and I doubt that
it does really matter much in most cases), it would be a simple matter to
have a registry of changes that the driver software makes that could be
rolled back later when you want to add a vista-driven printer, in much the
same way that the existing system restore program allows you to specify
restore points on a wider level. It could be done, they just don't care to
do it.

regards

Greg
 

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