communication with AVG re updating problems

[polly tito]

ok, they haven't exactly been forthcoming but I'll post it here anyway...

No further replies so far, most recent first

Summary, give up on them and switch to AVAST!

++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thank you for your reply

Whilst I fully appreciate that you would have less concern for users of your
free version than you would for paying customers of other versions, by
making a free version available you have a responsibility to ensure that it
can recieve updates just as efficiently as the paid for versions.

To fail to ensure this means you are placing your 'potential' customers at
risk. Should a user of your free version suffer a virus infection because
your update system failed they will not necessarily express understanding of
your commercial imperatives at the time tey are far more likely to dismiss
your product as sub-standard.

There is already evidence of this in various newsgroups i.e.
alt.com.anti-virus and it will not be long before such denigration is
replicated on the numerous 'support' sites.

Your program only came to my attention i the first place because I was able
to evaluate, long-term, for free. I have installed it on many clients
machines and have succesfully prompted some of them to upgrade. You may or
may not be aware that users of the paid for version are now suffering
similar updating problems.

I am now in the situation of having to advise my many clients that it may be
necessary to switch to an alternative product i.e. one which can be reliably
updated. I cannot see that this can be of any long term benefit to your
company.

Pending a suitable reply from yourselves I will be installing and
recommending AVAST for all my existing and future customers.

In short, if you cannot maintain a free version reliably then you should
withdraw it.

yours

++witheld++
----- Original Message -----
From: "AVG UK Sales" <[email protected]>
To: "address@removed>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: updating problems

 

[BF]

I switched yesterday. AVAST has found six email viruses in one day.
AVG never found any.

ok, they haven't exactly been forthcoming but I'll post it here anyway...

No further replies so far, most recent first

Summary, give up on them and switch to AVAST!

++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thank you for your reply

Whilst I fully appreciate that you would have less concern for users of your
free version than you would for paying customers of other versions, by
making a free version available you have a responsibility to ensure that it
can recieve updates just as efficiently as the paid for versions.

To fail to ensure this means you are placing your 'potential' customers at
risk. Should a user of your free version suffer a virus infection because
your update system failed they will not necessarily express understanding of
your commercial imperatives at the time tey are far more likely to dismiss
your product as sub-standard.

There is already evidence of this in various newsgroups i.e.
alt.com.anti-virus and it will not be long before such denigration is
replicated on the numerous 'support' sites.

Your program only came to my attention i the first place because I was able
to evaluate, long-term, for free. I have installed it on many clients
machines and have succesfully prompted some of them to upgrade. You may or
may not be aware that users of the paid for version are now suffering
similar updating problems.

I am now in the situation of having to advise my many clients that it may be
necessary to switch to an alternative product i.e. one which can be reliably
updated. I cannot see that this can be of any long term benefit to your
company.

Pending a suitable reply from yourselves I will be installing and
recommending AVAST for all my existing and future customers.

In short, if you cannot maintain a free version reliably then you should
withdraw it.

yours

++witheld++
----- Original Message -----
From: "AVG UK Sales" <[email protected]>
To: "address@removed>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: updating problems

note that
the

www.avguk.com/productssingle.html or

 

[Euclid]

I've read some other threads here and you both seem to be promoting AVAST.
Do you have any connection with their company?

I've been using AVG for a long time and had the update download problems
too, but they were cured by modifying the associated url.ini file as
mentioned elsewhere on this NG. Of course that indicates slovenly concern
for their software, and if they're lax in this area, maybe they're lax with
new virus definitions too. It's not a good sign.

The criticism of AVAST which bothers me the most is that it degrades
performance of the computer and applications. That would be very serious for
me, because performance is #1. I practice safe hex, and can live without any
anti-virus utility if necessary (I did for many years), but I absolutely
MUST have the best performance out of my computer's applications for various
good reasons.

My main interest in AVAST, if the above indicated performance problem isn't
too serious, is catching viruses in incoming emails. AVG doesn't do that
with my Outlook Express 6 email client. Will AVAST? I just need something
simple such as a popup that says: "Hey man, there's a virus in this cruddy
incoming email. Do you want to delete it, or what?" Does it do that?

I would also require the option to get my virus updates manually only, not
automatically. Does AVAST allow that? Reason: I don't want a time parser on
my machine to activate any action. The only exception is my screen saver.
Also these degrade computer performance and cause unnecessary hard drive
activity.
-E


I switched yesterday. AVAST has found six email viruses in one day.
AVG never found any.

ok, they haven't exactly been forthcoming but I'll post it here anyway...

No further replies so far, most recent first

Summary, give up on them and switch to AVAST!

++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thank you for your reply

Whilst I fully appreciate that you would have less concern for users of your
free version than you would for paying customers of other versions, by
making a free version available you have a responsibility to ensure that it
can recieve updates just as efficiently as the paid for versions.

To fail to ensure this means you are placing your 'potential' customers at
risk. Should a user of your free version suffer a virus infection because
your update system failed they will not necessarily express understanding of
your commercial imperatives at the time tey are far more likely to dismiss
your product as sub-standard.

There is already evidence of this in various newsgroups i.e.
alt.com.anti-virus and it will not be long before such denigration is
replicated on the numerous 'support' sites.

Your program only came to my attention i the first place because I was able
to evaluate, long-term, for free. I have installed it on many clients
machines and have succesfully prompted some of them to upgrade. You may or
may not be aware that users of the paid for version are now suffering
similar updating problems.

I am now in the situation of having to advise my many clients that it may be
necessary to switch to an alternative product i.e. one which can be reliably
updated. I cannot see that this can be of any long term benefit to your
company.

Pending a suitable reply from yourselves I will be installing and
recommending AVAST for all my existing and future customers.

In short, if you cannot maintain a free version reliably then you should
withdraw it.

yours

++witheld++
----- Original Message -----
From: "AVG UK Sales" <[email protected]>
To: "address@removed>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: updating problems

note that
the

www.avguk.com/productssingle.html or

 

[aa]

My main interest in AVAST, if the above indicated performance problem
isn't too serious, is catching viruses in incoming emails. AVG
doesn't do that with my Outlook Express 6 email client.

Strange, that's exactly what AVG *did* do in my OE6.

Will AVAST?

It certainly will.

I just need something simple such as a popup that says: "Hey man,
there's a virus in this cruddy incoming email. Do you want to delete
it, or what?" Does it do that?
Yes.


I would also require the option to get my virus updates manually
only, not automatically. Does AVAST allow that?

Yes.

 

[Euclid]

My main interest in AVAST, if the above indicated performance problem
isn't too serious, is catching viruses in incoming emails. AVG
doesn't do that with my Outlook Express 6 email client.

Strange, that's exactly what AVG *did* do in my OE6.

Will AVAST?

It certainly will.

I just need something simple such as a popup that says: "Hey man,
there's a virus in this cruddy incoming email. Do you want to delete
it, or what?" Does it do that?
Yes.


I would also require the option to get my virus updates manually
only, not automatically. Does AVAST allow that?

Yes.
--
aa
To reply by e-mail, 'Subject' line must start with "Re: "

___________________

Thanks.
I'm sufficiently motivated to download the latest AVAST version for a
possible trial. I'll particularly be looking at the alledged performance
degradation in comparison with AVG. If it sucks off more than 1% of my CPU's
time, or slows my primary (most important) application by more than 1%, or
causes constant blinking of my hard drive activity light, then I won't use
it. Time will tell...and I'll report back if I actually install it. I did
the same thing back in Oct'03 but never got around to trying AVAST because
AVG was already working fine. It's still working fine, but I would like to
detect viruses in incoming emails, which it doesn't do with my OE6. I have
no idea why that works for your OE6, but not my OE6. I'm running Windows XP
Home. I'm somewhat motivated by a recent intensive "virus attack" by
I-Worm/Netsky.Q, which didn't infect me but was somewhat unsettling. I worry
more now.
-E

 

[aa]

Have you got the setting for OE5 Plug in ticked in your AVG settings? Can't
otherwise understand your problem as it worked fine for me in detecting
incoming virus laden emails.

I'm running Avast on Windows XP Pro and the only degradation I've noticed
since installing it is that it takes my PC a little longer to shut down.

 

[aa]

Have you got the setting for OE5 Plug in ticked in your AVG settings?
Can't otherwise understand your problem as it worked fine for me in
detecting incoming virus laden emails.

I'm running Avast on Windows XP Pro and the only degradation I've
noticed since installing it is that it takes my PC a little longer to
shut down.

Remember too that Avast offers free technical support and have some
excellent forums (accessible via their website) to help with any specific
queries you might have.

 

[Gregg Cattanach]

I've read some other threads here and you both seem to be promoting AVAST.
Do you have any connection with their company?

I'm guessing that they are just satisfied users of AVAST, like myself.

I've been using AVG for a long time and had the update download problems
too, but they were cured by modifying the associated url.ini file as
mentioned elsewhere on this NG. Of course that indicates slovenly concern
for their software, and if they're lax in this area, maybe they're lax with
new virus definitions too. It's not a good sign.

The Avast updates happen without you ever having to schedule them or
remember to go to their website. It detects your net connection and then
checks to see if there is anything new. It then automatically installs the
update and informs you when it finishes.

The criticism of AVAST which bothers me the most is that it degrades
performance of the computer and applications. That would be very serious for
me, because performance is #1. I practice safe hex, and can live without any
anti-virus utility if necessary (I did for many years), but I absolutely
MUST have the best performance out of my computer's applications for various
good reasons.

I have a pretty fast machine, but I haven't notices ANY slowdowns using
Avast.

My main interest in AVAST, if the above indicated performance problem isn't
too serious, is catching viruses in incoming emails. AVG doesn't do that
with my Outlook Express 6 email client. Will AVAST? I just need something
simple such as a popup that says: "Hey man, there's a virus in this cruddy
incoming email. Do you want to delete it, or what?" Does it do that?

Avast works EXACTLY that way. Before it's downloaded the e-mail that
contains a virus, the warning window comes up and you have a choice what to
do with it, (delete, continue, quarantine).

I would also require the option to get my virus updates manually only, not
automatically. Does AVAST allow that? Reason: I don't want a time parser on
my machine to activate any action. The only exception is my screen saver.
Also these degrade computer performance and cause unnecessary hard drive
activity.
-E

With a constant internet connection I believe it checks every 4th hour to
see if there are new updates. With dial-up it just checks when it sees
you've reestablished a net connection, so no time parser used at all in that
case. I'd have to look to see if you can set all of this to manual. I
think your fear that time parsers (like the first option) degrade
performance is unwarranted. The cpu cycles required to do a timed check are
trivial, and they probably work without doing any hard drive access at all
(just a memory resident small program).

Gregg C.

 

[aa]

I've read some other threads here and you both seem to be promoting
AVAST. Do you have any connection with their company? [snip]
I would also require the option to get my virus updates manually
only, not automatically. Does AVAST allow that?

Yes no problem with that, in Avast settings you have the following choices
for both Virus Database *and* Program updates:

[ ] Automatic
[ ] Ask (user) when update is available
[ ] Manual

Just select the appropriate option.
Hope that helps.

 

[Peter Seiler]

BF - 31.03.2004 03:33 :

I switched yesterday. AVAST has found six email viruses in one day.
AVG never found any.

pleasy, why quoting ~170! lines total unnecessarily? You're not the only
one :-( This NG becomes more and more unreadable.

 

[polly tito]

Euclid wrote...

<I've read some other threads here and you both seem to be promoting AVAST.
Do you have any connection with their company?>

None whatsoever, i fact, before reading about it on this ng I'd never heard
of it. My main concern is that people who are unable to get an update are
exposed to risk. Rightly or wrongly many of my clients place their trust in
their AV program to keep them safe. If they catch a cold through AVG's
updating problems they will blame the program and AVG will find their
reputation eroded. If AVG's problems stem from the popularity of their
software I would have expected them to have re-configured their download
peering to maintain such popularity and increase their market share.

It may well be that, in times to come, AVAST might encounter similar
problems in which case, like a truly selfish software whore, I will go
seeking the next best thing. So far though I have been more than pleased
with every aspect of the program and it identified an archived virus that
AVG had missed over months of regular scans.

aa wrote...

<My main interest in AVAST, if the above indicated performance problem isn't
too serious>

I would suggest that if AVAST was to create a noticeable footprint then you
could possibly look at upgrading hardware or cleaning up your config. I
tested it out on a PIII-450/128mb test system before installing it on any of
my regular systems and noticed no overhead at all other than when generating
the VRDB which was solved by triggering it manually.

polly

 

[Euclid]

[Note to aa: No, I don't have the Outlook Express 5 plugin activated in AVG
because it kills my smart mouse pointer, which ordinarly jumps to the most
likely button to click on popup dialogs. That's worth a LOT to me, saves me
a lot of effort & time, and I wouldn't be without it.]

I uninstalled AVG, then installed AVAST, and spent several hours trying to
figure it out before I went online. Their Help has a lot of excess verbiage
and I encountered a learning curve. It is written in fairly good English,
but written by someone for whom English is not their 1st language, so it
lacks clarity. I would advise them to condense their Help to no more than
25% of the current size, and simplify the design of their software
accordingly. Their "skin" also wasn't easy to understand. I had no idea what
it was when it first appeared, and it took a long time to figure it out. I
eventually discovered that there were popups over each icon/graphic in the
skin, if I hovered the mouse pointer for several seconds (they were very
slow to appear). Setting up the AVAST file recovery database took a long
time (maybe an hour? - I went outside to do some yard work, so don't know
exactly) and it used about 30% of the processor during that process. So I
wouldn't want to do it very often. I then tried running my primary
application and didn't notice a slowdown, as I had feared. I didn't get
quite over newbie learning curve hump, but went online anyway to see what
would happen...

Bad I intended to register as one of the first things, so clicked on the first
popup that had a registration link and...my computer froze. It was dead as a
dodo bird. Nothing worked. The taskbar was dead. Ctrl-Alt-Delete didn't
work. Even my computer clock stopped. As best I can recall I have not
encountered that phenomenon since I stopped using W98se last summer and
bought this new computer with Windows XP Home. I waited about a half hour,
but it wouldn't resolve itself. There was only one possible way to recover -
turn off the computer power. Of course that risks trashing the disk, but
insofar as I can tell so far, I was lucky. No apparent damage, although it
will take quite awhile to know for sure.

Of course I promptly uninstalled AVAST and went back to AVG.

So I'll leave AVAST to you folks who understand such things. I need
something simpler with a more integrated design anyway. To be truthful, I
didn't like the AVAST appearance or design from the very first, but
attempted to keep an open mind and give it a fair tryout anyway.

I don't really want to deal with a bunch of separate modules and make a lot
of decisions, and I don't really want to learn anything new. I just want the
darned thing to block viruses, and remain unobstrusive otherwise.
-E

Have you got the setting for OE5 Plug in ticked in your AVG settings?
Can't otherwise understand your problem as it worked fine for me in
detecting incoming virus laden emails.

I'm running Avast on Windows XP Pro and the only degradation I've
noticed since installing it is that it takes my PC a little longer to
shut down.

Remember too that Avast offers free technical support and have some
excellent forums (accessible via their website) to help with any specific
queries you might have.

 

[Herbert West]

Of course I promptly uninstalled AVAST and went back to AVG.

So I'll leave AVAST to you folks who understand such things. I need
something simpler with a more integrated design anyway. To be truthful, I
didn't like the AVAST appearance or design from the very first, but
attempted to keep an open mind and give it a fair tryout anyway.

I don't really want to deal with a bunch of separate modules and make a lot
of decisions, and I don't really want to learn anything new. I just want the
darned thing to block viruses, and remain unobstrusive otherwise.
-E

I don't have a problem with the seperate modules. I ininstalled AVAST
and went back to AVG. The first thing I always with a new AV scanner
is test it against the EICAR Standard Test File.

While AVAST loudly detects the EICAR file during manual scanning, it
allows it to be RUN WITHOUT ISSUING *ANY* WARNING! I assume the same
behaviour holds for real viruses as well.

Imagine if I accidently clicked on a *real* virus!

I'm running on default AVAST settings. I supppose I have to
specifically set AVAST to *not* run viruses without warning when an
infected file is clocked on? WEIRD! No protection in realtime is
pretty lame. I must be missing something. If somebody can explain
the above, I might reinstall AVAST.

I'm running Windows ME and migrated from AVG 6.0. AVG is completely
shut down and its processes terminated during my test of AVAST.


TIA for any answers!

 

[Herbert West]

BTW, I'd test it to see if it displays the same behaviour with real
viruses as it does with EICAR, but I don't have the luxury of a
sandbox system nowadays. :-(

 

[Tech Zero]

The voice of "Euclid" drifted in on the cyber-winds,
from the sea of virtual chaos...

Strange, that's exactly what AVG *did* do in my OE6.

From what I've seen here...
With the plug-in turned on it automatically dumps known viruses into
it's Virus Vault when a folder is first opened, and dumps the user back
to the default folder (viewed when OE is first opened). This is
usually how I know it found something... When I go back to that folder
and open a suspect, I find AVG has replaced the attachment.

Without the plug-in turned on you leaving it up to AVG's Resident
Shield to detect the virus as it's opened into memory. While that
*may* work it's not as reliable as the plug-in since in some cases the
viral could shutdown AVG before it's Resident Shield can detect it.

 

[aa]

[Note to aa: No, I don't have the Outlook Express 5 plugin activated
in AVG because it kills my smart mouse pointer, which ordinarly jumps
to the most likely button to click on popup dialogs. That's worth a
LOT to me, saves me a lot of effort & time, and I wouldn't be without
it.]

I uninstalled AVG, then installed AVAST, and spent several hours
trying to figure it out before I went online. [snip]
Bad I intended to register as one of the first things, so clicked on the
first popup that had a registration link and...my computer froze. [snip]
Of course I promptly uninstalled AVAST and went back to AVG.

So I'll leave AVAST to you folks who understand such things. I need
something simpler with a more integrated design anyway. To be
truthful, I didn't like the AVAST appearance or design from the very
first, but attempted to keep an open mind and give it a fair tryout
anyway.

I don't really want to deal with a bunch of separate modules and make
a lot of decisions, and I don't really want to learn anything new. I
just want the darned thing to block viruses, and remain unobstrusive
otherwise. -E

Sorry to hear of the issues you experienced with the install of Avast. Great
pity, as on my XP Pro it works like a dream. It is a bit concerning though
that you have now reverted to AVG (presumably with the OE5 plug-in option
still unticked) leaving you with only the protection of the Resident Shield,
As 'Tech Zero' says, that's not (apparently) such a good idea.

Have you considered any other free alternatives eg. AntiVir
http://www.free-av.com/ ?

 

[Geese_Hunter]

BTW, I'd test it to see if it displays the same behaviour with real
viruses as it does with EICAR, but I don't have the luxury of a
sandbox system nowadays. :-(

Yep it's a shame you had a problem with Avast. I only had an issue the
1st time I installed Avast on the 1st PC, I just stopped AVG, but after
I tried setting up Avast the resident wasn't active, I noticed in Task
manager 1 part of AV was still running. After I terminated that & un
installed AVG, rebooted, everything started as it should. & I actually
had to go into AVAST & turn on the check in silent mode. I think I also
had to turn on scan all extensions when accessed.
When I install AVAST on pc's now:
1. I download the program from their site.
2. Register it to send to the e-mail account of the client
3. Copy the License key into notepad & save it.
4. Run an on-line scan with trend micro
5. Get off the net
6. shut down AVG & un install it.
7. Reboot
8. Install AVAST, then reboot & enter the License key & reboot
9. Open Avast & check the settings, make certain modifications & run a
complete scan.

I haven't looked at their documentation, the next time I install it,
I'll try use their documentation.

 

[Euclid]

[Note to aa: No, I don't have the Outlook Express 5 plugin activated
in AVG because it kills my smart mouse pointer, which ordinarly jumps
to the most likely button to click on popup dialogs. That's worth a
LOT to me, saves me a lot of effort & time, and I wouldn't be without
it.]

I uninstalled AVG, then installed AVAST, and spent several hours
trying to figure it out before I went online. [snip]
Bad I intended to register as one of the first things, so clicked on the
first popup that had a registration link and...my computer froze. [snip]
Of course I promptly uninstalled AVAST and went back to AVG.

So I'll leave AVAST to you folks who understand such things. I need
something simpler with a more integrated design anyway. To be
truthful, I didn't like the AVAST appearance or design from the very
first, but attempted to keep an open mind and give it a fair tryout
anyway.

I don't really want to deal with a bunch of separate modules and make
a lot of decisions, and I don't really want to learn anything new. I
just want the darned thing to block viruses, and remain unobstrusive
otherwise. -E

Sorry to hear of the issues you experienced with the install of Avast. Great
pity, as on my XP Pro it works like a dream. It is a bit concerning though
that you have now reverted to AVG (presumably with the OE5 plug-in option
still unticked) leaving you with only the protection of the Resident Shield,
As 'Tech Zero' says, that's not (apparently) such a good idea.

Have you considered any other free alternatives eg. AntiVir
http://www.free-av.com/ ?
--
aa
To reply by e-mail, 'Subject' line must start with "Re: "
___________________

Thanks for the link. AntiVir sounds like a possibility. My son mentioned it
to me recently but didn't pass along the link. I'll probably try it because,
as you say, I'd feel more secure if my emails were automatically checked for
viruses. I practice safe hex normally, but nobody's perfect and I might
forget & slipup.
-E

 

[FromTheRafters]

Without the plug-in turned on you leaving it up to AVG's Resident
Shield to detect the virus as it's opened into memory. While that
*may* work it's not as reliable as the plug-in since in some cases...

How could AVG fail "on access" and still have had the
ability to detect successfully with the plug-in? Aside from
the uncertainty principle, shouldn't they perform equally
well when scanning a file?

the viral could shutdown AVG before it's Resident Shield can detect it.

Disturbing...how does this happen?

 

[Tech Zero]

The voice of "FromTheRafters" drifted in on the cyber-winds,
from the sea of virtual chaos...

How could AVG fail "on access" and still have had the
ability to detect successfully with the plug-in? Aside from
the uncertainty principle, shouldn't they perform equally
well when scanning a file?

Every process on a computer has a certain priority level, and given
Grisoft's unwillingness to slow a system down with its Resident Shield,
it's probably set to a low priority. When OE is running it has a
higher priority then AVG, allowing the possibility that something
executed in OE could get a higher priority then the Resident Shield
(depending on OS).

Now, if various exploits in OE are left un-patched, or if our intrepid
user is click happy... BANG, infected before AVG can check.

True it's a fine margin, a few seconds at best...
But it's still a possibility.

Fortunately if the virus fails to close AVG it's RS will find it and
alert the user that they're infected. But would you conceder it a
failed by then, since the virus has "installed" itself on your HD?

Disturbing...how does this happen?

Many current viral variants will try to shut down certain running
processes in an attempt to prevent detection. It's almost common
practice in the latest ones... As well as shutting down some of the
competition...