Casing gives current

[Al Smith]

Ripping the third prong off indeed, what do you

live in a 1900's farm house?

The house was built around 1960, and the wiring is the original
wiring. Some outlets have a triple socket, others (like the one in
my computer room) do not. I remember a time when plugs for
toasters, drills and so on only had two prongs. Funny how we all
stayed alive, and didn't electrocute ourselves in those dark days,
isn't it?

 

[VWWall]

The house was built around 1960, and the wiring is the original wiring.
Some outlets have a triple socket, others (like the one in my computer
room) do not. I remember a time when plugs for toasters, drills and so
on only had two prongs. Funny how we all stayed alive, and didn't
electrocute ourselves in those dark days, isn't it?

I'd check the ones with a "triple socket" for proper ground to the third
"round hole". Some people replaced ungrounded receptacles with "triple"
outlets, leaving the socket ground connection un-attached to a proper
ground. In the case of your computer, a proper case ground does more
than saving you from an improbable, but possible lethal fault to the
case. It also aids in preventing RF interference to, or from the computer.

Most two prong appliances are supplied with polarized plugs, with one
plug blade wider than the other. This will insure that possibly exposed
parts of the appliance are connected to the neutral, not the hot wire.
This assumes the outlets are polarized and correctly wired!

As another Al Smith said: "Let's look at the record." Just read the
reports of injury and deaths caused by improperly grounded equipment.
I'm happy you've been lucky so far! I hope your wife and kids, if
any, remain equally lucky!

Virg Wall, Registered Professional Electrical Engineer E-5107

 

[David Besack]

The house was built around 1960, and the wiring is the original

wiring. Some outlets have a triple socket, others (like the one in
my computer room) do not. I remember a time when plugs for
toasters, drills and so on only had two prongs. Funny how we all
stayed alive, and didn't electrocute ourselves in those dark days,
isn't it?

Not ALL of us.

Yes, the chances are low, and you most probably will be okay. But
counciling that it's "no big deal" isn't the right thing to do.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Becarefull, i wrote almost the same, with poorer English, and i nearly
was called a murderer. But like you also state, there is no real danger

FALSE, there is potential extreme danger.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

The house was built around 1960, and the wiring is the original
wiring. Some outlets have a triple socket, others (like the one in
my computer room) do not. I remember a time when plugs for
toasters, drills and so on only had two prongs. Funny how we all
stayed alive, and didn't electrocute ourselves in those dark days,
isn't it?

Get a clue. Go back and study some history and determine the number of
deaths.

 

[David Maynard]

The house was built around 1960, and the wiring is the original wiring.
Some outlets have a triple socket, others (like the one in my computer
room) do not. I remember a time when plugs for toasters, drills and so
on only had two prongs. Funny how we all stayed alive, and didn't
electrocute ourselves in those dark days, isn't it?

What isn't funny is that not 'all' *did* 'stay alive' and that's why the
electrical code was changed.

 

[Al Smith]

Most two prong appliances are supplied with polarized plugs, with one plug blade wider than the other. This will insure that possibly exposed parts of the appliance are connected to the neutral, not the hot wire.

This assumes the outlets are polarized and correctly wired!

As another Al Smith said: "Let's look at the record." Just read the reports of injury and deaths caused by improperly grounded equipment.
I'm happy you've been lucky so far! I hope your wife and kids, if any, remain equally lucky!

Virg Wall, Registered Professional Electrical Engineer E-5107

I do have one appliance that makes me nervous. It's a drill, circa
1954 or so, that has an all-aluminum body, and has had the third
prong cut off for as long as it's been around. My father used it
to build the house I lived in as a kid, and after he died, I
inherited it and have used it for the last 30 years or so.
Sometimes I wonder what would happen if it shorted out internally
against the side of the aluminum housing when my hand was sweating
and I was gripping it hard and bearing down on the bit.

 

[VWWall]

I do have one appliance that makes me nervous. It's a drill, circa 1954
or so, that has an all-aluminum body, and has had the third prong cut
off for as long as it's been around. My father used it to build the
house I lived in as a kid, and after he died, I inherited it and have
used it for the last 30 years or so. Sometimes I wonder what would
happen if it shorted out internally against the side of the aluminum
housing when my hand was sweating and I was gripping it hard and bearing
down on the bit.

Many modern drills are "double insulated", and hence don't require a
grounded body to be safe, so a two prong plug is OK.

It depends on which route through your body the current takes. A path
through the heart area can cause fibrillation with as little as a few
thousanths of an ampere. On the other hand, larger currents sometimes
contract the chest muscles enough to prevent heart damage. Then all
you'd get is bad burns at the current entry and exit points and possible
muscle damage. Russian roulette!

I would sure put a three conductor cord on the drill with a good ground
prong, and attach the ground conductor, (green), to the drill casing.
With a correctly installed three-prong socket, the three-prong plug on
the cord will properly ground the drill casing. It probably needs a new
line cord anyway! If you don't have grounded sockets they're adapters
available that will allow a three prong plug to be used, but you must
provide the ground. A three prong socket without a ground is a real danger.

Virg Wall

 

[Dee]

I do have one appliance that makes me nervous. It's a drill, circa 1954
or so, that has an all-aluminum body, and has had the third prong cut
off for as long as it's been around. My father used it to build the
house I lived in as a kid, and after he died, I inherited it and have
used it for the last 30 years or so. Sometimes I wonder what would
happen if it shorted out internally against the side of the aluminum
housing when my hand was sweating and I was gripping it hard and bearing
down on the bit.

If it shorted out as you describe, you wouldn't have to wonder about the
results, because you wouldn't be here!

 

[Dee]

If you're dealing with appliances in the U.S. of A. your life is in
jeopardy! If you're in the E.U. it's much safer! In Europe the
appliances have the source voltage isolated in a manner that prevents
the handler/operator from being electrocuted. However, in the U.S. of
A. they don't provide such safety because the manufactures claim it
would be "too expensive" to implement! Therefore, the the actual hazard
to such a condition as originally described depends entirely on where
you live. If you don't live in the U.S. of A. then your safety is
probably considerably better than if you do! On the other hand, if you
do reside in the U.S. of A., you can sue the manufacturer, if you
survive, and have a significantly better chance of being able to retire
for the rest of your life. The U.S. of A. slogan is "Sue the
Son-of-a-Bitch for all you can!!!" And it turns out to be a very
profitable attitude in the current U.S. of A. society(?).

 

[Ron Reaugh]

If it shorted out as you describe, you wouldn't have to wonder about the
results, because you wouldn't be here!

That's an exaggeration. I don't know what the percentage would be but
likely less than 10% chance of death and probably much less. The point is
that the chance of death is NOT miniscule.

 

[Al Smith]

happen if it shorted out internally against the side of the aluminum

That's an exaggeration. I don't know what the percentage would be but
likely less than 10% chance of death and probably much less. The point is
that the chance of death is NOT miniscule.

I think it was my brother (who took all the courses to become an
electrician, but didn't because the damned union got him fired
from his apprentice job because he wasn't on the top of their
list) who told me the story of an electrician who used to test
live circuits by wetting his finger and sticking it into the fuse
hole. Everyone else was horrified that he would do that. They used
to cringe when they saw it. He told them there was nothing to
worry about, he was used to it, and electricity didn't bother him.
One day he electrocuted himself.

 

[larrymoencurly]

Many modern drills are "double insulated", and hence don't require a
grounded body to be safe, so a two prong plug is OK.

I see many power tools with large areas of exposed metal on the
outside, yet they're still classified as "double insulated." How can
this be? For example, corded electric drills are often aluminum in
the front 2" of the body, circular saws almost always have a metal
blade guard, and in both situations this metal is in direct contact
with metal parts of the motor.

 

[Greg G.]

larrymoencurly said:

I see many power tools with large areas of exposed metal on the
outside, yet they're still classified as "double insulated." How can
this be? For example, corded electric drills are often aluminum in
the front 2" of the body, circular saws almost always have a metal
blade guard, and in both situations this metal is in direct contact
with metal parts of the motor.

Double insulation refers to the fact that the armature has two levels
of insulation - the windings are insulated, and the bobbin that the
windings are on is insulated from the motor shaft with an epoxy insert
that provides an additional layer of insulation. Generally, the
brushes and wiring are also contained in a plastic housing. The metal
portion principally houses the reduction gears and bushings/bearings.

FWIW,

Greg G.

 

[Andrew]

I do have one appliance that makes me nervous. It's a drill, circa 1954 or
so, that has an all-aluminum body, and has had the third prong cut off for
as long as it's been around. My father used it to build the house I lived
in as a kid, and after he died, I inherited it and have used it for the
last 30 years or so. Sometimes I wonder what would happen if it shorted
out internally against the side of the aluminum housing when my hand was
sweating and I was gripping it hard and bearing down on the bit.

I can tell you fist hand. It REALLY hurts. I'd buy a new drill.

 

[Andrew]

Many modern drills are "double insulated", and hence don't require a
grounded body to be safe, so a two prong plug is OK.

Look STUPID. He says it's from 1954
And the rest of the stuff you typed is shitless.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

larrymoencurly said:


Double insulation refers to the fact that the armature has two levels
of insulation - the windings are insulated, and the bobbin that the
windings are on is insulated from the motor shaft with an epoxy insert
that provides an additional layer of insulation. Generally, the
brushes and wiring are also contained in a plastic housing. The metal
portion principally houses the reduction gears and bushings/bearings.

And of course it's all hermetically sealed such that when you drop it in
salt water no current escapes...I didn't think so. Use a third ground wire.

 

[David Maynard]

I see many power tools with large areas of exposed metal on the
outside, yet they're still classified as "double insulated." How can
this be? For example, corded electric drills are often aluminum in
the front 2" of the body, circular saws almost always have a metal
blade guard, and in both situations this metal is in direct contact
with metal parts of the motor.

"Double insulated" doesn't mean there are no exposed metal parts (although
an all plastic outer shell might be one way to achieve it). It means there
are two, separate, layers of insulation between the live parts and anything
exposed to human contact. The theory being that if one fails the other
still provides isolation and, further, that the one likely to fail would
be, for example, the motor windings, rendering the tool unusable (I.E. a
second failure unlikely since why would you be trying to use a non working
tool?), with the armature insulating bobbin (second layer) still intact and
isolating the metal parts.

That doesn't mean the thing is utterly safe from abuse or something stupid
like dropping it in a filled bathtub or some nut shoving bent paper clips
into the vent holes. It simply means that it has double protective layers
to reduce the chance of shock when it's *properly handled*.

It is, of course, still better to have the third wire ground as well as the
'double insulation'.

 

[kony]

I do have one appliance that makes me nervous. It's a drill, circa
1954 or so, that has an all-aluminum body, and has had the third
prong cut off for as long as it's been around. My father used it
to build the house I lived in as a kid, and after he died, I
inherited it and have used it for the last 30 years or so.
Sometimes I wonder what would happen if it shorted out internally
against the side of the aluminum housing when my hand was sweating
and I was gripping it hard and bearing down on the bit.

Replace the cord, brushes, (and bearings if possible), then
polish it up and never use it... a collector's item.

 

[Ed Cregger]

Get it bronzed and mount it on a trophy board with an appropriately worded
engraved placard.

While that drill is capable of outlasting every car that you will ever buy
in your life time, there comes a time to retire obsolete/dangerous tools.

I have an all metal drill that was given to me as a door prize nearly forty
years ago. It has outlasted all of its double insulated, plastic brethren,
but it too has finally been retired for similar reasons to yours.

Ed Cregger