Canon IP5000 or IP8500?

[Burt]

You are definitely high maintenance - Ron and I both can vouch for
Alotofthings and they clearly identify and sell the ink you would prefer if
your were to use third party inks/carts. Time to let go of your unfounded,
mean-spirited prejudice.

 

[Ron Cohen]

I have no idea what brand ink is in the cartridges, however I read a posting
(a long time ago so take it with a grain of salt) that Rainbow carts had
Formulabs ink in them. Other than that all I know is that the ink worked
fine in all my printers and once empty I refill the cartridges with
Formulabs ink. I also have a set of test prints I created when I first got
my iP4000. The set consists of color charts (from the alotofthings website)
and photos I took with an Olympus c-3000 digital camera. The set was printed
with original Canon cartridges that came with the printer, then the Canon
tanks were removed and replaced by a set of USA (from tylermartin)
cartridges. After printing several purge pages to clear any residual Canon
ink from the printhead the set was again printed. This same procedure was
repeated with new Arrow cartridges, a set of freshly refilled cartridges
from my latest order of bulk ink from Alotofthings and then with a old set
of tanks removed from my i950 refilled with Formulabs ink which came from an
ink order placed well over a year earlier. All of these tests were printed
on Office Depot Premium High Gloss paper. Because of the wide variations in
age of inks and where the inks came from - Canon, Alotofthings & TylerMartin
it would have been reasonable to expect at least minor differences in the
coloration of each set. That wasn't the case. I couldn't detect any
variations and the only way I could tell the source of the ink on each sheet
was from the handwritten notations I made on the back side of each sheet.
Bottom line to me is that if it works, produces the desired output and
doesn't damage the printer then I really don't care what the source of the
ink is. Since all of the above meet that criteria, I go for the best prices.

 

[Burt]

Guess you never shopped at Fry's! I haven't been there in years, but the
one time I did go to their store down on the San Francisco bay area
peninsula it was as much a grocery store as a great store for computers and
electronics. Diet pills might just be the right thing to sell along with
computer supplies for some whose butts are glued to the chair in front of
our computers too many hours a day.

 

[measekite]

There actually are some carts that might be better. Canon carts have two
sponges in the sponge compartment. The top one does not take up ink very
well in refilling. It is a different density of foam. There are some
aftermarket carts with a single foam sponge instead, and they tend to refill
better than OEM carts. This is covered very well in the Nifty-Stuff inkjet
forum where people have taken the carts apart and analyzed them. I do have
MIS carts that I buy empty and refill. They are excellent and work
interchangeably with the OEM carts. Ron Cohen uses Arrow carts, purchased
from Alotofthings and refills them.
alotofcrap

They work perfectly as well. The
people who mfgr aftermarket carts have undoubtedly reverse-engineered them

Apparently Epson does not think so as they are suing someone for patent
infringement. Epson is going the extra mile in designing carts that are
difficult to refill in order to discourage the practice regardless of
what they admit too. In a way I cannot blame them.

and designed them to work properly with Canon printers. The ones that have
survived in the marketplace for five or more years wouldn't have stayed in
business had their products not performed properly.

Why not. Chrysler is still selling cars. OK, I do undertand that they
were saved by the US government and then the Germans came to the
rescue. So they have survived for 5 years.

I would bet that Canon prepares the specs and outsources carts and inks,
just as the air, oil, and fuel filters you have installed at the Acura
dealer's repair dept have an Acura logo but are absolutely outsourced (to
say nothing of many of the components in every car on the road).

That is a distinct possibility.

 

[measekite]

You are definitely high maintenance - Ron and I both can vouch for
Alotofthings

you mean alotofcrap

 

[Bill]

Canon formulates all of the ink that is sold under their name.

I don't believe Canon manufactures nor formulates ink.

You do realize there are only a few ink manufacturers, and all of the
big printer companies buy from them, including Canon, Epson, HP, and
Lexmark.

alotofcrap

Have you purchased from them and not been satisfied with their products?

If so, please elaborate.

 

[measekite]

I have no idea what brand ink is in the cartridges, however I read a posting
(a long time ago so take it with a grain of salt) that Rainbow carts had
Formulabs ink in them.

Are you saying that the mfg of the Rainbow carts has them prefilled with
Sensinet ink and then sell they to web vendors or resell them under some
Label? Or is it the vendor who buys Rainbow BRANDED mfg carts and
prefill themselves with what ever they choose and then resells them?

 

[measekite]

Guess you never shopped at Fry's! I haven't been there in years, but the
one time I did go to their store down on the San Francisco bay area
peninsula it was as much a grocery store as a great store for computers and
electronics.

Why are you showing your ignorance?

Diet pills might just be the right thing to sell along with
computer supplies for some whose butts are glued to the chair in front of
our computers too many hours a day.

Exlax will do for those.

 

[measekite]

measekite wrote:




I don't believe Canon manufactures nor formulates ink.

You do realize there are only a few ink manufacturers, and all of the
big printer companies buy from them, including Canon, Epson, HP, and
Lexmark.

Canon designed and formulated their ink, their paper and their printer
to all work together. Even the majority of the members of the
AFTERMARKET club will not deny that. And the same goes for Epson and Canon.

 

[Bill]

Canon designed and formulated their ink, their paper and their printer
to all work together. Even the majority of the members of the
AFTERMARKET club will not deny that. And the same goes for Epson and Canon.

I wasn't aware of such a club...

But yes, they're intended to work together just like the other printer
brands. And there are numerous combinations that work just as well, even
when mixing and matching different brands.

Which just goes to show that ink, paper, and printers are not magical
items with mythical properties that only Canon can replicate.

I noticed you avoided answering this part...

 

[Burt]

No use confusing him with the facts, Bill, he has already made up his mind.
Hard to believe that this guy claims to have an MBA from Stanford.

 

[measekite]

measekite wrote:




I wasn't aware of such a club...

But yes, they're intended to work together just like the other printer
brands. And there are numerous combinations that work just as well, even
when mixing and matching different brands.

Which just goes to show that ink, paper, and printers are not magical
items with mythical properties that only Canon can replicate.




I noticed you avoided answering this part...

alotofcrap's products are not the issue. the unprofessional
organization, and their presale customer lack of service is.

 

[Burt]

Bill - Measekite is pissed off because he tried to give them some
unsolicited "constructive advice" about how they run their business and
apparently he didn't like their reply. So far he has not shared the actual
response with us on the NG so we are left with his description of their
email as unprofessional and poor customer relations. To be perfectly fair
he should share both his email to them and their response to him with us and
let us judge for ourselves. Personally, if someone, out of the blue, sent
me emails telling me how to run my business I'd give them the highway sign!

 

[Arthur Entlich]

We've been through the whys of companies advertising or exposing the
brands of the inks. Some may be able to do so, and some simply cannot
for legal or business reasons.

I leave it to individuals to decide if refilling is worthwhile for them
or not.

This is just not as "black or white" as some have portrayed it.

I always suggest people considering their first time use of 3rd party
inks try to get reliable information about vendors before making a
decision, and look for vendors which offer some type of warranty.

Like everything in life, one needs to weight the risk benefit ratio and
make a decision that is meaningful individually.

Art