CANON: DESIGNED TO FAIL by a dishonest company

D

Dan G

LOL
I love Canons, they are by far the cheapest to operate. The cost of the
printer is irrelevant, it's the cost per page that makes it a value or not.
My Canon S750 printed 10's of thousands of pages, and ink costs were about
$50 for all of that. (I refill). So when the head finally died, I was not at
all upset, it was an excuse to buy a new PIXMA, which is a way better
printer and uses the same cheap ink!! 15 years ago, $500 was a "cheap"
printer, and given the relatively low quality that such a printer puts out,
seeing it die should be a relief.
 
G

GP

chuck said:
then why didn't you buy an hp at the time?

Because Canon's prints were slightly better better and I had no idea of the
relative reliability of both prodcts and about Canon's dishonesty .
seems like you are just not
gonna be happy with anything you buy.

Where do you get that from dumbbell? What's your source?

I usually take quite a lot of time before buying a product and am usually
satisfied with the products I buy.
how long does something have to last
before
you are happy with it?

I already answered this.
From reading some of you posts, it seems like
they did
what they could for you and you

You mean like absolutely refusing to tell me where that little sponge in the
purge unit was, dumbbell?
are just not happy with that. so now
I bet for the next few weeks, you are gonna be working on
this problem.

Soon, for the next few /years/, I'll have everything I need to cut and paste.
References at Google's, etc.

Shit, I can't believe this. Canon would have no interest in me repeating the
story on how full of shit they are, refusing to give the plainest explanations
to grab their customer's money.

HP troll maybe...

GP
 
M

measekite

chuck said:
then why didn't you buy an hp at the time? seems like you are just not
gonna
be happy with anything you buy. how long does something have to last
before
you are happy with it? From reading some of you posts, it seems like
they did
what they could for you and you are just not happy with that. so now
its back
to you and i guess your are just sitting at your computer waiting to
respond
to people here. I bet for the next few weeks, you are gonna be working on
this problem. I hope you have a lot of free time, otherwise it just seems
like a waste when you got 15 years of service out of it.
I thought children and others having underage brains were allowed to post.
 
D

Dan G

I thought children and others having underage brains were allowed to post.

The original poster has demonstrated this fact very well, and continues to
verify it.

"It's better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you're an idiot,
than to open it and remove all doubt. "
 
S

Stick Stickus

Dear Sir,

I run a shop in the UK, in part of which, we stock and sell canon printers.
Over the period of life the shop has been open (2 years) we have, initially,
stocked Epson, Hp and Canon printers.

For various reason including; build quality, reliability, print quality and
cost effectiveness, we have reduced the stock range to Canon only.
It is fair to say that NO computer or peripheral is built to last forever.
Technology is always on the move forward. The equipment you purchase is the
best at that time, it is also obsolete the day of purchase. We are always
playing 'catch up'. We have found that Canon printers give us fewest
problems and are certainly the most cost effective to run, with new
cartridges from £4 and refills from £3.

It seems to me that you are complaining for the sake of it. To find the
purge or waste ink tank all you had to do was look into the printer when the
cover was open and with little looking you would have seen it.

Had you purchased an Epson printer then, it may still have been running but
more likely you would have had to replace the print head, which, as it is
built into the machine would probably cost more than the printer itself. I
am sure that during that period of time you certainly would have had to
replace any HP cartridges should you have had a HP printer for the same
period, that would also probably have cost you more that the printer.

It is fair to say that Canon's customer service is not the best but their
technical support is excellent. You will of course have noted on purchase of
your printer, the terms of the warranty given with it.

Your machine is discontinued and no longer up to date. In your position I
would have thought you would have been pleased with the amount of service it
had given you, 'laid it to rest' and moved on.

Canon are not 'a dishonest company' and you need to be careful what you say
in a forum, as what you say is still subject to slander and libel laws.

Please note I am not nor have I ever been employed or acted on Canon's
behalf.

Stick
 
G

GP

Stick said:
For various reason including; build quality, reliability, print quality and
cost effectiveness, we have reduced the stock range to Canon only.

At least a Canon salesman that's being honest!

Maybe people should check their Yellow Pages to check what's happening in
their town. Here, Canon has all but disappered.
It is fair to say that NO computer or peripheral is built to last forever.

Mine would still works very well if it wasn't for that little glitch and,
given the number of prints I make these days I see no reason why it shouldn't
work in 20 years from now.

Canon declared my printer dead 8 years ago and a 5 minute job "fixed" it until
now.
Technology is always on the move forward. The equipment you purchase is the
best at that time, it is also obsolete the day of purchase.

My printer still prints. It's slower that today's printers, but I couldn't
care less about that.
We are always
playing 'catch up'. We have found that Canon printers give us fewest
problems

Maybe Canon's service is better in UK. A salesman confirmed that Canon Canada
service was rotten, that they don't collaborate.

Those people have spent hours on the phone pretending to know nothing just not
to tell me: «The purge unit is what the printing head rests upon and the
sponge you're looking for is in a little hole at the bottom.»
and are certainly the most cost effective to run, with new
cartridges from nd refills from
It seems to me that you are complaining for the sake of it.

It seems to me you're trolling for Canon and volontarily ignoring that the age
of my printer is completely irrelevant to the problems I have and had. Thanks
to your intervention, I'll soon write a shorter text concentrating on Canon's
bad will.

This time there will be no getting around.
To find the
purge or waste ink tank all you had to do was look into the printer when the
cover was open and with little looking you would have seen it.

Couldn't the purge unit have been... say this kind of little pump at the
bottom of the printer? To a printer repairman, no. To somebody who had never
opened a printer, yes.

AND WAS THAT ANY REASON FOR CANON NOT TO TELL WHERE IT WAS?
Your machine is discontinued

Completely irrelevant.
and no longer up to date.

Why? It's a printer and it prints.
Please note I am not nor have I ever been employed or acted on Canon's
behalf.

I know. You said you sell Canon products and "only" Canon products :)

GP
 
A

Anoni Moose

GP said:
You mean like absolutely refusing to tell me where that little sponge in the
purge unit was, dumbbell?

Didn't you tell us that someone from Canon did eventually tell you?
I'm
even a bit surprised they knew because at that point the people
working the support phones probably weren't trained on that
printer (no longer supported) and don't know. Support can't
be forever on products unless they charge a whole lot more
than the pittance they charged you for that printer (I think it
was about the same time when I bought an HP LJ-4 (a new model
at the time) for my home desktop B&W printer, it was
about $1400 U.S.D.).

Mike

P.S. - To be constructive, I find it useful when I call a mfgr's
support number for help, that if I don't get the help I need,
calling back again (getting a different person) can help
tremendously. This usually works. Depends if I get the person
they hired last month or the person that's been there for ten
years.
 
R

Ron Cohen

That printer may have cost $550 (actually $950) when it was first introduced
over 15 years ago, but what would is it worth on today's market? Even if it
was working as you demand, the value would still be zero. Printer model
after printer model has been introduced, sold, obsoleted and replaced by
ever newer models. This cycle has gone on yearly since PC's were first
introduced to the mass market. Remember what a 64k PC Model1 with monochrome
crt, 80 cps dot matrix and two single side diskette drives would have cost
when it first came out? Answer: $6000.00 which in today's dollars that would
be more like $15,000. What is it worth today? Answer: Zero. Same goes for
old TV's, stereos, etc... If it's electronics, this cycle will remain. The
reality is that consumer electronics products are disposable (hopefully
recycled). Using your logic, we should be able to force any manufacturer to
provide lifetime technical and logistical support for any product they've
ever made. Like it or not there has to be a date certain for product support
to cease. The BJ-330 is long past that date. Unless you think the printer
will have collectors value as an antique, why are you even making an issue
of this. You can get a new printer with far more capabilities for less than
the cost of keeping this obsolete printer operational.
 
D

David Chien

and they sure as hell don't cost more than $5 to make in any 3rd
in...).

Canon (subject in this thread) cartridges I buy say "Made in Japan" on
them. I don't think Japan qualifies as '3rd world'.

Here, I was refering to the usual lot of ink cartridges, not just
Canon. Nevertheless, no reason at all why any cartridge that WOULD cost
<$5 to make in any 3rd world country cost $30+ even if made in a 1st
world country.
 
G

GP

Ron said:
That printer may have cost $550 (actually $950) when it was first introduced
over 15 years ago, but what would is it worth on today's market? Even if it
was working as you demand, the value would still be zero. Printer model
after printer model has been introduced, sold, obsoleted and replaced by
ever newer models. This cycle has gone on yearly since PC's were first
introduced to the mass market. Remember what a 64k PC Model1 with monochrome
crt, 80 cps dot matrix and two single side diskette drives would have cost
when it first came out? Answer: $6000.00 which in today's dollars that would
be more like $15,000. What is it worth today? Answer: Zero. Same goes for
old TV's, stereos, etc... If it's electronics, this cycle will remain. The
reality is that consumer electronics products are disposable (hopefully
recycled). Using your logic, we should be able to force any manufacturer to
provide lifetime technical and logistical support for any product they've
ever made. Like it or not there has to be a date certain for product support
to cease. The BJ-330 is long past that date. Unless you think the printer
will have collectors value as an antique, why are you even making an issue
of this. You can get a new printer with far more capabilities for less than
the cost of keeping this obsolete printer operational.

Irrelevant. Canon just refused to give a 5 second response.

GP
 
G

GP

Anoni said:
GP wrote:



in the



Didn't you tell us that someone from Canon did eventually tell you?

Yes. After putting me on hold for 2 months and after I explained the situation
here. Now it seems they're trying their damage control team insted.
I'm
even a bit surprised they knew because at that point the people
working the support phones probably weren't trained on that
printer (no longer supported) and don't know.

Some people knew. That's why I got a fast answer after posting here.
P.S. - To be constructive, I find it useful when I call a mfgr's
support number for help, that if I don't get the help I need,
calling back again (getting a different person) can help
tremendously. This usually works. Depends if I get the person
they hired last month or the person that's been there for ten
years.

I've tried that. From my experience with the sponge, I know Canon is carefully
watching this newsgroup. That's the best call you can make, the only one they
understand.

Rest assured Canon knows very well who amongst their personnel knows the
answer to my problem and if I can't get to them, it's because they don't want
me to.

The address I provide here at altern.org might not be the most reliable but,
as I already explained, they've got my phone number. The only problem is their
downright rotten attitude. You've got to beat the answer out of them. But
tomorrow may be too late and they'll have me at their heels for years.

Most people "get over it". They'll throw away a perfectly functional printer
because of a glitch and very likely buy the same brand again. Not me. Canon
ought to know that by now.

Their trolls won't change anything to the matter.

GP
 
R

Ron Cohen

I've tried that. From my experience with the sponge, I know Canon is
carefully watching this newsgroup. That's the best call you can make, the
only one they understand.

Rest assured Canon knows very well who amongst their personnel knows the
answer to my problem and if I can't get to them, it's because they don't
want me to.

Canon employees many thousands of workers. I'll bet right now the CEO and
everyone on down is doing nothing but scanning this newsgroup just to find
more ways to infuriate good ole GP. It must be some evil corporate policy
since a major corporation like Canon has nothing better to do than make sure
someone with a 15 year old printer isn't going to get free service. Why I
bet they go so far as to even put remote transmitters in his head and send
secret agents to monitor his every move. After all, they gotta make sure
that obsolete printer isn't going to be coming back to life. Best way for
ole GP to get back at Canon is to get a really good heavy duty tinfoil hat
and take his medication. That'll show them whose boss around here.

p.s. If you do a google search on BJ-330 one of the first hits to come up
explains where the purge unit is.
 
G

GP

David said:
Here, I was refering to the usual lot of ink cartridges, not just
Canon. Nevertheless, no reason at all why any cartridge that WOULD cost
<$5 to make in any 3rd world country cost $30+ even if made in a 1st
world country.

$5 to produce an ink cartridge in Japan? You've got to be joking, body! 50¢,
maybe, not 5$. So what's going on? Is there a conspirary? Have all printer
companies established a cartel?

This is not necessary. The Stock Exchange regulates the money market
throughout the world. And in the beginning of this maelstrom of pure folly was
Microsoft.

Microsoft got into the business of offering a very useful product that cost
next to nothing to produce. If you design a car, then you have to build an
assembly line to produce the car. Otherwise, you can't sell the car you've
designed. But after its product is designed, Microsoft has nothing to produce
except a CD or it may offer it on a server. Bits are transfered. That's it!

That's how Bill Gates became the richest man in the world and many of his
associates multibillionnaires in about 20 years. Of course, his business would
still be better if it wasn't for Linux. He could charge Dell the full 150$
(US) for XP, just as to anybody. But he and his investors are hoping this is
only a temporary situation.

So, all companies in the world... and their investors, of course, thought that
was a nice way of making business. They get the primary goods in third world
countries for next to nothing and charge the customers the highest possible price.

If some smaller companies can get ink powder at a "fair"(1) price, they may
undercut their price. So they devise all kind of artifices to trick them out.
That's the name of the game.

(1) The quotes, of course, are because every company plays the same game.

But, in this scheme, money has been diverted from its original purpose of
facilitating exchanges. Some people get all the money for providing next to
nothing and some people have needs that can't be met because they don't have
the money.

And, of course, I'm not only talking about Third World countries, but also
about what you refer to as First World countries, where the gap between rich
and poor increases at a tremendous speed.

Go to the steelwork cities of the Great Lakes, you'll understand what I mean.
Politians and economists' discourse now seem completely vacuous, it just
doesn't grasp reality anymore.

Now that Microsoft has escaped the antitrust suits, that the company managers
behave more like money managers, not seeing much farther away that the next
quarter bottom line, escaping this unreal reality will become more difficult.

Not that nothing can be done. You could, most importantly. switch from Windows
to Linux, try to get your ink for third parties, refuse to be told that you
must throw away a good quality printer for a brand new crappy one because the
company refuses to give you the information on some glitch it has introduced, etc.

And before you buy anything, wonder if you really need it. Take back your
/time/ to yourself.

GP
 
G

GP

Ron said:
p.s. If you do a google search on BJ-330 one of the first hits to come up
explains where the purge unit is.

Maybe. But, dummy, Google didn't even exist in 1996 when I faced this problem.

Maybe a tin hat would do you good.

GP
 
R

Ron Cohen

Google didn't exist in 1996, but other search facilities did. Even in 1996
the BJ-330 was an old printer. I read your original posting once more to see
if you actually had any valid points to make. Other than proving Canon is a
company that makes reliable printers - you've had that old printer for many
years - you didn't say anything that indicated you had a clue about product
longevity or reality. In the OP you demand a full refund of ALL your money
and that you'll make sure Canon looses millions. Why don't you simply take
Canon to court and have them pay up. Surely the Canadian justice system will
agree with you that a 15 year old printer is barely broken in and that you
should get a full refund of the original purchase cost - they might even
adjust for inflation. If that doesn't work, I'm more than willing to put an
end to your dilemma and pay you the current value of the printer which is
zero. Please send it to me prepaid.
 
A

Arthur Entlich

Well, first of all, I guess it wasn't a "vacuum cleaner" anymore, was
it, if it "didn't do suction". But more to the point, if he had
actually come up with a product like a vacuum cleaner that didn't clog
and still cleaned as well or better, I'd say he might have developed an
improvement. Especially if it was quieter, was better built, was less
costly to make and run, used less raw materials, etc.

By the way, the vacuum cleaner I use, is older than I am by about 3
years, and I'm more than half a century old. I'd like to see anyone buy
a new vacuum cleaner today that will be working 50 years from now.
(then again, 50 years from now, at the current rate or climate change,
we won't be worrying about vacuuming, will we)...

Oh, did I mention it has the original motor, bag, and other than a
couple of cleanings and lubrication, and the occasional belt replacement
(cost about $1) it has never needed any repair in the 30 years I owned
it (bought it at Goodwill 30 years ago for about $15 CAN)

Art
 
A

Alan

Ron Cohen wrote:
That printer may have cost $550 (actually $950) when it was first introduced ...

Irrelevant. Canon just refused to give a 5 second response.
GP

It would be a 5-second response assuming they had the information to
hand. Since it's unsupported, and has been for a decade or so, very
likely they don't have anything online, and the frontline staff surely
don't have any idea of what the machine is, let alone how to fix it. A
few companies do actually keep antique manuals online, but you can't
demand they do.

Anyway, I can only join the chorus: It's a 15-year old monochrome
inkjet. You can upgrade to an old laser for about the cost of an ink
refill.
If you want something with superior performance, and of a similar
vintage, I run a HP LaserJet 4M. Original retail, $1800. I got it for
$50 a few months ago. Take advantage of the devaluation of old
hardware rather than bitching about it.
 
G

GP

Alan said:
It would be a 5-second response assuming they had the information to
hand. Since it's unsupported, and has been for a decade or so

That was in 1996. The printer was first manufactured in 1993, Mr Rock from
Canon told me. He apparently had 3 different sources. I'm surprised. My best
estimation would be 1990.

Whatever the case may be, it wasn't a decade old. Canon is just full of shit.

GP
 
A

Anoni Moose

David Chien wrote:
in...).

Canon (subject in this thread) cartridges I buy say "Made in Japan" on
them. I don't think Japan qualifies as '3rd world'.

By the way, there's an article in my local newspaper about the
local Epson plant (in Oregon) that now has about 600 people. They
used to make printers there, but that was moved off-shore. They
now make *ink cartridges*. Don't know what percentage of
Epson cartridges are made there, but a 600 person plant seems good
sized. Also, the article says that their production is five or six
times HIGHER per-person than a "sister" plant in China.

Just something interesting and vaguely related.

Mike

P.S. - Of course, from the point of view of someone at company HQ in
Japan,
our (Oregon, USA) Epson plant is an 'off shore' plant... :)
 

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