Cannot Connect Windows XP to Itself with RDP Client

[Will]

When using the RDP client in Windows XP SP2, connecting to the machine you
already are logged into appears to fail with a message that there is already
a console session and you cannot open a second console window. Is there
any way to work around this?

With Windows 2000, it is an extremely useful thing to be able to login to
the same machine from your console login. I typically login as a simply
"user" with minimal permissions and then open up a second console window
through Terminal Services and login as administrator. If I have some
administrative chore on the system it is extremely convenient to be able to
switch over to the other console session and do the work as administrator.
I can't believe they would take a step backwards and forbid that practice in
Windows XP?

I'm aware of the Run As feature, but it is extremely cumbersome to have to
type a long password on each command.

By the way, does Microsoft have a newsgroup dedicated to discussion of RDP
issues and terminal services? I saw such groups for WindowsNT only.

 

[Richard G. Harper]

Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003 allow up to three sessions at
once for remote and local access. Windows XP, not being a server operating
system, allows only one.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] (e-mail address removed)
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to.
* My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

[Will]

That's fine, I only need one. I have no other RDP session to the Windows
XP. I'm simply trying to connect from the Windows XP box to itself using
RDP. They can't be counting the current login to the console as an
instance of an RDP session?!

How do I get the terminal services management applications open to see what
RDP sessions Windows XP thinks are there?

--
Will

Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003 allow up to three sessions at
once for remote and local access. Windows XP, not being a server operating
system, allows only one.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] (e-mail address removed)
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to.
* My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

[Shenan Stanley]

When using the RDP client in Windows XP SP2, connecting to the
machine you already are logged into appears to fail with a
message that there is already
a console session and you cannot open a second console window.
Is there any way to work around this?

With Windows 2000, it is an extremely useful thing to be able to
login to the same machine from your console login. I typically
login as a simply "user" with minimal permissions and then open
up a second console window through Terminal Services and login as
administrator. If I have some administrative chore on the
system it is extremely convenient to be able to
switch over to the other console session and do the work as
administrator. I can't believe they would take a step backwards
and forbid that practice in
Windows XP?

I'm aware of the Run As feature, but it is extremely cumbersome
to have to type a long password on each command.

By the way, does Microsoft have a newsgroup dedicated to
discussion of RDP issues and terminal services? I saw such
groups for WindowsNT only.

Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003 allow up to three
sessions at once for remote and local access. Windows XP, not
being a server operating system, allows only one.

That's fine, I only need one. I have no other RDP session to the
Windows XP. I'm simply trying to connect from the Windows XP box
to itself using RDP. They can't be counting the current login to
the console as an instance of an RDP session?!

How do I get the terminal services management applications open to
see what RDP sessions Windows XP thinks are there?

I believe you misunderstood.

First - when you say "Windows 2000" in your original post - you must have
meant "Windows 2000 Server" - correct?

Second - when Richard said that Windows 2000/2003 allows up to three
sessions at once - he meant "at once".. One local, two remote... That's your
possible combination.

Last - when Richard said Windows XP allows only one - he meant only one
session (period) - local or remote - not one of each.

Is there a way around that? Sure - you can look for the hack to allow
multiple terminal service connections to Windows XP that requires the
replacement of a dll from a beta version of Service Pack 2 out on the web -
but it is definitely not supported by Microsoft.

 

[Will]

Microsoft should allow one console and one remote for Windows XP,
specifically to support an administrator session concurrent with a user
session, which has many many possible applications, including remote
administration of the machine while it is in use, and application
installation by the user using a separate console session. Neither of those
things has anything to do with being a server or a workstation.

What is the DLL that needs to be replaced to fix this problem? I hate to be
using Beta code of course, but it renders the OS of much lower value to me
if I cannot administer things in a console environment while I am logged in
to the console as a simple user. It's a very bizarre thing Microsoft has
done here.

And yes, Windows 2000=Windows 2000 Server.

 

[Richard G. Harper]

Windows XP allows only ONE connection of any type, remote or console. As an
end-user operating system it is licensed for only one concurrent user.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] (e-mail address removed)
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to.
* My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

[Shenan Stanley]

When using the RDP client in Windows XP SP2, connecting to the
machine you already are logged into appears to fail with a
message that there is already
a console session and you cannot open a second console window.
Is there any way to work around this?

With Windows 2000, it is an extremely useful thing to be able to
login to the same machine from your console login. I typically
login as a simply "user" with minimal permissions and then open
up a second console window through Terminal Services and login as
administrator. If I have some administrative chore on the
system it is extremely convenient to be able to
switch over to the other console session and do the work as
administrator. I can't believe they would take a step backwards
and forbid that practice in
Windows XP?

I'm aware of the Run As feature, but it is extremely cumbersome
to have to type a long password on each command.

By the way, does Microsoft have a newsgroup dedicated to
discussion of RDP issues and terminal services? I saw such
groups for WindowsNT only.

Windows 2000 Server and Windows Server 2003 allow up to three
sessions at once for remote and local access. Windows XP, not
being a server operating system, allows only one.

That's fine, I only need one. I have no other RDP session to
the Windows XP. I'm simply trying to connect from the Windows XP
box to itself using RDP. They can't be counting the current
login to the console as an instance of an RDP session?!

How do I get the terminal services management applications open to
see what RDP sessions Windows XP thinks are there?

I believe you misunderstood.

First - when you say "Windows 2000" in your original post - you
must have meant "Windows 2000 Server" - correct?

Second - when Richard said that Windows 2000/2003 allows up to
three sessions at once - he meant "at once".. One local, two
remote... That's your possible combination.

Last - when Richard said Windows XP allows only one - he meant
only one session (period) - local or remote - not one of each.

Is there a way around that? Sure - you can look for the hack to
allow multiple terminal service connections to Windows XP that
requires the replacement of a dll from a beta version of Service
Pack 2 out on the web - but it is definitely not supported by Microsoft.

Microsoft should allow one console and one remote for Windows XP,
specifically to support an administrator session concurrent with a
user session, which has many many possible applications, including
remote administration of the machine while it is in use, and
application installation by the user using a separate console
session. Neither of those things has anything to do with being a
server or a workstation.

What is the DLL that needs to be replaced to fix this problem? I
hate to be using Beta code of course, but it renders the OS of much
lower value to me if I cannot administer things in a console
environment while I am logged in to the console as a simple user.
It's a very bizarre thing Microsoft has done here.

And yes, Windows 2000=Windows 2000 Server.

You should not expect a Server Operating system and a Workstation operating
System to have the same feature sets.

You first stated:

"I can't believe they would take a step backwards (from Windows 2000) and
forbid that practice in Windows XP?"

... but you left out that you meant "Windows 2000 Server".

Windows XP Professional (an upgrade from Windows 2000 Professional
workstation) allows Remote Desktop where Windows 2000 Professional
(workstation) does not even have that capability. Only the server version
of Windows 2000 had Terminal Services. You were comparing Apples and
Oranges in the first place. (Server vs. workstation OS.)

If you want the same functionality you had in your previous OS - stay within
the same family of products. If you ran a server OS before - you should
upgrade to its next level (Windows 2003) in order to maintain an
enhanced/improved feature set from that family of OSes (server) instead of
jumping down to the less-feature rich workstation family.

Having said that - I gave you all you needed to find the hacked DLL from the
beta version of SP2.. A Google search for Multiple Remote Desktop Sessions
in Windows XP should get you what you need to make it work in Windows XP
(albeit unsupported.) However - I think you are doing yourself a disservice
by not sticking with the family of products you locked yourself into
originally.

 

[Will]

You should not expect a Server Operating system and a Workstation operating
System to have the same feature sets.

Windows XP Professional (an upgrade from Windows 2000 Professional
workstation) allows Remote Desktop where Windows 2000 Professional
(workstation) does not even have that capability. Only the server version
of Windows 2000 had Terminal Services. You were comparing Apples and
Oranges in the first place. (Server vs. workstation OS.)

You are making generalizations. Those aren't useful in the context of a
discussion about specific features.

It's a legitimate requirement for a workstation product to have a secure
administration mode for that product. It's bad reasoning to say that they
should cripple the current workstation product because the former
workstation product was even more crippled.

Any workstation needs administration. And as any good UNIX administrator
can tell you, you should never login to a primary console session as
administrator. Using the the Windows Run As command while logged in as a
user helps, but it's often more useful to have a background administrative
session going at the same time that you are logged in as a user. Since
Microsoft pretends to care about security these days, they should learn
something from the competition in this case.

I'm not asking for terminal services as an application server on Windows XP.
That is something you should certainly only get in the server version of the
product. I'm asking for one miserable concurrent administrative login
session, and I'm asking Microsoft to do all of its users a favor and put
that requirement in for a future update of Windows XP. It's not something
we should have to be downloading hacked beta code to do (although I
appreciate your letting me know about that option).

 

[Shenan Stanley]

You are making generalizations. Those aren't useful in the
context of a discussion about specific features.

You said you used Windows 2000 Server before and it allowed multiple TS
sessions.

Windows 2000 Workstation never even had Terminal Services.

You stated, "I can't believe they would take a step backwards and forbid
that practice in Windows XP?".

Which would imply that Windows XP should have been - in your mind - an
UPGRADE to Windows 2000 server - when in fact it is not - it is a different
type of OS (server vs workstation.) This assumption was incorrect. Windows
XP was never meant to replace Windows 2000 Server - so expecting the
features of one type of OS (server) to be included in another type of OS
(workstation) is stretching things.

It's a legitimate requirement for a workstation product to have a
secure administration mode for that product. It's bad reasoning
to say that they should cripple the current workstation product
because the former workstation product was even more crippled.

I never said that - and it XP is an improved OS over Windows 2000 because
there is a remote desktop feature as well as remote assistance. It is not
crippled - it, in fact, gained features. I said that it was a bad
assumption to go from a server OS to a workstation OS and expect that all of
the features from one had magically been included in the other. =)

Aslo - there is a way to run administrative tasks as a non-admin user - just
because you think it is easier to use Remote Desktop doesn't mean RUNAS is
not equally as useful.

Any workstation needs administration. And as any good UNIX
administrator can tell you, you should never login to a primary
console session as administrator. Using the the Windows Run As
command while logged in as a user helps, but it's often more useful
to have a background administrative session going at the same time
that you are logged in as a user. Since Microsoft pretends to
care about security these days, they should learn something from
the competition in this case.

Well - personally I do believe it is more secure to have to use the RUNAS..

Think of it like this.. thousands of people use Windows XP Professional
everyday and do not know that Remote Desktop even exists - although it may
be turned on, hole poked through the software firewall, etc. *If* more than
one session was allowed without interfering with the primary session in any
way - that would be a big secuirty hole for those thousands (millions
likely) of uninitiated computer users - since it is just another backdoor
that an uncaring public would leave wide open. Not saying that it would be
easily exploited - but it could be - like any other trojan backdoor device -
and one built into the OS! yay!

No - I feel RUNAS - as inconvenient as it might seem - is just as useful if
you take the time to learn to use it and setup your shortcuts to the
necessary functionality you need beforehand. Then you can run as a USER but
easily access the necessary admin functions you need with a double-click on
one of your shortcuts.

I'm not asking for terminal services as an application server on
Windows XP. That is something you should certainly only get in the
server version of the product. I'm asking for one miserable
concurrent administrative login session, and I'm asking Microsoft
to do all of its users a favor and put that requirement in for a
future update of Windows XP. It's not something we should have to
be downloading hacked beta code to do (although I appreciate your
letting me know about that option).

And it might be available in Vista - who knows? It was almost amade
available in SP2 - but was not. My guess was for security reasons - but it
could be greed or anything else for that matter.

 

[Will]

You stated, "I can't believe they would take a step backwards and forbid
that practice in Windows XP?".

Which would imply that Windows XP should have been - in your mind - an
UPGRADE to Windows 2000 server - when in fact it is not - it is a different
type of OS (server vs workstation.) This assumption was incorrect. Windows
XP was never meant to replace Windows 2000 Server - so expecting the
features of one type of OS (server) to be included in another type of OS
(workstation) is stretching things.

I understand the history, and yes I made a mistake in saying something that
implied Windows XP was a descendent of Windows 2000 Server. Having said
that, it's no longer relevant to this thread. The only thing that is
relevant is should Windows XP have the ability to have a concurrent user
logon and one additional RDP administrator logon concurrently.

As an option that you could turn on manually when you need to use it, it
would certainly have a good use. Run As also has its place.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I understand the history, and yes I made a mistake in saying
something that implied Windows XP was a descendent of Windows 2000
Server. Having said that, it's no longer relevant to this thread.
The only thing that is relevant is should Windows XP have the
ability to have a concurrent user logon and one additional RDP
administrator logon concurrently.

As an option that you could turn on manually when you need to use
it, it would certainly have a good use. Run As also has its place.

Would it be useful to be able to log concurrently into Windows XP?

Yes. Very much so - in reference to corporate users and fixing things in
the background of their machine(s) or doing unique software installs
(without bothering the user) when a push situations wouldn't work (albeit
seldomly needed - but sometimes just faster in the short run.)


Could it have a use in the way you describe it? Not remotely logging into a
system, but in fact a concurrent logon to your own PC for administrative
purposes?

- As a software developer - I could see this being very useful. But "Switch
User" would work as well and is already part of the system. However, it
could be that the software developer is in a larger environment (domain) and
thus this option is not available - so again a viable option for testing and
tweaking.
- As a stand-alone user - I doubt this 'feature' would get used much - since
switch user is already available in all versions of XP not joined to a
domain.
- As a system administrator (large or small) - I could see the use remotely,
but as for one's own system - I still have trouble seeing the usefulness -
but arguments for and against can go both ways for this group - depending on
style of administration (GUI or command-line oriented.)

So if I was going to vote one way or another - perhaps a feature available
in the Professional editions but not the home (which is easily implemented
at this point, since Home does not have Remote Desktop anyway) and/or one
only available *if* "Fast User Switching" was turned off - such as would
occur in a domain environment.

Although the way I put it may seem restrictive - at least you know in that
way it would not be turned on "by accident" by "Joe Public" and thus a
possible source of future security issues. It also gives System
Administrators and software developers more options once in a domain
environment for managing their own and other systems.

 

[Will]

Although the way I put it may seem restrictive - at least you know in that
way it would not be turned on "by accident" by "Joe Public" and thus a
possible source of future security issues. It also gives System
Administrators and software developers more options once in a domain
environment for managing their own and other systems.

I pretty much agree with the idea of allowing switch user for low end users
to login as administrator concurrently with a user login. And I also agree
that for domain users having a real RDP session logged in concurrently as
admin would be a very desirable option.

 

[Will]

Just a quick followup on this thread. Your suggestion was to use the local
switch users functionality in Windows XP since you cannot use Remote Desktop
on the computer while logged in through the console. The problem I am
finding with this suggestion is that in order to enable fast user switching
you must leave the default Windows XP login screen visible. The problem
with that is security. The Windows 2003 / Windows 2000 style login
presents a dialog that can only be read by Windows itself, and cannot be
hooked by a third party application. Using the default Windows XP login, a
trojan you have downloaded could sniff your keystrokes, and thereby gain
access to your account password.

 

[Good News!]

: When using the RDP client in Windows XP SP2, connecting to the machine you
: already are logged into appears to fail with a message that there is
already
: a console session and you cannot open a second console window. Is there
: any way to work around this?


Are you insane?










--




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