Can you use PIGMENTED inks in a R200 by either refilling or continuous ink systems?

[Te]

I'm new the EPSON... I've been a looong time HP user. I recently got an
Epson R200 because I wanted to print onto DVDRs. I'm in the market for a
continuous ink system for my R200 now... and one of the questions I had was
can I use Pigmented inks in a CIS or by refilling the carts with Pigmented
inks?

As I understand it, pigmented inks give you better quality prints, truer
colors and are much longer lasting. Plus as I understand it, the R200 uses
DYE inks not Pigmented like the R800. The epson rep told me the heads in
the R800 and R200/R300 (et al) are all the same print head? So that sounds
to me like I can use pigmented inks... But I know the experts here will
chime in

THANKS IN ADVANCE.

 

[Bob Headrick]

As I understand it, pigmented inks give you better quality prints, truer
colors and are much longer lasting. Plus as I understand it, the R200 uses
DYE inks not Pigmented like the R800. The epson rep told me the heads in
the R800 and R200/R300 (et al) are all the same print head? So that sounds
to me like I can use pigmented inks... But I know the experts here will
chime in

I am not an expert on the Epson inks but generally there are different
servicing requirements for pigmented vs. dye based inks. I would expect some
potential issues with nozzle clogging if you use pigmented inks in a printer
whose firmware is designed for dye based inks.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

 

[Jon O'Brien]

A small point of order, if I may:

Dye-based inks: inks that contain only dyes.
Pigmented inks: dye-based inks that have some pigments added.
Pigment-based inks: inks that contain only pigments.

Epson inks are either dye-based or pigment-based. There are no Epson
pigmented inks.

Thank you for your indulgence.

Jon.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

One of the main features of piezo head design is how forgiving they are
with ink formulations.

Thermal heads require the ink boils at a certain temperature and
maintains a certain viscosity during the printing process.

Piezo technology is more forgiving because the ink is mechanically
propelled without heating, and the ink nozzles can be considerably
larger then the ink droplet, using the frequency the piezo element is
activated to determine how much ink is released.

Although I don't suggest trying to run ketchup and mustard through them,
as long as the ink is within certain tolerances and of a small enough
particle size, it may well work. Piezo heads are being used for
everything from dye sublimation inks, to solvent inks, to oil based
inks, to conductive inks, to plastics, to food dyes, etc, etc.

So, as to your question, yes, there are dozens of 3rd party ink
formulations that work with Epson printers. SOme work better than
others. Pigmented inks are more abrasive than dye inks, because
pigmented inks are made up of actual particles of colorant kept in
suspension in the carrier agent. Dyes are molecular and are literally
dissolved into the carrier. Over time, therefore, pigmented inks do
wear the heads more than dye inks. For the average piezo inkhead
printer, it is not too significant an issue.

Although I have not looked around, I suspect there are both pigmented
inks being should 3rd party for the R200, and CISs. My only concern is
the CIS is usually costly enough to make it worthwhile to consider if
buying a more robust printer may be worthwhile with a costly investment
of a CIS and bulk inks. It is not that the R200 will product poor
prints, because it doesn't, but it is designed as an economy printer,
and it's cost reflects that. Most people using a CIS print great sums
of prints in a short period and a printer with a higher duty cycle may
be more reliable.

Art

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Hi Bob,

You raise a reasonable issue, at least in theory.

I can't speak specifically for the R200, because I don't think it has
been out there long enough to make a qualified response, but, there are
a great number of Epson dye ink printers out in the world which people
have converted to pigmented inks, including the 860, 870, 880, the 1200
series (1200, 1270, 1280, 1290) as well as the 3000 and others and in
general, they are no more problematical in terms of general maintenance
than any Epson printer designed around pigmented inks.

In general, I would say pigmented ink formulations tend to be a little
more demanding of keeping up maintenance to avoid problems.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Someone made a point some time back of admonishing me for using the
terms dye-based and pigment based, stating, correctly, I suppose, that
the "base" of these inks is neither dye nor pigment, but that the
colorants are of one or the other. Their point being that the "base"
was water, glycol, alcohols, resins, etc.

Although you are correct that Epson OEM inks either use dye colorants or
pigment colorants, there are indeed hybrid or dye and pigment colorant
inks which are produced 3rd party, specifically designed for Epson
printers.

Art

 

[Jon O'Brien]

Someone made a point some time back of admonishing me for using the
terms dye-based and pigment based, stating, correctly, I suppose, that
the "base" of these inks is neither dye nor pigment, but that the
colorants are of one or the other. Their point being that the "base"
was water, glycol, alcohols, resins, etc.

Fair point. The word 'base' does have a specific meaning when talking
about inks which is at odds with the way I used it. You win the
hair-splitting award!

Although you are correct that Epson OEM inks either use dye colorants
or pigment colorants, there are indeed hybrid or dye and pigment
colorant inks which are produced 3rd party, specifically designed for
Epson printers.

I meant that in connection with the OP's: "Plus as I understand it, the
R200 uses DYE inks not Pigmented like the R800", which I took to refer to
the OEM inks. That's why I used the phrase 'Epson inks', rather than 'inks
for Epson printers'.

Jon.

 

[Jon O'Brien]

...any Epson printer designed around pigmented inks.

Oh, bad luck! You just forfeited that hair-splitting award.

Jon.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I meant that in connection with the OP's: "Plus as I understand it, the
R200 uses DYE inks not Pigmented like the R800", which I took to refer to
the OEM inks. That's why I used the phrase 'Epson inks', rather than 'inks
for Epson printers'.

Jon.

I was not suggesting you were incorrect in your statement, in fact,
quite the opposite, but I did want to make others aware than some
hybrids already do exist for the Epson printer line, as 3rd party products.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I have very few hairs left to split anyway, so you may claim the award
if you so desire ;-)

Art

 

[Jon O'Brien]

I was not suggesting you were incorrect in your statement, in fact,
quite the opposite, but I did want to make others aware than some
hybrids already do exist for the Epson printer line, as 3rd party
products.

Fairynuff.

Jon.

 

[Jon O'Brien]

I have very few hairs left to split anyway, so you may claim the award
if you so desire ;-)

I've got loads but would rather it doesn't split, so I guess we'll leave
it on the shelf.

Jon.

 

[Te]

Great information. Thanks.

Are the pigmented inks worth "upgrading" to from dye inks? in other words,
is it worth it?

 

[Jon O'Brien]

Are the pigmented inks worth "upgrading" to from dye inks?

No, as the dye component of the ink will fade/run in the same way as in a
pure dye ink. It's definitely worth considering pigment inks, though.

Jon.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Now, really, how can I answer that? It depends on what your needs are.

The principal advantage to pigment inks is they do not fade as rapidly
(they do fade, but usually take much longer) and they tend to be
waterproof even on plain paper. They are more dense (opaque) and they
cost more. They will tend to clog more easily.

Each pigment ink formula will have differing characteristics and fade
resistance, just like dye inks.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Oh Jon, stop confusing people unnecessarily because you have a thing
about wordsmithing.

Dye inks: use chemicals which dissolve the colorant into the base, color
is molecular in size

Pigment: particles are solid material and suspended in a base, in theory
could settle out over time, as they are not dissolved, particles are
orders of magnitude larger than the dyes

Pigmented: Usually a mixture of dye and pigment in a base. Sometimes
the dye saturates the pigment and dyes it as well.

Epson manufactures either dye or pigment inks. There are third party
inks that are "pigmented" for Epson printers. Most are not.

Pigmented inks can be very stable in terms of fading, and whether a dye
runs usually has a lot more to do with the mordants within the paper
than the ink itself. Most standard papers do not contain mordants.
Most inkjet papers (other than bond papers) do.

Art

 

[Jon O'Brien]

Oh Jon, stop confusing people unnecessarily because you have a thing
about wordsmithing.

The confusion already exists, I'm trying to prevent it causing any future
problems by removing it. If someone wants pigment inks but asks for
pigmented inks, they may not get what they want. If they ask for pigment
inks, they will get want they want.

Using terms which have an explicit meaning in a vague way is what confuses
people.

Jon.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Fair enough. You are correct that pigment ink and pigmented inks are
not interchangeable words. They do refer to differing types of ink
formulations. We should all be more careful when discussing inks to use
correct terminology.

So, is ketchup a dye, pigment or pigmented formulation? ;-)

Art

 

[Jon O'Brien]

So, is ketchup a dye, pigment or pigmented formulation? ;-)

My personal opinion is that it's a sugary abomination. Further than that,
I have no interest in its classification.

Jon.

 

[T_S]

The correct general terms are solvent base and aqueous base inks.

The common substitute terms are dye ink and pigment ink.

Solvent base inks use something other than water as the primary solvent.

Aqueous base inks use water as the primary solvent with a small amount of
some type alcohol (butyl, isopropyl, or ethyl) as a co-solvent.

The correct phrasing for describing the type of colorant is Dye colorant and
Pigment colorant.

HP, Lexmark, and Canon use a Carbon Pigment colorant in an aqueous base.

Pigment colorants are not soluble in water. They are suspended using static
charge
generated directly by the pigment or by a coating or encapsulating material
which
surround the pigment and maintains suspension.

Epson utilizes several formulations of black and color pigment colorants in
an aqueous base,
to create their line of Durabrite and UltraChrome Inks. UltraChrome and
Durabrite inks are
Pigment colorant in aqueous base with a encapsulating resin which smooths
the pigment surface
and lenses the colorant.

What is commonly referred to as Dye base in is actual a Dye colorant in an
aqueous base

There does exist ink sets that are either Pigment or Dye colorant in a
solvent base (usually a pure alcohol
solvent). Other substances such as tolune and xylene can also be used as a
solvent.

Dye colorants are typically found in either a crystalline form or liquid
concentrate. They may also
contain biocide additives to curtail the growth of bacteria, virii, fungi,
and algae.

Pigment colorant is usually ground from solid material or chemically formed
by mixture of
base components.

Hybrids - Inks contain both pigment and dye colorant are commonly found in
gray scale inks (commonly called "tone" inks).
A black pigment water soluble ink is tinctured with dye colorant to produce
various "tones" of black and gray. Hybridization
can be done with color pigments, but this is less common.

Pigment colorant inkjet inks work most efficiently in open chamber
cartridges (sponge-free).

Dye sublimation ink is a specialized pigment colorant in an aqueous
solution.

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