can we power devices with microwaves?

C

code_wrong

I am thinking about the way data travels through the air via electromagnetic
radiation .. as does light , gamma radiation etc etc, .. so why can't we
power devices without wires? .. we could use a rechargeable battery on the
device which charges itself up wirelessly from a transmitter in the corner
of the room plugged into an electric outlet socket ....

am I confusing things here? .. maybe I need a tutorial
please enlighten me ..
 
P

philo

code_wrong said:
I am thinking about the way data travels through the air via
electromagnetic
radiation .. as does light , gamma radiation etc etc, .. so why can't we
power devices without wires? .. we could use a rechargeable battery on the
device which charges itself up wirelessly from a transmitter in the corner
of the room plugged into an electric outlet socket ....

am I confusing things here? .. maybe I need a tutorial
please enlighten me ..

You need to see this

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/forces/isq.html

the power would be *extremely* diluted!
 
P

philo

aha ..interesting .. thought there might be a catch ..

how about if we channel it through a laser(s) ..
the laser can track the device ...
if the line of sight gets broken then another
laser can join the circuit.

That would work...at least in theory...
and it has been proposed before...
but there would still be a lot of energy lost.

High-voltage transmission lines have fairly small losses
 
E

Effty

Scientific American or Popular Science (I can't remember which) had an
article a few years ago detailing the work of a guy that built a small
remote controlled airplane which stayed aloft solely with power beamed
to it via microwaves. It's not the most effecient method of power
transmission, but it does work.

~e.
 
V

Vanguard

Effty said:


You don't think you would lose some fingers with a 1KW laser (as used in the
mentioned experiment)? Not to mention the military-grade Hummer with the
transmitter mounted on it towing the power generator behind on a trailer.
What happens when you want a practical use of the application beyond buzzing
a super lightweight test craft around the Hummer? All that effort only to
end up with an underpowered test craft that can only be used inside a
building where there are no wind gusts. I suppose they could up the power
with a bigger transmitter provided they didn't burn holes through the wings.

Well, for a lesser powered laser pointed somewhere in the vicinity of the
mouse or keyboard and attempting to track their movement (since widening the
beam to provide a "coverage area" would up the power output requirement), I
suppose it would come in handy to re-warm your cup of coffee amongst other
things. Why do you think IR isn't used for cordless mice anymore? Because
its range and angle was limited (i.e., it had to point at the receiver) and
for a mouse that moves around this causes problems. RF was used instead so
it was non-directional. By the time you pump up an RF transmitter so that a
receiver could derive power from it, you incur problems with the nearby
computer and other electronic equipment and perhaps it incurs a health risk.

Somehow a super inefficient energy transfer seems an exercise in science
rather than an economical solution when there are already rechargeable NiMH
batteries and recharging cradles (unless you are mousing in your sleep so
the mouse never gets put into the recharging cradle). You could load up a
rocket with lots of expensive propellant to hurl a payload across the lake,
but gasoline outboard is [still] more economical. Doable doesn't
necessarily equate to practical. By the time this experiment yields any
practical benefit, the mouse makers will probably have found a lighter
weight electrolytic paste that they can embed in the housing or distribute
inside the mouse with an inductance circuit that lets it recharge from a
cradle or just a flat plate which could even be inside the mouse pad so it
is always charging since there would be no problem with a corded mouse pad
because it is stationary; however, while the magnetic field within a cradle
is containable, a recharge plate inside a mouse pad with its magnetic field
would be hazardous to removable magnetic storage media unless somehow the
magnetic charging field would be small and and use switchable magnetic
matrix that followed the position of the mouse so the magnetic field was
only under the mouse wherever it was above the pad (and off if the mouse
were removed from the pad). If you are talking about pointers that you wave
around in the air then obviously a laser recharge system would never work -
but laying it in a cradle is obviously doable.

If your rechargeable batteries aren't lasting long enough to get you through
the day (so you can put the mouse in the rechargeable cradle during the
off-time) then the power available via RF or laser would not be sufficient
to match your power consumption in an even shorter interval of time. There
would still be batteries (or capacitors) inside the mouse to hold the charge
so you haven't eliminated weight. Charging the mouse when you are not using
it can be accomplished using much easier and existing proven methods, like
inductance in a recharging cradle (so no direct contact is needed but close
proximity is required). Ever wonder how those cordless toothbrushes work
that you simply rest in their cradle?

Rather than use technology to eliminate the cord, why not instead use a
mouse that doesn't have to be moved around (i.e., a trackball)? I don't
like touchsticks that use pressure to move the pointer, but a comfortably
sized mouse that fits under the palm that you simply press in whatever
direction and pressing harder would move faster which would give you a
stationary mouse, reduce wrist and finger fatigue, and a cord would be a
non-issue. With a stationary pointing device, you don't care if it is
corded. If you have a mouse pad with a wrist rest, just lay your palm atop
of that [gel] pad to push it around with your fingertips touching the flat
pad where would be buttons. That's comfortable and doesn't have you flexing
your wrist at all.

After having to move mice around for over a couple decades, and being lucky
that I haven't incurred damage (yet), I don't find them comfortable pointing
devices. No matter how you set acceleration, sensitivity, or the size of
the mouse pad, you still have to lift them up. My pinky is getting tired of
having to squeeze the mouse to pick it up and move over on the pad. The
physical damage they have caused many users is proof that they are harmful
pointing devices. After a day of constant mouse usage, my wrist and pinky
are tired only to go home and do more work there. I can use a trackball all
day with much less fatigue so when I can again afford a good one then it
will replace my mouse at home (but I'm stuck with a mouse at work). With a
stationary trackball, how to power it becomes unimportant because having a
cord to it is unimportant. Remember that you still have the cord for the
receiver for a cordless mouse so only a small part of the corded mess gets
cleaned up.
 
K

kony

I am thinking about the way data travels through the air via electromagnetic
radiation .. as does light , gamma radiation etc etc, .. so why can't we
power devices without wires? .. we could use a rechargeable battery on the
device which charges itself up wirelessly from a transmitter in the corner
of the room plugged into an electric outlet socket ....

am I confusing things here? .. maybe I need a tutorial
please enlighten me ..


Yes, you're confusing some theoretical application with the
reality of implementation at price-points that would make it
marketable.
 
C

CBFalconer

code_wrong said:
I am thinking about the way data travels through the air via
electromagnetic radiation .. as does light , gamma radiation etc
etc, .. so why can't we power devices without wires? .. we could
use a rechargeable battery on the device which charges itself up
wirelessly from a transmitter in the corner of the room plugged
into an electric outlet socket ....

There was the story about the ULF transmitter for submarine
communication somewhere in the Western USA. They couldn't
understand why they had a violent hole in the radiation pattern.
Then they found a farmer who had installed some long antennas and
was powering his milking machines from it.

--
"The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without
formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to
deny him the judgement of his peers, is in the highest degree
odious and is the foundation of all totalitarian government
whether Nazi or Communist." -- W. Churchill, Nov 21, 1943
 
O

old jon

kony said:
Yes, you're confusing some theoretical application with the
reality of implementation at price-points that would make it
marketable.
I know what you mean Kony. Too damned expensive <g>.
 
D

DaveW

You need a bit of education in the realm of the differences between
electromagnetic radiation versus
electricity.
 
R

Roby

code_wrong said:
I am thinking about the way data travels through the air via
electromagnetic radiation .. as does light , gamma radiation etc etc, ..
so why can't we power devices without wires? .. we could use a
rechargeable battery on the device which charges itself up wirelessly from
a transmitter in the corner of the room plugged into an electric outlet
socket ....

am I confusing things here? .. maybe I need a tutorial
please enlighten me ..

Nicola Tesla experimented with this in the 1890's. I think you would find
this article interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicola_Tesla

I recall reading a proposal to launch a geosynchronous satellite that wound
unfurl a huge array of solar panels and then beam the power as microwave to
a ground station on the Earth. The received power would be converted to
commercial electricity - pollution-free.

There are a LOT of problems doing this!!

Roby
 
C

code_wrong

Roby said:
Nicola Tesla experimented with this in the 1890's. I think you would find
this article interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicola_Tesla

I recall reading a proposal to launch a geosynchronous satellite that
wound
unfurl a huge array of solar panels and then beam the power as microwave
to
a ground station on the Earth. The received power would be converted to
commercial electricity - pollution-free.

There are a LOT of problems doing this!!
yes but what a nice solution ... ... costly though
 

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