Call for help and support of the claymania antivirus pages

I

idbeholda

Clay and Frederic Bonroy have been actively trying to do their best to
update and improve the claymania antivirus help and information
pages. They hit on the idea of asking for authors ... anyone who
can contribute appropriate articles. More info and a link to a
submissions form is here:

http://www.claymania.com/contributing.html

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

Looks like a pretty good resource page. I'm in the process of putting
together a security Ezine (currently, 1/10 of the way done and already
~120MB in size). After I get it done, I'll give you guys a link and
you can add ... whatever you want from it to your info pages.
 
L

Laura Fredericks

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'm in the process of putting together a security Ezine
(currently, 1/10 of the way done and already ~120MB in size).

(120mb???) Tracker, is that you? ;-)

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Version: PGP 8.1

iQA/AwUBQowWPaRseRzHUwOaEQI+TwCgmzqe6hwml6+t2XUqpmIRHPJUf64AniUy
hehbo5aqE/rKfeYTJZZub6aj
=87f8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
Laura Fredericks
PGP key ID - DH/DSS 2048/1024: 0xC753039A

alt.comp.virus photo gallery:
http://www.queenofcyberspace.com/acvgallery/

usenet flamewars:
http://www.queenofcyberspace.com/usenet/

Remove CLOTHES to reply.
 
D

David H. Lipman

From: "Chuck" <[email protected]>

| On Thu, 19 May 2005 04:30:14 GMT, Laura Fredericks
|
| Please don't invoke the name of the undead.

CandyMan, Candy Man, Candy Man

Ooooops !
 
S

Sammy

Looks like a pretty good resource page. I'm in the process of putting
together a security Ezine (currently, 1/10 of the way done and already
~120MB in size). After I get it done, I'll give you guys a link and
you can add ... whatever you want from it to your info pages.

Yes. just look at this wonderful advice when dealing with a virus on
windows 2000/XP:

5. When all else fails Reformat, Reinstall & Restore.
(Note: this option is a last resort and should only used when all
other recovery attempts have failed.)
-- So to remove a virus, I should lose my family photos, my mp3s and
god knows what else? Since when do you ever reformat! to kill a windows
aware virus?

(Jeff Setaro - January, 2003)

--- The other recovery attempts offered don't even mention NTFS aware
antivirus removal tools; such as trend micro's sysclean. This guy
recommends booting into repair mode or something and replacing affected
files.
# Use NTFSDOS Pro or ERD Commander from Winternals Software, to remove
and replace the infected files.

-- This isn't free software, and the demo doesn't allow writing back to
the disk; So much for removing or replacing anything unless your
willing to pay.

# Install the infected drive as slave in a clean system and then remove
and replace the infected files.
-- This is the only useful piece of information offered that has little
risk of hosing your data.

Use Kaspersky AntiVirus Personal for Windows to create a Linux based
rescue disk set that can/will mount NTFS volumes (NTFS volumes are
mounted "read only").
-- Read Only? Great, so it can tell me I'm infected, and won't do
anything about it. This is simply, NOT good advice. I see no mention of
using a Bart disk, sysclean nor any other windows aware antivirus
utility which wouldn't require reformatting! my computer.

I will send the site along to my IT associates and perhaps they can
come up with suggestions which are less likely to cause more harm then
the virus would. reformat... Sheesh.
 
F

Frederic Bonroy

Sammy a écrit :
Yes. just look at this wonderful advice when dealing with a virus on
windows 2000/XP:

For clarification, Sammy is referring to this page:
http://www.claymania.com/virus-ntfs.html
5. When all else fails Reformat, Reinstall & Restore.
(Note: this option is a last resort and should only used when all
other recovery attempts have failed.)
-- So to remove a virus, I should lose my family photos, my mp3s and
god knows what else? Since when do you ever reformat! to kill a windows
aware virus?

1. It says "when all else fails" and "this option is a last resort". I
believe this is clear.

2. You're supposed to back up your family photos, your MP3s and god
knows what else regularly in order to be able to restore them at any
time, in a case like this for example.
--- The other recovery attempts offered don't even mention NTFS aware
antivirus removal tools; such as trend micro's sysclean. This guy
recommends booting into repair mode or something and replacing affected
files.

Replacing infected files is the preferred method of dealing with
viruses. It's less comfortable but it's more secure.

Sysclean is NTFS-aware? Thank you for the hint, we will look into this.
# Use NTFSDOS Pro or ERD Commander from Winternals Software, to remove
and replace the infected files.

-- This isn't free software, and the demo doesn't allow writing back to
the disk; So much for removing or replacing anything unless your
willing to pay.

When you are in safe mode or using the recovery console, you shouldn't
need an extra NTFS driver since Windows is active (I have never tried it
though).
NTFSDOS (Pro) is necessary only when you are in plain DOS.
Use Kaspersky AntiVirus Personal for Windows to create a Linux based
rescue disk set that can/will mount NTFS volumes (NTFS volumes are
mounted "read only").
-- Read Only? Great, so it can tell me I'm infected, and won't do
anything about it.

Well, it's a good thing to know that you are infected and by what, no?

Booting clean is the preferred method of obtaining a good overview of
the state of the system. This helps circumvent stealth viruses.
I will send the site along to my IT associates and perhaps they can
come up with suggestions which are less likely to cause more harm then
the virus would. reformat... Sheesh.

We welcome any suggestions.
 
C

Chuck

Sammy a écrit :


For clarification, Sammy is referring to this page:
http://www.claymania.com/virus-ntfs.html


1. It says "when all else fails" and "this option is a last resort". I
believe this is clear.

2. You're supposed to back up your family photos, your MP3s and god
knows what else regularly in order to be able to restore them at any
time, in a case like this for example.

3. Keeping all your family photos, your MP3s and god knows what else on a
separate partition wouldn't hurt either. This minimises fragmentation of
operating system files when you have large pictures and MP3s. And it makes
backing up your family photos, your MP3s and god knows what else a lot easier.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not necessarily a bad thing - it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.
 
S

Sammy

Frederic said:
For clarification, Sammy is referring to this page:
http://www.claymania.com/virus-ntfs.html

Sorry that I did not point that out in my previous post.
1. It says "when all else fails" and "this option is a last resort". I
believe this is clear.

I don't think reformatting is ever a useful last resort.
2. You're supposed to back up your family photos, your MP3s and god
knows what else regularly in order to be able to restore them at any
time, in a case like this for example.

While true, it's not often the case. I do make backups routinely of my
things, I just took issue with some of your advice.
Replacing infected files is the preferred method of dealing with
viruses. It's less comfortable but it's more secure.

Preferred method due to various virus authors and antivirus authors
inability to write decent software. Either infecting or disinfecting.
Sysclean is NTFS-aware? Thank you for the hint, we will look into this.

Where have you been? Sysclean has been NTFS aware for sometime. You do
monitor this newsgroup right?
When you are in safe mode or using the recovery console, you shouldn't
need an extra NTFS driver since Windows is active (I have never tried it
though).
NTFSDOS (Pro) is necessary only when you are in plain DOS.

Recovery console is very difficult to run outside non microsoft based
software on. Your very limited in available commands while in recovery
console. Safe mode is an option, but even then depending on the
situation, another system or a bart disk would be the preferred option.
Well, it's a good thing to know that you are infected and by what, no?

Fair enough. But, it's even better to know I'm infected, and be able to
remove the infection. Without removing my files. Hence, Sysclean would
be the better choice in this case.
Booting clean is the preferred method of obtaining a good overview of
the state of the system. This helps circumvent stealth viruses.

As I've been told.
 
S

Sammy

Looks like a pretty good resource page. I'm in the process of putting
together a security Ezine (currently, 1/10 of the way done and already
~120MB in size). After I get it done, I'll give you guys a link and
you can add ... whatever you want from it to your info pages.

What sort of security background do you have?
 
S

Sammy

Le sob.
Le weep.
Le boo hoo.
Le cry.


I had asked earlier what your security background was; But I've had a
chance to to ask google to show me other posts made by you. Now that
I've read your conspiracy theory (lol!) about antivirus vendors
deleting definitions, I can't possibly take your advice seriously. Good
luck with your "security ezine".

you might wanna take a look sometime at vmyths; Especially the false
authority syndrome article; It's a very good read. :)
 
K

kurt wismer

Sammy said:
Frederic Bonroy wrote: [snip]
1. It says "when all else fails" and "this option is a last resort". I
believe this is clear.

I don't think reformatting is ever a useful last resort.

then your envisioned worst case scenarios probably aren't as bad as mine...

i very much do not like the idea of reformatting, but if enough
(software) damage has been done to the system there comes a point of
diminishing returns with regards to cleanup... there comes a point when
greater confidence can be had from rebuilding from scratch...
While true, it's not often the case. I do make backups routinely of my
things, I just took issue with some of your advice.

if you think you know better then the advice probably isn't for you
anyways... the point of the advice is not to cater to *your*
preferences, it's to give a clue to those in need of one... if you know
enough to have analyzed the option and found alternatives that suit your
needs better then you are not such a person...
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

Frederic Bonroy wrote:

I have to concur with criticism leveled at this page. It skips from
"how to remove known malware files" to "last resort, format" without
much coverage beyoind what the first resort may be. Aside from a
reference to feeware Kaspersky AV's Linux rescue CDR, there's nothing
on how you are to deduce what malware files should be replaced, or how
one is to manage any integration dependencies that may be involved.

Perhaps the message is: "If you are a non-guru on NTFS, you're ^%$d,
mate". That's important info for rabble-rousing purposes (some
Bastilles need to be stormed; where's a rabble when you need it?)

Right now, the best bet is to start with Bart's PE bootable CDR and
run detection tools from there, to build a list of what malware is
present. Then you read up that list and tackle according to caveats.

The hurdles are:
1) Creating a Bart's PE from a clean PC
2) Finding scanners that are Bart's-compatible
3) Finding scanners that are Bart's-compliant
4) Finding a way to keep these updated
5) Ensuring tools operate on the correct settings files

On (2) vs. (3); a tool that runs from a maintenance OS (mOS) such as
Bart's or a Linux CDR is compatible if it runs from it, but needs to
be able to do everything it is supposed to do before you can call it
compliant. For example, a scanner that reads and fixes the Bart's
registry, rather than that on the HD, is not compliant.

Trend SysClean may be non-compliant in another way. When run from HD
boot, it launches a series of console (DOS-looking) windows that scan
for various malware. It does not do this when run from a Bart's boot,
even if SysClean itself is on the HD when it is run. What's missed?

So I backstop SysClean with Stinger, and similar catches-a-few
scanners from Avast, AVG etc.

On (4), you can use a CDRW if your PC will boot this, or you can store
updates on a write-protected USB stick. Bart's won't tolerate CD
swapping (the OS CDR must always be present) and it won't detect
changes of USB stick on the fly, but it will detect and use a USB
stick that is present when Bart's boots up.

On (5), there's a Bart's plug-in that switches registry references
from Bart's to HD after X seconds. The idea is; you run this to shell
your tool, your tool inits itself with reference to the Bart's
registry, and then waits for you to initiate something. While it is
waiting, the shell tool kicks in so that all further registry access
will be to the HD installation you selected. Then you use the tool
you shelled, and it operates on the HD installation as you wished.

That comes back to (1), i.e. the challenge of building a working
bootable mOS and tool set out of all these useful but loose bits.


You do mention hosted scanning, i.e. dropping the HD into a clean
system and scanning it from there. That's like a mOS with full native
tool support, but it's also a mOS that is not write-protected and is
thus potentially infectable. You still have the problem of directing
tools to scan and fix the correct HD's settings files, too.

Thank you for not wasting time with potentially-doomed informal
strategies, such as Windows-basesd av or online scanners. If we were
not so desperate, we wouldn't give these a second glance.


------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -
Can't stop what's coming
Can't stop what's on it's way (Tori Amos)
 
I

idbeholda

Sammy said:
I had asked earlier what your security background was; But I've had a
chance to to ask google to show me other posts made by you. Now that
I've read your conspiracy theory (lol!) about antivirus vendors
deleting definitions, I can't possibly take your advice seriously. Good
luck with your "security ezine".

you might wanna take a look sometime at vmyths; Especially the false
authority syndrome article; It's a very good read. :)

I'll give you a congrats on reading a google post... but that's about
it.

http://www.temple-of-transgression.tk

As for the definition deletions, regardless of whether or not they are
hoaxes, the point was to prove they delete them, regardless, which the
previous articles in which this was mentioned was obviously not taken
into consideration. And with that in mind, who's to say they don't
delete other definitions that aren't hoaxes. It can't be proven one
way or the other, but the possibility still exists.

And btw, the ezine is now almost 1GB in size (compressed, about 900).
The problem is finding anyone who will host it.
 
L

Laura Fredericks

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

...the ezine is now almost 1GB in size...

I don't even think a digitized version of the Sunday edition of
The New York Times would be 1GB in size!

What could possibly make an e-zine so large??? Are the pages
all tif graphics, or sumthin?

Comon, admit it... You're Tracker! And the pages are not only
your <snicker> firewall logs, but bmp graphics of the artwork
from your bf Beef's "friends" in prison, lol!

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Version: PGP 8.1

iQA/AwUBQp0HraRseRzHUwOaEQJDLACeIkUdKFMJE1INyxcXDwaDIB8xraYAnREX
d+P9/ex1O6kglhNvkWOKqhLu
=sSVA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
Laura Fredericks
PGP key ID - DH/DSS 2048/1024: 0xC753039A

alt.comp.virus photo gallery:
http://www.queenofcyberspace.com/acvgallery/

usenet flamewars:
http://www.queenofcyberspace.com/usenet/

Remove CLOTHES to reply.
 
K

kurt wismer

cquirke said:
I have to concur with criticism leveled at this page. It skips from

what's the subject/title of this thread?

the thought occurs that if folks think they can do better then maybe
they should actually do so...
 
S

Sammy

I'll give you a congrats on reading a google post... but that's about
it.

http://www.temple-of-transgression.tk

Interesting website. I downloaded one program of yours due to the fact
you had included the source code. I'm not a programmer on a
professional or even rudementary level, However; I am able to write
somewhat coherentially? in visual basic. Are all of your programs VB
apps?
As for the definition deletions, regardless of whether or not they are
hoaxes, the point was to prove they delete them, regardless, which the
previous articles in which this was mentioned was obviously not taken
into consideration. And with that in mind, who's to say they don't
delete other definitions that aren't hoaxes. It can't be proven one
way or the other, but the possibility still exists.


I discussed this via email the other day with an associate of mine. He
doesn't see what your big issue is concerning this. As a programmer (he
is, not me) he thinks it's quiet normal to remove
old/outdated/worthless scan strings and other sources of
identification. He's working on a spyware scanning utility (argh;
spyware, but thats another topic) and he feels he will eventually be
deleting definitions as he improves the database. It might not be
necessary to contain 2 scan strings for the same piece of spyware for
example.
And btw, the ezine is now almost 1GB in size (compressed, about 900).
The problem is finding anyone who will host it.

Raid told me once that VX ezines were getting kinda big, several years
ago one was 20 megs or so. lol. What in the world does yours have to
make it so big?
 

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