Bible ? Quran ? Torah ?

A

Al Klein

It would help if you knew what you were talking about. The Old
Testament is very much a translation - from the original Hebrew.
Click to expand...

The OT, in the original Hebrew, is a translation from the original
Hebrew? It would help if you spoke some HUMAN language.
 
P

*ProteanThread*

Well, I'll let you discuss the finer points of theology with him; Its
way out of my league.
 
C

Craig

*ProteanThread* said:
Well, I'll let you discuss the finer points of theology with him; Its
way out of my league.
Click to expand...
Me? Nah. I was just in it for the language. Had a friend go
born-again several years ago and he enlightened me as to the finer
points of Aramaic vs Hebraic writings.

The only thing I recall though is that it took a lot of beer to keep me
in my seat...

-Craig
 
J

John Hood

Al said:
The OT, in the original Hebrew, is a translation from the original
Hebrew? It would help if you spoke some HUMAN language
Click to expand...
I will as soon as you go look up what you're actually talking about.
What we in modern times call the "Old Testament", is a translation from
the Hebrew. Why: What it was called when it was written and collected-
was "Tanakh," a Hebrew acronym for "Torah, Nevi'im and Ketuvim" meaning
"The law, the prophets, the writings." It was not "the Old Testament"
until Christians got a hold of it and (*gasp!*) translated it, into
Coptic, Latin, Greek - and several attempts at English leading up to the
KJV.

<<The Old Testament *IS* the Torah

(Rolls eyes) Ding! Wrong! Go to the blackboard and write 100 times "I WILL pay attention in Bible Study" - the OT is most definitely NOT Torah, Torah is the first five books of the OT. The OT is translated from Tanakh - The (Mosaic) Law, the prophets and the wisdom literature..

John H.

www.jhoodsoft.org
 
J

John Hood

Craig said:
Me? Nah. I was just in it for the language. Had a friend go
born-again several years ago and he enlightened me as to the finer
points of Aramaic vs Hebraic writings.

The only thing I recall though is that it took a lot of beer to keep
me in my seat...

-Craig
Click to expand...

Aw! Come on! Some people regard that kind of discussion as fun! :)
(Although the beer wouldn't hurt!)

John H.
 
J

John Hood

*ProteanThread* said:
Well, I'll let you discuss the finer points of theology with him; Its
way out of my league.
Click to expand...
PT - The theological discussion aside - eSword is really good. FWIW -
Grab it and all the resources you can from the site burn them onto CD -

John H.
 
A

Al Klein

I will as soon as you go look up what you're actually talking about.
What we in modern times call the "Old Testament", is a translation from
the Hebrew.
Click to expand...

What *WE* call the Old Testament - in Hebrew - isn't a translation
from anything.
Why: What it was called when it was written and collected-
was "Tanakh," a Hebrew acronym for "Torah, Nevi'im and Ketuvim" meaning
"The law, the prophets, the writings." It was not "the Old Testament"
until Christians got a hold of it and (*gasp!*) translated it, into
Coptic, Latin, Greek - and several attempts at English leading up to the
KJV.
Click to expand...

Which has nothing to do with the fact that the Hebrew bible isn't a
translation from Hebrew, it *IS* Hebrew. If you insist on reading an
English mistranslation, that's you, that's not the bible.
 
J

John Hood

Al said:
What *WE* call the Old Testament - in Hebrew - isn't a translation
from anything.




Which has nothing to do with the fact that the Hebrew bible isn't a
translation from Hebrew, it *IS* Hebrew. If you insist on reading an
English mistranslation, that's you, that's not the bible.
Click to expand...
Ok, fine whatever. That's not what you said originally, let's drop it.
Back to freeware eveyone.


John H.
 
V

Vrodok the Piglet lover

Once Upon A Time (on Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:07:56 -0400), in alt.comp.freeware, Al
by way of Message-id said:
What *WE* call the Old Testament - in Hebrew - isn't a translation
from anything.


Which has nothing to do with the fact that the Hebrew bible isn't a
translation from Hebrew, it *IS* Hebrew. If you insist on reading an
English mistranslation, that's you, that's not the bible.
Click to expand...

John appears to be confusing the Old and New Testaments. Darn if I know how.
--

Don't trust TinyURL links posted into Usenet?
If so, then go to "TinyURL Lookup", @
http://www.daveltd.com/bin/tinylookup.cgi

Web-browsing & Trojans got you down?
Firefox (<http://www.mozilla.com/>), along with
its' JButton v0.1 (<http://tinyurl.com/lw2y4> &
<http://tinyurl.com/nzg6t>) extension, will take
care of switching Javascript & Java in and out,
quite easily.
Another *extremely* good extension for
Firefox, to install is "NoScript"
(<http://tinyurl.com/qhdnd>,
<http://tinyurl.com/ne9kq>, &
<http://tinyurl.com/85k3z>).

Nervous about "Interesting times"? If so, then
browse <http://survivalblog.com/>


What a hobby for a grown Troll with my IQ...
 
D

Daniel Mandic

John said:
Ok, fine whatever. That's not what you said originally, let's drop
it. Back to freeware eveyone.


John H.
Click to expand...

'ol Topic gnasher. ;-)


Here in this thread is the most freeware at all. Take your stone and
write it down, or take the wedges and make a kruzifix... everything
free :)

Freeware is not freeware.
It's the same you would say gasoline is free. It's not, at least you'd
have to buy a car. Or not??


Even freeware is much more expensive than real freeware. (E.g. borrwing
the bible in a bibliothek). Not to mention the costs for electricity,
PC's and peripherals things (Mouse, Monitors, Harddisks, Floppies,
Internetaccount-costs, Mousepads, Keyboards, ....;---
The real bible you can read in various environments (park, nature,
wood, forest, at home), just for the cost of human-energy, respectively
what you need for living.
You see, also freeware needs at least the 'Meal', or you live in the
'Jungle' with a hi-tec sat-interbet.


So even ACF will always stay in a greyzone for me, as it depends mostly
(Linux, Windows) to hardware you cannot get for free. And the
following-costs. And, and, and.... (MS costs, Linux costs etc..)





Otherwíse, this thread gave out some Bibles, to find in the Internet.
And it is not okay for you discussing about, because it's not
technically, bug-report, feature-babbling and so...?




Best Regards,

Daniel Mandic
 
A

Al Klein

Once Upon A Time (on Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:07:56 -0400), in alt.comp.freeware, Al
Klein <[email protected]>, by way of Message-id
Click to expand...
John appears to be confusing the Old and New Testaments. Darn if I know how.
Click to expand...

I don't know. The NT was written in Greek, it's not translated from
Hebrew. The OT was written in Hebrew (the original was probably
written in a very old dialect, since it was written a long time ago).
Neither one, in the original, was *translated from* Hebrew. Modern
translations (and none of the translations of the NT are accurate)
were translated from Hebrew, in the case of the OT, or from Greek, in
the case of the NT, into whatever language one is reading at the
moment. But to say that the OT is a translation from Hebrew, or that
the NT is a translation from Greek, is to somehow trivialize the
originals.
 
G

Gary R. Schmidt

Al said:
I don't know. The NT was written in Greek, it's not translated from
Hebrew. The OT was written in Hebrew (the original was probably
written in a very old dialect, since it was written a long time ago).
Neither one, in the original, was *translated from* Hebrew. Modern
translations (and none of the translations of the NT are accurate)
were translated from Hebrew, in the case of the OT, or from Greek, in
the case of the NT, into whatever language one is reading at the
moment. But to say that the OT is a translation from Hebrew, or that
the NT is a translation from Greek, is to somehow trivialize the
originals.
Click to expand...

Well, strictly speaking the OT was a translation from the Greek, into
Latin (the Douai(sp?) Catlick bible), and then into newer languages.

None of the monks who did such work read Hebrew, Greek was about as far
outside Latin as they dared stray.

Okay, the above paragraph is _not_ strictly true for Coptic xtian monks,
but the point is still valid, until quite recently, _all_ xtian versions
of the OT were translated from Greek, _not_ Hebrew.

Cheers,
Gary B-)
 
T

Thorsten Duhn

Hello,
Quran Viewer:
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/Koran/QuranViewer.exe

Noble Quran:
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/Koran/noblequran.exe

Some books you can purchase:
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/books/books.html
Click to expand...

any opinions on this? The site itself is bizarre, <ot>and I
cannot agree this stupid stuff ("The Arabs/Muslims act like
Nazis because they are Nazis!"). We may discuss the comparison
of anyone using the term "fascist", but with a little bit
knowledge on history you'll see that Hitler/Nazi category
cannot fit here*.</ot> I don't wanna discuss this site, but
how can a site spreading such opinions be a usable source
for Quran?

Regards,
Thorsten
 
T

Thorsten Duhn

Hello,
is there an offline bible that a friend of mine can download
and install on his machine? he has no internet (i can burn
it on cd for him) and just got bit by the freeware bug.
Click to expand...

just was curious and found this:

Qur'an Viewer (Koran) 2.910
http://www.simtel.net/product.php[url_fb_product_page]73670
http://2muslims.com/directory/Detailed/223253.shtml

Translations plug in page
http://2muslims.com/directory/Detailed/226091.shtml

A bit strange usage and official homepage is defect. But best
I found and features many additional languages. Views can be
defined for langs to be shown abreast.

Regards,
Thorsten
 
C

Curt

Quran Viewer:
any opinions on this? The site itself is bizarre, <ot>and I
cannot agree this stupid stuff ("The Arabs/Muslims act like
Nazis because they are Nazis!"). We may discuss the comparison
of anyone using the term "fascist", but with a little bit
knowledge on history you'll see that Hitler/Nazi category
cannot fit here*.</ot>
Click to expand...

Actually, with a little knowledge of history, you'll see that it's
perfectly fair. I highly recommend the following book to you:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/05...lance&n=283155&tagActionCode=deprogrprogra-20

An interview with the author is here:
http://somebodyhelpme.info/nazimusl..._Connection_to_Islamic_Terrorism_04-04-06.mp3

Also, this book which is written by an ex-Muslim. It is an excellent
primer on Islam and the Quran:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...3080-3351224?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

NOTE: The author adopted a Christian name to replace his Muslim name
when he converted to Christianity. He "was born into a Muslim family in
Egypt and was able to quote the entire Quran by the age of twelve. His
entire childhood education was spent in Muslim schools, and he earned a
doctorate degree in Islamic history and culture from Al-Azhar
University, the school that is the source of spiritual authority for the
Islamic world."

If you check out the numerous articles, speeches and videos on this
site, you will clearly see the connection:
http://somebodyhelpme.info/nazimuslims/nazimuslims.html

In particular, check out the videos at these two locations:
http://somebodyhelpme.info/nazimuslims/nazimuslims.html#OBSESSION
http://somebodyhelpme.info/nazimuslims/nazimuslims.html#SADDAM_REICH

The site is also not saying that ALL Muslims/Arabs are Nazis - just that
there is a historical connection. For proof that the site is not
anti-Muslim/Arab, check out this page (which doesn't appear to be on the
home page since they started redesigning it - I will email them):
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/righteous/righteous.html
I don't wanna discuss this site, but
how can a site spreading such opinions be a usable source
for Quran?
Click to expand...

The two sources from the Quran on that site are unmodified and come
directly from Islamic sources. You can Google for them to find the
original sources.
 
J

John Fitzsimons

I don't know. The NT was written in Greek, it's not translated from
Hebrew. The OT was written in Hebrew (the original was probably
written in a very old dialect, since it was written a long time ago).
Neither one, in the original, was *translated from* Hebrew. Modern
translations (and none of the translations of the NT are accurate)
were translated from Hebrew, in the case of the OT, or from Greek, in
the case of the NT, into whatever language one is reading at the
moment. But to say that the OT is a translation from Hebrew, or that
the NT is a translation from Greek, is to somehow trivialize the
originals.
Click to expand...

The "originals" are simply a mixture of stories. Some of which are
probably true and some of which aren't. Added to that there are many
that are probably exaggerations/distortions. Story tellers/historians
have always added bits, subtracted bits, misrepresented events in
what they write.

Of course there are always the more gullible among us who choose
to ignore this.

Also, just because someone writes in Hebrew it doesn't follow that
what they write is the truth.
 

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