beta2 XHTML compliance? is this necessary. OR STUPID...read UP MICROSOFT

[Brian Henry]

yes it works cross platform, Opera, Firefox and IE all work correctly.. and
as for the size of the application its a huge insurance processing
application, if you ever worked in the insurance field you'd know how
utterly complex it is to set up accounts, commissions, coverages,
enrollments, mantain all of that and also process claims, billing, and all
the reports required behind that. What am I doing here? it's called the
never ending learning process... you want to do something else, you ask to
see if there is a better way sometimes and that helps with a community of
people who have been there and done that.

 

[Brian Henry]

how is coming here to talk to Microsoft? there are no MS employees here that
monitor this place, its only MVP's... besides that the only "MSFT" tags you
will see is MSDN monitors for managed support tickets that MSDN subscribers
created on here... they don't even see the posts that people who don't
subscribe to MSDN.

If you want to talk to microsoft email their wish email address.. this is
not the place for that.

 

[Brian Henry]

name the browsers already that "Arnt" complient with XHTML1.0 you keep
blabbing about them but never backed it up with facts or names or
examples... so start giving them or be quiet, because a lot of us here have
many years of experience with all this and know what does and doesn't work.

 

[Brian Henry]

the following browsers are XHTML 1.0 complient

* Amaya
* Mozilla
* FireFox 1.0
* Internet Explorer 5.0
* Internet Explorer 6.0
* Safari
* Opera

so please... once again... tell me what browsers you are talking about that
arn't complient that using XHTML1.0 code will "break" compatability?

 

[Brian Henry]

if you don't believe me then look at the compatability listing

http://www.xmlsoftware.com/browsers.html

 

[rhat]

In the REAL WORLD, 90% is NOT good enough...just like 99% is NOT GOOD ENOUGH
for server UP TIME

There are always going to be exceptions and if we can support them all NOW
and we can, WE SHOULD NOT BREAK what's not broken.

HTML is a TRUE STANDARD......XHTML is a NOT FULLY ADOPTED STANDARD.

When you can actually write a web app in the REAL world, let me know. NO MVP
who has that much time on their hands should be telling me or anyone else in
the real world what to do until they can actually do it iin a real world
environment with customers themselves first.

TO ALL MVPs:

GET A REAL JOB where you don't spend all day in the newsgroups answering
questions for free and with no accountability if your decisions are wrong
and/or code doesn't even work.
(BTW a lot of you, actually 100% of you, are BOOK SMART intellectuals but
couldn't code a web app or any app if your life depended on it. And why is
this? Well it's because you're too arrogant to admit your mistakes and
therefore you learn nothing and make the same mistakes over and over again.
And that's why you are still here in the newsgroups posting away as opposed
to programming away.)

 

[rhat]

How about the other way around FIRST? If you want to XHTML complaint, then
you the developer should have to go around the default to do it. Why,
because XHTML already is known to break web apps. HTML is KNOWN TO ACTUALLY
WORK. BIG DIFFERENCE

 

[rhat]

Cross-platform right? Ok, that means not internal, i.e. public. So where
is the URL? What's the name of the company then? Let's ask around and see if
what you say is really true to begin with and that nothing broke and the
time involved just to have a standard for standards sake.

never ending learning process? here?......if you were really in the real
world you would be here then, this is a holiday.....you would be taking a
break, not posting on a off day.

So you don't know crap and you are full of B.S. Nobody who programs 600, 000
line of code would even be here on a holiday as they really should be
resting from all the work to get that 600,000 lines of code to work.

 

[rhat]

Is this all browsers on the Mac?

Just because these say they are COMPLIANT doens't mean the web page will
display properly

Does stuff in IE 6 always display in Firefox correctly? NO. end of your
arguments

 

[Bruce Wood]

In all of this you haven't stated which browsers don't process XHTML
properly. You keep saying that it is not compatible, but you never give
any evidence.

 

[rhat]

Total B.S.

There are still lots of pages in IE 6 that don't display properly in
Firefox....

That fact that you easily can point to reference sites shows me that you are
just a book worm and not a real life programmer who can actually admit that
XHTML didn't work all the time when you converted over.

 

[Brian Henry]

does safari and mozilla render pages exactly the same? no so drop it.
everyone has their own rendering scheme and no one is required to follow W3C
exactly, W3C even says so on their own page. What they say is just a
recomendadtion

 

[Bruce Wood]

OK... so which browsers are giving you trouble, and which features of
XHTML are giving you trouble. You keep shouting about the REAL WORLD
and GETTING THINGS DONE, but you never post a concrete question of the
form, "So, how do I do this, then?" Nor do you give specific examples
of browsers that don't support XHTML or aspects of your Web app that
are going to be a headache to convert, if it needs converting at all.

For someone so adamant about practice always trumping theory, you're
long on theoretical ranting, and you supply no practical details at
all. Given this, all posters here can do is rant back.

Or perhaps that's your intent?

 

[rhat]

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/betterliving/

the original post....

BTW, it's known fact .NET developers have poor web skills and those on
thiese groups don't even have a web page and couldn't even code a web page
if they had to....just look at the personal web pages...looks like crap if
they even have one.

So they could even tell the difference if there pages break because they
look so crappy to begin with.

Most are BLOGS.....which means they DIDN'T even write, support or code even
that web page...this means ZERO EXPERIENCE in WEB PAGES...thus these
naysayers should sit DOWN and just shut up and actually start making a web
page for once in their life.

 

[Brian Henry]

if you think that 600,000 lines of code happens over night then you have to
be kidding yourself. Especially if you think just one person writes that
much! That's years of work along with teams of developers working on the
project simotaniously, and just so you know people do work today, This is a
US holiday, not the entire world so there are people working today! and to
assume someone doesnt "know crap" is moronic, because you don't have a clue
about someones knowledge just from reading posts on here. What kind of
degree do you have? What is your background? I bet you anything all the
MVP's here have more experience and education then you even come close to.

 

[Brian Henry]

that is CSS not XHTML you need to read into stuff before posting.. and the
fact I can use Google to look stuff up does not mean im a book work so grow
the heck up and learn to control your mouth. XHTML != CSS. all the bugs you
see in rendering were caused by bad CSS rendering not XHTML. Infact all
those browsers listed do render XHTML correctly when no CSS is applied and
render it exactly the same. Why don't you waste a second of your own time
and try it yourself.

If you seriously think you can convince people that have worked with this
for years and know the bugs and limitations otherwise, you are pretty
arrogant

 

[Brian Henry]

once again those "bugs" they talk about are not because of XHTML but because
of CSS problems.. which does not prove XHTML is bad

 

[rhat]

Well, well. we seem to be getting somewhere here.

If what you say is so, then MS is wrong to be forcing XHTML as the default
setting knowing full well it will break some, if not many, ASP.NET web apps.
THus the reason for the white paper by MS themselves stating that IT WILL
BREAK and the reason we are doing it because of STANDARD'S SAKE.

WOW, such a great reason to break things in Beta 2. MS is essentially
saying, "It's ok if it doesn't work as long as it's standards compliant".
Total and complete nonsense...DO YOU HERE ME MICROSOFT? Someone from the
REAL WORLD is speaking to you. and trying to give you a dose of reality

 

[Brian Henry]

if you really wanted MS to know about a problem, which They could care less
about this rant, mainly because it's not their problem they are makeing a
development language that follows a standard. You should post it to MSDN not
here, because like ive already said MICRSOFT DOES NOT READ THESE NEWGROUPS!
maybe you can get that through your thick skull finally? They have an entire
system at http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/default.aspx where you can
report suggestions bugs and comments.. so make something out of your
pathetic attempt at a post and tell them directly, not hoping that ms would
even read these groups, which they don't. That link will send your comment
DIRECTLY to the VS development team and they WILL comment on it and give you
a response.

 

[Michael D. Ober]

Since XHTML is NOT supported by all browsers, I should not have to RE-WRITE
my app to just to ACTUALLY GET IT WORK IN the REAL WORLD of all
browsers.....

RHAT - List the browsers and versions of those browsers that XHTML won't
work in. Otherwise SHUT UP.

Mike Ober.

And Yes, I code for a living.