Best CPU choice to avoid overheating in a small case.

[Kevin Lawton]

Looking for opinions on the best alternative.
I'm putting together a small 'workstation' for e-mail, internet and
word-processing use - nothing strenuous so I don't need tons of power. The
case I'm using is one of those 'mini' jobbies:- takes a micro-ATX mobo, one
floppy, one hard drive and a CD or DVD mounted on its side. Airflow is by
60mm fans, one front and one rear.
PSU is rated at 200w.
I have two CPU/mobo combinations available - one's an Intel P-III 733 MHz
and the other an AMD Duron 1GHz.
I'm looking for reliability rather than out-and-out speed and was wondering
which CPU was least likely to encounter overheating problems in the small
case I'll be using. The other CPU/mobo will be used in a bigger case at a
different location., so nothing will go to waste.
TIA,
Kevin.
P.S.: Sorry for the cross-posting - not too sure which NG would be best to
ask. ;-)

 

[Gareth Tuckwell]

Looking for opinions on the best alternative.
I'm putting together a small 'workstation' for e-mail, internet and
word-processing use - nothing strenuous so I don't need tons of power. The
case I'm using is one of those 'mini' jobbies:- takes a micro-ATX mobo,
one
floppy, one hard drive and a CD or DVD mounted on its side. Airflow is by
60mm fans, one front and one rear.
PSU is rated at 200w.
I have two CPU/mobo combinations available - one's an Intel P-III 733 MHz
and the other an AMD Duron 1GHz.
I'm looking for reliability rather than out-and-out speed and was
wondering
which CPU was least likely to encounter overheating problems in the small
case I'll be using. The other CPU/mobo will be used in a bigger case at a
different location., so nothing will go to waste.
TIA,
Kevin.
P.S.: Sorry for the cross-posting - not too sure which NG would be best to
ask. ;-)

Any heat problems will be down to what cooler you use, not which processor!
I have an older Shuttle case in my living room with an Althon XP 1800+, but
i have it turned down from its default 1533MHz to around 1250MHz. I also
intend to lower the voltage on the chip slightly - this means much less
heat. So you could consider the same move?? The shuttle case came with a
heatpipe and radiator at the rear with the exhaust fan blowing right through
it and out the back of the case, perhaps you could investigate something
along these lines.

 

[kony]

Looking for opinions on the best alternative.
I'm putting together a small 'workstation' for e-mail, internet and
word-processing use - nothing strenuous so I don't need tons of power. The
case I'm using is one of those 'mini' jobbies:- takes a micro-ATX mobo, one
floppy, one hard drive and a CD or DVD mounted on its side. Airflow is by
60mm fans, one front and one rear.
PSU is rated at 200w.
I have two CPU/mobo combinations available - one's an Intel P-III 733 MHz
and the other an AMD Duron 1GHz.
I'm looking for reliability rather than out-and-out speed and was wondering
which CPU was least likely to encounter overheating problems in the small
case I'll be using. The other CPU/mobo will be used in a bigger case at a
different location., so nothing will go to waste.
TIA,
Kevin.
P.S.: Sorry for the cross-posting - not too sure which NG would be best to
ask. ;-)

The P3 is better for that use, it will produce significantly
less heat. Google or visit manufacturer's websites for spec
sheets detailing heat, but additionally the P3 will be
idling most of the time in a HLT state while early Athlon
boards (and many later for that matter) did not enable the
HLT-idle feature. It will be a significant difference.

Reliability isn't necessarily tied to heat though, driver or
OS bugs, or particular motherboard makes/models can also
play a large role in that. We can however only judge by the
info provided.

A pair of 60mm fans should suffice, particularly if you
aren't using a high-performance (gaming) video card, but if
you can mod the case to accept an 80x25mm fan you may be
able to achieve greater efficiency, same flow at lower noise
or higher flow at same noise, providing you choose
appropriate fan. A single 80x25mm fan may even allow
removing the "other" 60mm fan if the chassis airflow path(s)
is fair to good.

 

[Monster]

your choice should be in cpu coolers not cpus themselves. Btw the major case
heater is your harddrives and psu rather than your cpu

 

[kony]

your choice should be in cpu coolers not cpus themselves. Btw the major case
heater is your harddrives and psu rather than your cpu

No, no, and no.

In a small case the heatsink size may be limited by
available space. Even so the same heatsink could be used on
either CPU, perhaps modding the Athlon 'sink if it exceeds
the socket 370 keep out zone.

It is untrue that harddrives and PSU are the major case
heaters. PSU EXHAUSTS, drawing out case air with it. Any
system set up this way will be COOLER as a result of having
the PSU in it, not hotter.

A single hard drive (OP is not setting up a multidrive
fileserver) should consume roughly 10W, which is less than
CPU, many video cards, or the motherboard itself.

 

[Kevin Lawton]

| On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:46:53 +0000 (UTC), "Kevin Lawton"
|
|| Looking for opinions on the best alternative.
|| I'm putting together a small 'workstation' for e-mail, internet and
|| word-processing use - nothing strenuous so I don't need tons of
|| power. The case I'm using is one of those 'mini' jobbies:- takes a
|| micro-ATX mobo, one floppy, one hard drive and a CD or DVD mounted
|| on its side. Airflow is by 60mm fans, one front and one rear.
|| PSU is rated at 200w.
|| I have two CPU/mobo combinations available - one's an Intel P-III
|| 733 MHz and the other an AMD Duron 1GHz.
|| I'm looking for reliability rather than out-and-out speed and was
|| wondering which CPU was least likely to encounter overheating
|| problems in the small case I'll be using. The other CPU/mobo will be
|| used in a bigger case at a different location., so nothing will go
|| to waste.
|| TIA,
|| Kevin.
|| P.S.: Sorry for the cross-posting - not too sure which NG would be
|| best to ask. ;-)
||
||
|
| The P3 is better for that use, it will produce significantly
| less heat. Google or visit manufacturer's websites for spec
| sheets detailing heat, but additionally the P3 will be
| idling most of the time in a HLT state while early Athlon
| boards (and many later for that matter) did not enable the
| HLT-idle feature. It will be a significant difference.
|
| Reliability isn't necessarily tied to heat though, driver or
| OS bugs, or particular motherboard makes/models can also
| play a large role in that. We can however only judge by the
| info provided.
|
| A pair of 60mm fans should suffice, particularly if you
| aren't using a high-performance (gaming) video card, but if
| you can mod the case to accept an 80x25mm fan you may be
| able to achieve greater efficiency, same flow at lower noise
| or higher flow at same noise, providing you choose
| appropriate fan. A single 80x25mm fan may even allow
| removing the "other" 60mm fan if the chassis airflow path(s)
| is fair to good.

That's what I thought might be the case - that the P-III would dissipate
less heat than the Duron (thunderbird, I think). Whichever I use, the HSF
will be a Coolermaster Aero. The mobos are both VIA chipset jobs with
integrated S3 Savage 4 graphics, Creative sound and Realtek network.
I certainly won't be able to fit an 80mm fan at the back, but could possibly
drill extra holes to allow two 60mm fans side-by-side. At the front, I might
be able to re-drill and fit an 80mm fan.
So thanks, I'll put the P-III in the very small case with the 60mm fans and
the Duron in the larger case which will take 80mm fans.
Cheers,
Kevin.

 

[Kevin Lawton]

| || Looking for opinions on the best alternative.
|| I'm putting together a small 'workstation' for e-mail, internet and
|| word-processing use - nothing strenuous so I don't need tons of
|| power. The case I'm using is one of those 'mini' jobbies:- takes a
|| micro-ATX mobo, one
|| floppy, one hard drive and a CD or DVD mounted on its side. Airflow
|| is by 60mm fans, one front and one rear.
|| PSU is rated at 200w.
|| I have two CPU/mobo combinations available - one's an Intel P-III
|| 733 MHz and the other an AMD Duron 1GHz.
|| I'm looking for reliability rather than out-and-out speed and was
|| wondering
|| which CPU was least likely to encounter overheating problems in the
|| small case I'll be using. The other CPU/mobo will be used in a
|| bigger case at a different location., so nothing will go to waste.
|| TIA,
|| Kevin.
|| P.S.: Sorry for the cross-posting - not too sure which NG would be
|| best to ask. ;-)
|
| Any heat problems will be down to what cooler you use, not which
| processor! I have an older Shuttle case in my living room with an
| Althon XP 1800+, but i have it turned down from its default 1533MHz
| to around 1250MHz. I also intend to lower the voltage on the chip
| slightly - this means much less heat. So you could consider the same
| move?? The shuttle case came with a heatpipe and radiator at the rear
| with the exhaust fan blowing right through it and out the back of the
| case, perhaps you could investigate something along these lines.

I will be using CoolerMaster Aero HSFs on both processors, but I would have
thought that heat dissipation was down to how much heat the processor
produces ? I believe that the P-III will produce less heat than the Duron
but I'm not absolutely certain.
I'm not too sure about reducing the voltage and clock rate. I don't need
terrific performance, but a 733 MHz P-III or a 1 GHz Duron aren't exactly
'cutting edge' anyway. I'll be installing Motherboard Monitor (MBM-5) to
keep an eye on the temps - just wanted to get the build as good as possible
first.
Not too sure I really fancy having to go to the complexity and expense of a
heatpipe and stuff - though it does sound like a good idea for high
performance systems.
Thanks,
Kevin.

 

[kony]

I will be using CoolerMaster Aero HSFs on both processors, but I would have
thought that heat dissipation was down to how much heat the processor
produces ? I believe that the P-III will produce less heat than the Duron
but I'm not absolutely certain.
I'm not too sure about reducing the voltage and clock rate. I don't need
terrific performance, but a 733 MHz P-III or a 1 GHz Duron aren't exactly
'cutting edge' anyway. I'll be installing Motherboard Monitor (MBM-5) to
keep an eye on the temps - just wanted to get the build as good as possible
first.
Not too sure I really fancy having to go to the complexity and expense of a
heatpipe and stuff - though it does sound like a good idea for high
performance systems.

A coolermaster aero is more than sufficient for the P3.

I have a miniATX box with less than (the average airflow for
2 x 60mm fans), it has a Celeron 900 in it with a small
'sink, 50 x 15 mm fan undervolted to 7V and still stays cool
enough. With the Coolermaster Aero you can probably reduce
it's fan voltage to the point where the fan is barely
spinning (< 7V) and still have CPU stay cool enough
providing it's base is smooth for best heat transfer.

A P3-733 is very easy to keep cool, though if the
motherboard allowed reducing voltage to around 1.55V, it
might barely need a fan at all.

 

[Matt]

case I'm using is one of those 'mini' jobbies:- takes a micro-ATX mobo, one
floppy, one hard drive and a CD or DVD mounted on its side. Airflow is by
60mm fans, one front and one rear.
PSU is rated at 200w

Take a look at the Antec Aria case (300W, no floppy, 3 HD, quiet):
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-146&depa=1
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=2936216/search=antec%20aria

 

[Kevin Lawton]

| Kevin Lawton wrote:
|
|| case I'm using is one of those 'mini' jobbies:- takes a micro-ATX
|| mobo, one floppy, one hard drive and a CD or DVD mounted on its
|| side. Airflow is by 60mm fans, one front and one rear.
|| PSU is rated at 200w
|
| Take a look at the Antec Aria case (300W, no floppy, 3 HD, quiet):
|
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-146&depa=1
|
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=2936216/search=antec
%2520aria

What's this - a PC case without a floppy ?
It does seem to be a very pretty case, and if I was in the market for
another case I might think about it.
As it happens, I already have the case and was concerned about whether it
would be able to cope with the heat dissipation of an AMD CPU or if it would
be better to use the Intel.
And there's still the problem of where do you mount your floppy and zip
drives in that Aria case.
It looks like I'll be playing the safe bet and using the P-III,
Kevin.

 

[Kevin Lawton]

| On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:25:35 +0000 (UTC), "Kevin Lawton"
|
|
|| I will be using CoolerMaster Aero HSFs on both processors, but I
|| would have thought that heat dissipation was down to how much heat
|| the processor produces ? I believe that the P-III will produce less
|| heat than the Duron but I'm not absolutely certain.
|| I'm not too sure about reducing the voltage and clock rate. I don't
|| need terrific performance, but a 733 MHz P-III or a 1 GHz Duron
|| aren't exactly 'cutting edge' anyway. I'll be installing Motherboard
|| Monitor (MBM-5) to keep an eye on the temps - just wanted to get the
|| build as good as possible first.
|| Not too sure I really fancy having to go to the complexity and
|| expense of a heatpipe and stuff - though it does sound like a good
|| idea for high performance systems.
|
| A coolermaster aero is more than sufficient for the P3.
|
| I have a miniATX box with less than (the average airflow for
| 2 x 60mm fans), it has a Celeron 900 in it with a small
| 'sink, 50 x 15 mm fan undervolted to 7V and still stays cool
| enough. With the Coolermaster Aero you can probably reduce
| it's fan voltage to the point where the fan is barely
| spinning (< 7V) and still have CPU stay cool enough
| providing it's base is smooth for best heat transfer.
|
| A P3-733 is very easy to keep cool, though if the
| motherboard allowed reducing voltage to around 1.55V, it
| might barely need a fan at all.

The Coolermaster Aero comes with a speed control so I can always try
different speeds once the PC is built. I might also fit a switch to allow
the case fans to be run at 9v instead of 12v (easy to do with a 9v regulator
chip).
Thanks for the help,
Kevin.

 

[Matt]

What's this - a PC case without a floppy ?

A lot of new PCs are sold nowadays without floppies. I don't know the
fraction, but I would guess half or a third.

And there's still the problem of where do you mount your floppy and zip
drives in that Aria case.

External USB or firewire drives only, it would seem.

 

[AndrewJ]

What's this - a PC case without a floppy ?
It does seem to be a very pretty case, and if I was in the market for
another case I might think about it.
As it happens, I already have the case and was concerned about whether it
would be able to cope with the heat dissipation of an AMD CPU or if it would
be better to use the Intel.
And there's still the problem of where do you mount your floppy and zip
drives in that Aria case.
It looks like I'll be playing the safe bet and using the P-III,
Kevin.

The 35 watt Mobile Barton is the best. I run over half a dozen in very
small custom boxes. 2400+ is unlocked and does 3400+ right out of the
box. $85 shipped:
http://tinyurl.com/2ksr6

Even though you have one already, this small case has a floppy bay,
$71 shipped ( I got 3 ):
http://tinyurl.com/2xrke
Review:
http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20031209/case-09.html

 

[Kevin Lawton]

|| What's this - a PC case without a floppy ?
|| It does seem to be a very pretty case, and if I was in the market for
|| another case I might think about it.
|| As it happens, I already have the case and was concerned about
|| whether it would be able to cope with the heat dissipation of an AMD
|| CPU or if it would be better to use the Intel.
|| And there's still the problem of where do you mount your floppy and
|| zip drives in that Aria case.
|| It looks like I'll be playing the safe bet and using the P-III,
|| Kevin.
|
|
| The 35 watt Mobile Barton is the best. I run over half a dozen in very
| small custom boxes. 2400+ is unlocked and does 3400+ right out of the
| box. $85 shipped:
| http://tinyurl.com/2ksr6
|
| Even though you have one already, this small case has a floppy bay,
| $71 shipped ( I got 3 ):
| http://tinyurl.com/2xrke
| Review:
| http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20031209/case-09.html

Thanks, but that would mean I have to go out and buy something instead of
using the hardware I already have.
The CPU and case you mention will be usefull for a future project, though,
and I do hope they don't mind shipping to England at those prices !
Kevin.

 

[Gareth Tuckwell]

The P3 is better for that use, it will produce significantly

less heat. Google or visit manufacturer's websites for spec
sheets detailing heat, but additionally the P3 will be
idling most of the time in a HLT state while early Athlon
boards (and many later for that matter) did not enable the
HLT-idle feature. It will be a significant difference.

You can get software that will continually tell the Athlon to go into the
HLT state when your processor is not being used heavily. I use CPUIdle and
it keeps my Athlon 2400+ down to about 33-35 degrees, when not loaded (31
degrees right now). I am able to use a silent fan and large heatsink - the
only think I can hear in the machine is the Hard Disk and that is a special
quiet Samsung Spinpoint job!

 

[Kevin Lawton]

|| The P3 is better for that use, it will produce significantly
|| less heat. Google or visit manufacturer's websites for spec
|| sheets detailing heat, but additionally the P3 will be
|| idling most of the time in a HLT state while early Athlon
|| boards (and many later for that matter) did not enable the
|| HLT-idle feature. It will be a significant difference.
|
| You can get software that will continually tell the Athlon to go into
| the HLT state when your processor is not being used heavily. I use
| CPUIdle and it keeps my Athlon 2400+ down to about 33-35 degrees,
| when not loaded (31 degrees right now). I am able to use a silent fan
| and large heatsink - the only think I can hear in the machine is the
| Hard Disk and that is a special quiet Samsung Spinpoint job!

That's an interesting idea, and one I hadn't thought of. Does 'CPUidle'
affect the machine's performance any ?
I have a 1.4 GHz Athlon Thunderbird machine which is a right bugger to keep
cool, it spends its life running a database. If CPUidle will get it to run
cooler without hitting the database performance then I'll give it a try.
Thanks.
Kevin.

 

[kony]

You can get software that will continually tell the Athlon to go into the
HLT state when your processor is not being used heavily. I use CPUIdle and
it keeps my Athlon 2400+ down to about 33-35 degrees, when not loaded (31
degrees right now). I am able to use a silent fan and large heatsink - the
only think I can hear in the machine is the Hard Disk and that is a special
quiet Samsung Spinpoint job!

It is true that an Athlon can be put into HLT state, but it
still has the potential to run hotter when not in HLT state,
including large current swings that may need more power
supply than often found in SFF systems... depends a lot on
what that SFF system was engineered to accomodate, including
it's airflow. It can't be assumed that a CPU set up to run
in HLT-idle mode will always do so either, Windows may crash
in some way and/or something else puts CPU in a busy loop
and ultimately the need was there to accomodate the CPU's
potential non-idle (if not full load) power & heat.

 

[kony]

|| The P3 is better for that use, it will produce significantly
|| less heat. Google or visit manufacturer's websites for spec
|| sheets detailing heat, but additionally the P3 will be
|| idling most of the time in a HLT state while early Athlon
|| boards (and many later for that matter) did not enable the
|| HLT-idle feature. It will be a significant difference.
|
| You can get software that will continually tell the Athlon to go into
| the HLT state when your processor is not being used heavily. I use
| CPUIdle and it keeps my Athlon 2400+ down to about 33-35 degrees,
| when not loaded (31 degrees right now). I am able to use a silent fan
| and large heatsink - the only think I can hear in the machine is the
| Hard Disk and that is a special quiet Samsung Spinpoint job!

That's an interesting idea, and one I hadn't thought of. Does 'CPUidle'
affect the machine's performance any ?
I have a 1.4 GHz Athlon Thunderbird machine which is a right bugger to keep
cool, it spends its life running a database. If CPUidle will get it to run
cooler without hitting the database performance then I'll give it a try.
Thanks.
Kevin.

It will effect performance but probably not a lot for your
use. Coming out of idle state requires a few cycles which
makes it a bad choice for some realtime activity like video
capture. The other argument for disabling HLT was that the
current swings from idle to load were high and it could
cause instability, but this is something you'd have to check
on the specific config you're running.

 

[Last Boy Scout]

Looking for opinions on the best alternative.
I'm putting together a small 'workstation' for e-mail, internet and
word-processing use - nothing strenuous so I don't need tons of power. The
case I'm using is one of those 'mini' jobbies:- takes a micro-ATX mobo, one
floppy, one hard drive and a CD or DVD mounted on its side. Airflow is by
60mm fans, one front and one rear.
PSU is rated at 200w.
I have two CPU/mobo combinations available - one's an Intel P-III 733 MHz
and the other an AMD Duron 1GHz.
I'm looking for reliability rather than out-and-out speed and was wondering
which CPU was least likely to encounter overheating problems in the small
case I'll be using. The other CPU/mobo will be used in a bigger case at a
different location., so nothing will go to waste.
TIA,
Kevin.
P.S.: Sorry for the cross-posting - not too sure which NG would be best to
ask. ;-)

Neither is worth buying.

Both will run kind of slow.

 

[kony]

Neither is worth buying.

Both will run kind of slow.

Completely disagree, it might take a stopwatch to even
notice a speed difference from those and ANY other CPU for
described uses. It is only an expensive waste to run an
expensive, heat and energy wastefull system when the job
doesn't require it.