Bamboozled by boot.ini (and some others... )

[Guest]

Jul-06 / Win XP Gen / Bamboozled by boot.ini (and some others...)
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroups/reader.mspx?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Win XP Pro SP2, Celeron 2.66 GHz, 256 MB RAM, 40 GB HD, Prime (C - FAT
32;
(D NTFS. Only one Win XP Pro install - on C: (prime partition). Only 1 HDD.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Have 3 queries. Panic over but few things need to be clarified for my sanity.
I give above specs now, in case have to follow up w/ detail, later, in regard
to 1. and 2., below.


1. Why do I need a boot.ini for Win XP Pro SP2? Why do I need it at all?.
Anyway, Thought all the ini's went South with the advent of the Registry.


2. Is it valid to install Win XP Pro to Prime partition on a new Slave drive
and then transfer the Slave as a Master to another computer?


3. HDD query. Can I install a new 40 GB HDD w/ Win XP Pro on it to an old
comp w/ an Award BIOS of 1998 vintage (PCI/PNP 686) - on the sticker?
(but 1984-2000 listed on boot screen).


This is a mini-comp w/ small, very clean, very modern-looking 8" x 7"
motherboard. Unit looks like new inside. Warranty Stickers on CPU heatsink
& PS look ticked at 2001. Modern, high-stand modular plug-sets on rear of
motherboard for connections. DataMini Computer System, stickered in
Singapore but appears made in China. Good CD-ROM and floppy drives.

Boot-up screen (w/ no HDD):

Award Moduloar BIOS - V6.00P6
© 1984-2000, Award Software

Main Processor - Pentium III 800EB MHz (133x 6.0)
Memory - 131,072 K 8M Shared memory

The unit seemed OK w/ an old Win98 8.4 GB HDD (Seagate U8 Model ST38410A).
It also boots OK w/ DOS boot disk.

However, it was tested w/ a monitor for which I had no driver and the old
HDD was flaky and subsequently gave up the ghost. Things would hang up in
Win 98, after a bit of fiddling around with Explorer.


The boot partition on the new Maxtor 40 GB HDD is just over 7.8 GB. This
should be OK since the whole previous HDD in there was 8.4 GB (W98).

I've read something somewhere about a 7.8 GB and a 32 GB limitation, I
think,
regarding recognition (or partitioning) via older Win OS's and BIOSes.

W/ the Maxtor, I recall a boot error message. It terminated the boot and
message presented in non-bold white text on light blue background. It said
something like:

Windows has stopped this boot to protect your system (what system?
There was nothing there except the HDD w/ Win XP on it, which never
came up). Blah, blah, blah - for 3/4 of the screen. Nothing very
serious. Also "check your system for virus ..." and so on...

The 40 GB Maxtor works just fine in another older Tower computer (5 yrs old),
slightly more-recent Award BIOS, bigger motherboard, about same physical
size processor (think it was a Celeron 733 MHz), same memory and same modern
modular coonnectors on rear. Both processors have fans.

Any constructive advice greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

See below.

Jul-06 / Win XP Gen / Bamboozled by boot.ini (and some others...)
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroups/reader.mspx?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
Win XP Pro SP2, Celeron 2.66 GHz, 256 MB RAM, 40 GB HD, Prime (C - FAT
32;
(D NTFS. Only one Win XP Pro install - on C: (prime partition). Only 1 HDD.
---


Have 3 queries. Panic over but few things need to be clarified for my sanity.
I give above specs now, in case have to follow up w/ detail, later, in regard
to 1. and 2., below.


1. Why do I need a boot.ini for Win XP Pro SP2? Why do I need it at all?.
Anyway, Thought all the ini's went South with the advent of the

Registry.

Boot.ini is processed a long time before the registry is
accessed. It lets you specify the Windows system
drive and folder from outside Windows. Have you
ever attempted editing the registry from outside Windows?

2. Is it valid to install Win XP Pro to Prime partition on a new Slave drive
and then transfer the Slave as a Master to another computer?

Probably not:
- You must specify the correct disk and partition number in
boot.ini. They are probably incorrect on the new PC.
- The new PC may not have the required MBR and boot files.
- The new PC will probably have different hardware, causing
Windows to crash.

3. HDD query. Can I install a new 40 GB HDD w/ Win XP Pro on it to an old
comp w/ an Award BIOS of 1998 vintage (PCI/PNP 686) - on the sticker?
(but 1984-2000 listed on boot screen).

Probably not - see the third item under question 2. Best to
go for a new installation on the target PC.

 

[David]

Jul-06 / Win XP Gen / Bamboozled by boot.ini (and some others...)
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroups/reader.mspx?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Win XP Pro SP2, Celeron 2.66 GHz, 256 MB RAM, 40 GB HD, Prime (C - FAT
32;
(D NTFS. Only one Win XP Pro install - on C: (prime partition). Only 1 HDD.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Have 3 queries. Panic over but few things need to be clarified for my sanity.
I give above specs now, in case have to follow up w/ detail, later, in regard
to 1. and 2., below.


1. Why do I need a boot.ini for Win XP Pro SP2? Why do I need it at all?.
Anyway, Thought all the ini's went South with the advent of the Registry.

Windows looks to boot.ini to find out where system files (such as the
registry) are so it can use them to load the operating system.

2. Is it valid to install Win XP Pro to Prime partition on a new Slave drive
and then transfer the Slave as a Master to another computer?

You can't do this that simply. MS Windows _always_ boots from the
primary partition on the _first_ hard drive. Some of its system files
necessary for boot, such as boot.ini, are put there when you install it.
So if you install WinXP to your slave drive it puts some files on your
master that won't be on your slave when you transfer it to another
machine. Also, Windows XP puts machine specific information in its
installation (the HAL or Hardware Abstraction Layer). This means that
even if you put the drive in as master and install XP to it, the other
machine must have the same motherboard etc. or you must repair the
installation. (See MS Knowledgebase article 824125 "How to replace the
motherboard on a computer that is running Windows Server 2003, Windows
XP, or Windows 2000") This isn't to say it can't be done, just that it
would be much easier to just install XP to the hard drive in the machine
where it's going to live in the first place. Also, if you activate
it and then move it to another machine it will have to be reactivated.
Sorry for being so long winded, but I wanted to be sure you knew what
was involved.

3. HDD query. Can I install a new 40 GB HDD w/ Win XP Pro on it to an old
comp w/ an Award BIOS of 1998 vintage (PCI/PNP 686) - on the sticker?
(but 1984-2000 listed on boot screen).

As I mentioned above, you will have to repair the XP installation for it
to work. As far as the system requirements: The processor should be
fine. You meet the minimum memory requirement (I would install more,
you're going to have sluggish performance otherwise). If your video
card is capable of supervga (800 x 600) then it should run.

 

[Wesley Vogel]

1. Why do I need a boot.ini for Win XP Pro SP2? Why do I need it at all?.

Anyway, Thought all the ini's went South with the advent of the
Registry.

The purpose of the Boot.ini file in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314081

If the file BOOT.INI is not found in the root directory NTLDR will continue
the boot sequence and attempt to load XP from the first partition of the
first disk, typically C:\.

You can avoid this error
[[ Boot.ini not found or invalid. Booting from C:\Windows ]]

"Invalid Boot.ini" or "Windows could not start" error messages when you
start your computer
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330184

Using any boot.ini options from msconfig...

Safe-Mode Boot Switches for Windows Boot.ini File
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/239780

Do a Search for desktop.ini and see how many you have.

BTW, You may have thought that *.com files have gone by the wayside as well.

NTDETECT.COM (NTDETECT detects installed hardware components when XP boots.)

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Wesley Vogel]

I forgot.

1. Why do I need a boot.ini for Win XP Pro SP2? Why do I need it at all?.
Anyway, Thought all the ini's went South with the advent of the
Registry.

[[Windows (specifically Ntldr) uses the Boot.ini file to determine which
operating system options to display when the Startup program is running. ]]
from...
The purpose of the Boot.ini file in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314081

If the file BOOT.INI is not found in the root directory NTLDR will continue
the boot sequence and *attempt* to load XP from the first partition of the
first disk, typically C:\.

Not sure from your post if you have a dual boot with Windows XP and Windows
98.

If so, you will not get a boot menu to choose an OS if you have no boot.ini.

I.e. Please select the operating system to start:

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Timothy Daniels]

If the file BOOT.INI is not found in the root directory NTLDR will continue
the boot sequence and attempt to load XP from the first partition of the
first disk, typically C:\.

From what folder in the first partition?

*TimDaniels*

 

[Wesley Vogel]

Whatever ntldr can find. Windows, Winnt. Ntldr will *attempt* to find
something. Doesn't really matter. If the boot.ini is missing or corrupt...

Invalid Boot.ini" or "Windows could not start" error messages when you
start your computer
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330184

Maybe XP starts, maybe you're SOL.

Ntldr is supposed to use the ARC path specified in the boot.ini to find the
boot partition.

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Guest]

13:00 Thailand time / Win XP Gen / Bamboozled by boot.ini...

Thank you all - Pegasus, David, Wesley Vogel - for the overwhelming amount
of info provided on the issues (all but the kitchen sink, it seems!). This
is highly
appreciated but will take a while to digest and also to go thru all the
links.
All I can say for now is, wow!

Clicked 'YES' because it looks to me that mission more than accomplished.

Replied to the last message only, mainly because it was expeditious for now.
Intend reply to all, soon as digest and apply (where possible) and get
chance, as some things might need a bit more claro. My atrophied brain just
can't take this
mass of data in one gulp. Plus I'm right in middle of another danged problem.

Thanks again - Pegasus, David and Wesley - for all that fantabulous advice.

(I had better snip most of the below as don't want to overclutter your mail
box.
Not sure if this is rational or not but, for myself, already saved this
entire thread.
Advise, please).

 

[Guest]

22-Jul-06 / To Pegasus / Win XP Gen
------------------------------------------

No chance to scrutinize other replies as yet. As regards:

Boot.ini is processed a long time before the registry is
accessed. It lets you specify the Windows system
drive and folder from outside Windows. Have you
ever attempted editing the registry from outside Windows?

----------------------------

Thank you for the info. Didn't know. Every bit helps.

On the boot.ini, did temp remove it for test. Seemed OK.
Just v. brief error message during boot. Nothing critical.

On the Reg, no; never tried. Might try edit a recent "backup"
via DOS boot - assuming Win backed all hives (don't think
so) or, at least the target part. But then back to square 1 as
not know how replace orig w/ backup, from outside Windows...

==========================================

Probably not:
- You must specify the correct disk and partition number in
boot.ini. They are probably incorrect on the new PC.
- The new PC may not have the required MBR and boot files.
- The new PC will probably have different hardware, causing
Windows to crash.

-------------------

Thanks for that. Really handy to know. Will remember next time.
Explains a lot of things - like why I had all that trouble.

Did *FINALLY* manage to get it sorted. Old comp now working OK.


To clarify, there's my working pc and then there's 2 old hopefuls,
one of which friend wanted me install his XP and new HDD.

Both old pc's had problematic CD-ROM's; main reason for doing
the job at mine.

Not want initially open my own old box. Afraid Murphy might
leave me with nothing - which, in fact, he did and did so
well, that couldn't even get past "press TAB for POST. Press
DEL to enter BIOS". *MAXIMUM PANIC*. Much moaning & groaning.

Two days of scratching head later, in desperation, pulled
BIOS bat. Apparently reset all and let me back in - to the BIOS,
that is.

Lost so much sleep, forgot all I did but recall long battle
to get boot from own Master HDD. Had to finally re-input
the XP CD and the slave w/ the new XP install. Only way.

Now looked like booted from Slave, as had a clean DeskTop - as
if Win had totally usurped my system. But at least now had
access to my Master HDD, via Slave. Untold relief.

Don't recall exactly all I did later but eventually did get
boot menu to boot to Master - while Slave removed; but the 2
choices remained in menu and boot.ini.

Next, re-partitioned Maxtor; did whole thing all over -
directly at old target comp, from XP CD, as you said. Got me
nowhere. Nothing but errors now on boot via new HDD.

Turns out, the comp's CD-ROM drive was so bad, it led me
around in circles for 2 days. Finally hit me that seemingly
unrelated Win error messages during boot attempts were
caused by none other. Maybe corrupted partitions or
format or XP install.

Borrowed old, good CD drive for the old comp. Whole shebang
all over again. That finally did the trick.


I understand now, from yours & other replies here, why a lot
of these problems at both comps occurred - via the slave XP
install. But my gut says there's got to be a way; perhaps by
following the observations in your post.

If not, I have to wonder if this is the optimal way for an OS.
What about comps with no CD Drive? (not many, I know) or that
have a bad one (my case)? Would it not be just as easy to
allow a basic "Slave" install via another comp - and put the
rest of the required XP CD files on that HDD and then let user
decide when and where to install that new drive as a Master?

That is, the installation should not automatically usurp the
system - unless this is explicit. The least painful way might
be via a an extra install option. BTW, How do the OEM's do it?

Initially I'd had no other Install choice. Could've replaced
bad CD-ROM with my own; but with my luck, one of those old comps
might have blown it too. Took the less risky route first. You
might say we're a bit 'financially challenged' around here.
Got to watch it.

============================================

Probably not - see the third item under question 2. Best to
go for a new installation on the target PC.

--------------------------

Right again, as I've already experienced.

In regard to the 2nd old comp w/ the older BIOS:

Means I'd have to get other friend to maybe buy new XP & new
HDD, just to try; not to mention a new CD drive. No way (might
be complete waste). No want risk messing w/ the currently
happily working Install at the 1st old comp either; not after all I
just went thru. That's a definite no no. Murphy says "if it works,
don't touch". Good advice.

Best to find an old, smaller-size Win98/ME HDD to try first to
check things out with. BIOS might not be able to handle a 40 GB
HDD either. Can't even find it. For that test, just have to wait 'til
another new HDD comes my way.

If the option I mentioned earlier, existed, we might not now
be confronted with all this extra bother and potential expense.

--------------------------------------------------

In so far as the 'Slave Install' is concerned, unless otherwise
informed, for me, the lesson learned is: "INSTALL OS AT TARGET
COMP ONLY".

==========================================

I'll leave it at that for now. Still clueless, though, about my
other query:

I've read something somewhere about a 7.8 GB and a 32 GB
limitation, I think, regarding recognition (or partitioning)
via older Win OS's and BIOSes.

Anyone familiar w/ this? Would help to know.

Appreciate,

Ted...
--

See below.

snipped...

 

[Guest]

26-Jul-06 / To: Win XP Gen / Bamboozled by boot.ini...
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroups/reader.mspx?
----------------------------------

Just to recapitulate, thanks all for your help. Understand the subject lots
better now. Main problems resolved.


To: Pegasus

From what I've just experienced, looks like your info correct on all points.
As implied, did ultimately have to re-install XP directly at target comp.

Note: at later trials (2nd boot and up, after installation) confirmed to
myself that "boot.ini" seemed not that critical (temp removed from C:\) -
not for single install and single HDD only and not after the first boot,
anyway.


To: David

Ditto the above. Thanks for the extra detail. All went OK, finally, at 1st
old comp. For 2nd old comp, already got me an old CD-ROM but not yet a new
HDD - and still not sure if old BIOS ok for large HDD.


To: Wesley Vogel

Ditto all the above. Appreciate all the links. On the '....ini'
files, right; I forgot. Initial search (of just C showed 22 .ini's
(2 for DeskTop). However, when I enabled hidden, system and sub-folders
in the search options, got a total 0f *680* ini's on just C: ! Also
understand programmers like to use these for their aps as they allow
the configuration to be easily transferred when ap is moved or copied.

If anyone interested, found another useful article on boot.ini at:

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/pcbasics/a/boot_ini.htm
What Is The Boot.ini File and What Does It Do?

(haven't had chance to read yet, though).
-----------------------------------------------

Thanks again to all for your very detailed and straightforward
explanations and help.

--
Ted...

I forgot.

1. Why do I need a boot.ini for Win XP Pro SP2? Why do I need it at all?.
Anyway, Thought all the ini's went South with the advent of the
Registry.

[[Windows (specifically Ntldr) uses the Boot.ini file to determine which
operating system options to display when the Startup program is running. ]]
from...
The purpose of the Boot.ini file in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314081

If the file BOOT.INI is not found in the root directory NTLDR will continue
the boot sequence and *attempt* to load XP from the first partition of the
first disk, typically C:\.

Not sure from your post if you have a dual boot with Windows XP and Windows
98.

If so, you will not get a boot menu to choose an OS if you have no boot.ini.

I.e. Please select the operating system to start:

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

snipped...

 

[Wesley Vogel]

Here are a few more articles, Ted. I just happened to have them here,
handy.

HOW TO: Edit the Boot.ini File in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=289022

The Purpose of the Boot.ini File in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314081

Safe-Mode Boot Switches for Windows Boot.ini File
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;239780

Boot.ini File Still Contains an Entry for Windows NT 4.0 After New
Installation of Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;304829

Boot.ini file has been changed after installing third party software
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;555044

Boot.ini File Contains Previous Boot Options
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;225997

"Invalid Boot.ini" or "Windows Could Not Start" Error Messages When You
Start Your Computer
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184

Bootcfg
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...net/prodtechnol/winxppro/proddocs/bootcfg.asp

Additional information and help with the boot.ini
http://www.xmission.com/~comphope/issues/ch000492.htm

Available switch options for the Windows 2000 Boot.ini file
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;833722

Available switch options for the Windows XP and the Windows Server 2003
Boot.ini files
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;833721

Boot INI Options Reference
http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/info/bootini.shtml

Boot Parameter Reference
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d..._92599dfa-1b31-4273-8202-31c51e190b01.xml.asp

BOOT.INI and ARC Path Naming Conventions and Usage
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/102873

BOOT.INI Controlling The Boot Process
http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/multiboot/boot_ini.htm

Definition of System Partition and Boot Partition
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314470

How Partition Numbers are Assigned in BOOT.INI
http://www.bootitng.com/kb/article.php?id=159

HOW TO Edit the Boot.ini File in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;289022

How to Hide Boot.ini Entries from Displaying After Multiple Installations
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/160899/en-us

Reviewing and Correcting Boot.ini Settings on x86-based Systems
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prmc_str_masc.asp

Safe-Mode Boot Switches for Windows Boot.ini File
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;239780

The purpose of the Boot.ini file in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314081

Understanding the Boot.ini Naming Convention
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...0/server/reskit/en-us/prork/prbd_std_ccef.asp

boot.ini is missing
See if you have a file called boot.ini.backup in %windir%\pss. If you do,
copy it, change the name of the file to boot.ini and move it to C:

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

26-Jul-06 / To: Win XP Gen / Bamboozled by boot.ini...
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroups/reader.mspx?
----------------------------------

Just to recapitulate, thanks all for your help. Understand the subject
lots better now. Main problems resolved.


To: Pegasus

From what I've just experienced, looks like your info correct on all
points. As implied, did ultimately have to re-install XP directly at
target comp.

Note: at later trials (2nd boot and up, after installation) confirmed to
myself that "boot.ini" seemed not that critical (temp removed from C:\) -
not for single install and single HDD only and not after the first boot,
anyway.


To: David

Ditto the above. Thanks for the extra detail. All went OK, finally, at 1st
old comp. For 2nd old comp, already got me an old CD-ROM but not yet a new
HDD - and still not sure if old BIOS ok for large HDD.


To: Wesley Vogel

Ditto all the above. Appreciate all the links. On the '....ini'
files, right; I forgot. Initial search (of just C showed 22 .ini's
(2 for DeskTop). However, when I enabled hidden, system and sub-folders
in the search options, got a total 0f *680* ini's on just C: ! Also
understand programmers like to use these for their aps as they allow
the configuration to be easily transferred when ap is moved or copied.

If anyone interested, found another useful article on boot.ini at:

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/pcbasics/a/boot_ini.htm
What Is The Boot.ini File and What Does It Do?

(haven't had chance to read yet, though).
-----------------------------------------------

Thanks again to all for your very detailed and straightforward
explanations and help.

--
Ted...

I forgot.

1. Why do I need a boot.ini for Win XP Pro SP2? Why do I need it at
all?. Anyway, Thought all the ini's went South with the advent of the
Registry.

[[Windows (specifically Ntldr) uses the Boot.ini file to determine which
operating system options to display when the Startup program is running.
]] from...
The purpose of the Boot.ini file in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314081

If the file BOOT.INI is not found in the root directory NTLDR will
continue the boot sequence and *attempt* to load XP from the first
partition of the first disk, typically C:\.

Not sure from your post if you have a dual boot with Windows XP and
Windows
98.

If so, you will not get a boot menu to choose an OS if you have no
boot.ini.

I.e. Please select the operating system to start:

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

snipped...

 

[Timothy Daniels]

And not one of those references explains what rdisk(x)" means
except to say that "x" is the number of the hard drive on the controller.
What the hell does THAT mean? And most BIOSes, in allowing the
user to adjust the HD boot order, cause the meaning of "x" to change.
It turns out that "x" is the position of the hard drive in the HD boot order,
something no website has figured out because of Microsoft's vagueness.
Why doesn't Microsoft just say this?

*TimDaniels*

Here are a few more articles, Ted. I just happened to have them here,
handy.

HOW TO: Edit the Boot.ini File in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=289022

The Purpose of the Boot.ini File in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314081

Safe-Mode Boot Switches for Windows Boot.ini File
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;239780

Boot.ini File Still Contains an Entry for Windows NT 4.0 After New
Installation of Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;304829

Boot.ini file has been changed after installing third party software
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;555044

Boot.ini File Contains Previous Boot Options
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;225997

"Invalid Boot.ini" or "Windows Could Not Start" Error Messages When You
Start Your Computer
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184

Bootcfg
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...net/prodtechnol/winxppro/proddocs/bootcfg.asp

Additional information and help with the boot.ini
http://www.xmission.com/~comphope/issues/ch000492.htm

Available switch options for the Windows 2000 Boot.ini file
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;833722

Available switch options for the Windows XP and the Windows Server 2003
Boot.ini files
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;833721

Boot INI Options Reference
http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/info/bootini.shtml

Boot Parameter Reference
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d..._92599dfa-1b31-4273-8202-31c51e190b01.xml.asp

BOOT.INI and ARC Path Naming Conventions and Usage
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/102873

BOOT.INI Controlling The Boot Process
http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/multiboot/boot_ini.htm

Definition of System Partition and Boot Partition
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314470

How Partition Numbers are Assigned in BOOT.INI
http://www.bootitng.com/kb/article.php?id=159

HOW TO Edit the Boot.ini File in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;289022

How to Hide Boot.ini Entries from Displaying After Multiple Installations
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/160899/en-us

Reviewing and Correcting Boot.ini Settings on x86-based Systems
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prmc_str_masc.asp

Safe-Mode Boot Switches for Windows Boot.ini File
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;239780

The purpose of the Boot.ini file in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314081

Understanding the Boot.ini Naming Convention
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...0/server/reskit/en-us/prork/prbd_std_ccef.asp

boot.ini is missing
See if you have a file called boot.ini.backup in %windir%\pss. If you do,
copy it, change the name of the file to boot.ini and move it to C:

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

26-Jul-06 / To: Win XP Gen / Bamboozled by boot.ini...
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroups/reader.mspx?
----------------------------------

Just to recapitulate, thanks all for your help. Understand the subject
lots better now. Main problems resolved.


To: Pegasus

From what I've just experienced, looks like your info correct on all
points. As implied, did ultimately have to re-install XP directly at
target comp.

Note: at later trials (2nd boot and up, after installation) confirmed to
myself that "boot.ini" seemed not that critical (temp removed from C:\) -
not for single install and single HDD only and not after the first boot,
anyway.


To: David

Ditto the above. Thanks for the extra detail. All went OK, finally, at 1st
old comp. For 2nd old comp, already got me an old CD-ROM but not yet a new
HDD - and still not sure if old BIOS ok for large HDD.


To: Wesley Vogel

Ditto all the above. Appreciate all the links. On the '....ini'
files, right; I forgot. Initial search (of just C showed 22 .ini's
(2 for DeskTop). However, when I enabled hidden, system and sub-folders
in the search options, got a total 0f *680* ini's on just C: ! Also
understand programmers like to use these for their aps as they allow
the configuration to be easily transferred when ap is moved or copied.

If anyone interested, found another useful article on boot.ini at:

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/pcbasics/a/boot_ini.htm
What Is The Boot.ini File and What Does It Do?

(haven't had chance to read yet, though).
-----------------------------------------------

Thanks again to all for your very detailed and straightforward
explanations and help.

--
Ted...

I forgot.

1. Why do I need a boot.ini for Win XP Pro SP2? Why do I need it at
all?. Anyway, Thought all the ini's went South with the advent of the
Registry.

[[Windows (specifically Ntldr) uses the Boot.ini file to determine which
operating system options to display when the Startup program is running.
]] from...
The purpose of the Boot.ini file in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314081

If the file BOOT.INI is not found in the root directory NTLDR will
continue the boot sequence and *attempt* to load XP from the first
partition of the first disk, typically C:\.

Not sure from your post if you have a dual boot with Windows XP and
Windows
98.

If so, you will not get a boot menu to choose an OS if you have no
boot.ini.

I.e. Please select the operating system to start:

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

snipped...

 

[Wesley Vogel]

Ask Microsoft.

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

And not one of those references explains what rdisk(x)" means
except to say that "x" is the number of the hard drive on the controller.
What the hell does THAT mean? And most BIOSes, in allowing the
user to adjust the HD boot order, cause the meaning of "x" to change.
It turns out that "x" is the position of the hard drive in the HD boot
order, something no website has figured out because of Microsoft's
vagueness.
Why doesn't Microsoft just say this?

*TimDaniels*

Here are a few more articles, Ted. I just happened to have them here,
handy.

HOW TO: Edit the Boot.ini File in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=289022

The Purpose of the Boot.ini File in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314081

Safe-Mode Boot Switches for Windows Boot.ini File
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;239780

Boot.ini File Still Contains an Entry for Windows NT 4.0 After New
Installation of Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;304829

Boot.ini file has been changed after installing third party software
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;555044

Boot.ini File Contains Previous Boot Options
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;225997

"Invalid Boot.ini" or "Windows Could Not Start" Error Messages When You
Start Your Computer
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330184

Bootcfg
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...net/prodtechnol/winxppro/proddocs/bootcfg.asp

Additional information and help with the boot.ini
http://www.xmission.com/~comphope/issues/ch000492.htm

Available switch options for the Windows 2000 Boot.ini file
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;833722

Available switch options for the Windows XP and the Windows Server 2003
Boot.ini files
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;833721

Boot INI Options Reference
http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/info/bootini.shtml

Boot Parameter Reference
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d..._92599dfa-1b31-4273-8202-31c51e190b01.xml.asp

BOOT.INI and ARC Path Naming Conventions and Usage
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/102873

BOOT.INI Controlling The Boot Process
http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/multiboot/boot_ini.htm

Definition of System Partition and Boot Partition
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314470

How Partition Numbers are Assigned in BOOT.INI
http://www.bootitng.com/kb/article.php?id=159

HOW TO Edit the Boot.ini File in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;289022

How to Hide Boot.ini Entries from Displaying After Multiple Installations
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/160899/en-us

Reviewing and Correcting Boot.ini Settings on x86-based Systems
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prmc_str_masc.asp

Safe-Mode Boot Switches for Windows Boot.ini File
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;239780

The purpose of the Boot.ini file in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314081

Understanding the Boot.ini Naming Convention
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...0/server/reskit/en-us/prork/prbd_std_ccef.asp

boot.ini is missing
See if you have a file called boot.ini.backup in %windir%\pss. If you
do, copy it, change the name of the file to boot.ini and move it to C:

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

26-Jul-06 / To: Win XP Gen / Bamboozled by boot.ini...
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroups/reader.mspx?
----------------------------------

Just to recapitulate, thanks all for your help. Understand the subject
lots better now. Main problems resolved.


To: Pegasus

From what I've just experienced, looks like your info correct on all
points. As implied, did ultimately have to re-install XP directly at
target comp.

Note: at later trials (2nd boot and up, after installation) confirmed to
myself that "boot.ini" seemed not that critical (temp removed from C:\)
- not for single install and single HDD only and not after the first
boot, anyway.


To: David

Ditto the above. Thanks for the extra detail. All went OK, finally, at
1st old comp. For 2nd old comp, already got me an old CD-ROM but not
yet a new HDD - and still not sure if old BIOS ok for large HDD.


To: Wesley Vogel

Ditto all the above. Appreciate all the links. On the '....ini'
files, right; I forgot. Initial search (of just C showed 22 .ini's
(2 for DeskTop). However, when I enabled hidden, system and sub-folders
in the search options, got a total 0f *680* ini's on just C: ! Also
understand programmers like to use these for their aps as they allow
the configuration to be easily transferred when ap is moved or copied.

If anyone interested, found another useful article on boot.ini at:

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/pcbasics/a/boot_ini.htm
What Is The Boot.ini File and What Does It Do?

(haven't had chance to read yet, though).
-----------------------------------------------

Thanks again to all for your very detailed and straightforward
explanations and help.

--
Ted...


:

I forgot.

1. Why do I need a boot.ini for Win XP Pro SP2? Why do I need it at
all?. Anyway, Thought all the ini's went South with the advent of
the Registry.

[[Windows (specifically Ntldr) uses the Boot.ini file to determine
which operating system options to display when the Startup program is
running. ]] from...
The purpose of the Boot.ini file in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314081

If the file BOOT.INI is not found in the root directory NTLDR will
continue the boot sequence and *attempt* to load XP from the first
partition of the first disk, typically C:\.

Not sure from your post if you have a dual boot with Windows XP and
Windows
98.

If so, you will not get a boot menu to choose an OS if you have no
boot.ini.

I.e. Please select the operating system to start:

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

snipped...

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Ask Microsoft.

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

Yeah, that really helped.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Wesley Vogel]

That was unfair. It isn't Microsoft's deal anyway.

I just learned this.

r stands for rigid. So, rdisk is the physical hard disk.

fdisk is a FloppyDisk. Where f is for floppy.

This just in.

<quote>
Path Specifications
Devices, device partitions, and files are denoted textually by path
specifications. A path specification is an ISOLatin1 character string with
the following format:

<path> ::= <adapter>...<controller><peripheral>
[<partition>][<filepath>]
<adapter> ::= <adapter mnemonic>(<key>)
<controller> ::= <controller mnemonic>(<key>)
<peripheral> ::= <peripheral mnemonic>(<key>)
<partition> ::= partition([<number>])
<protocol> ::= tftp() | ripl() | console(0) | console(1)
<filepath> ::= <file system specific name>

Valid adapter, controller, and peripheral mnemonics are shown in Table 4-3.

Class: Adapter
Type: SCSI
Mnemonic: scsi

Class: Adapter
Type: MultiFunction
Mnemonic: multi

Class: Controller
Type: Disk
Mnemonic: disk

Class: Peripheral
Type: Disk (rigid)
Mnemonic: rdisk

The initial portion of a path specification, up to and including the
peripheral specifier, specifies a top-down traversal of the system
configuration data structure, uniquely identifying a peripheral device. This
traversal is restricted to passing through adapter, controller, and
peripheral nodes only.

For example, consider a platform with a single integral SCSI adapter, to
which is connected a SCSI disk controller with a SCSI ID of 3, and one disk
attached to the controller. The path specification for the disk would be:

scsi(0)disk(3)rdisk(0)

<quote>
from...
The Advanced RISC Computing Specification
http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/ARC/riscspec.pdf

Armed with that info, another example.

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0) would be a MultiFunction adapter with a disk
controller and one hard disk.

From my boot.ini:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

The Path is: Adapter\Controller\Peripheral\Partition\Filepath

multi(0) is a MultiFunction Adapter.
disk(0) is the Controller for the disk, a hard disk in this case (rdisk
denotes a hard disk).
rdisk(0) is the Peripheral, which is a hard disk.
partition(1) is the Partition on the hard disk.
WINDOWS is the Filepath.

<quote>
advanced RISC computing
A reduced instruction set computer (RISC)-based computer architecture
standard, associated with the ACE consortium. Advanced RISC computing (ARC)
machines include both RISC- and CISC-based platforms, and supply the
following components to the operating system loader:
* On ACPI-compliant platforms, a set of machine firmware that supports
bootstrap loading and execution as an "abstracted" set of ARC routines and
ARC devices.
* On non-ACPI-compliant platforms, the NT-based operating system provides a
hardware recognizer (Ntdetect) that detects the necessary devices to
bootstrap the system. Ntdetect queries the ROM BIOS and builds a hardware
database that emulates the RISC-based ARC firmware.
* On both kinds of platforms, a HAL that interfaces between the hardware and
the system.

Device drivers for certain types of devices create an alias between the
names of their device objects and the corresponding ARC device name by
calling IoAssignArcName.

reduced instruction set computer (RISC)
A type of microprocessor design that focuses on rapid and efficient
processing of a relatively small set of instructions. RISC architecture
limits the number of instructions that are built into the microprocessor,
but optimizes each so it can be carried out very rapidly.
<quote>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d..._bc4c2a9d-b9a3-44b8-b8b6-aa43027008d3.xml.asp

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Timothy Daniels]

That was unfair. It isn't Microsoft's deal anyway.

Maybe. I spent more than 6 weeks telephoning and
emailing various technical people at Phoenix Technologies,
publisher of the Intel/Dell BIOS (and many other BIOSes).
They maintained that the meaning of "rdisk()" was
determined by Microsoft. (Which I consider to be only
partly true since ntldr only uses what the BIOS makes
available to it in using "rdisk(x)" to refer to a particular
hard disk drive.

I just learned this.

r stands for rigid. So, rdisk is the physical hard disk.

"r" may have stood for "rigid" in the deep dark past
when a PC had only one hard disk, but now a more
meaningful mnemonic would be "relative disk" since
it expresses the relative position of a hard disk drive
in the HD boot order. See the posting by me with
subject line "meaning of "rdisk()" in boot.ini file" in
alt.sys.pc-clone.dell in January of 2006:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt....2a9f0?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#173931e294f2a9f0

I appreciate the description that you supply - it does
give historical perspective - but it still begs the question:
"What does "rdisk(1)" and "rdisk(2)" and rdisk(3)"
mean versus "rdisk(0)"? My posting, linked above,
explains this.

*TimDaniels*

fdisk is a FloppyDisk. Where f is for floppy.

This just in.

<quote>
Path Specifications
Devices, device partitions, and files are denoted textually by
path specifications. A path specification is an ISOLatin1
character string with the following format:

<path> ::= <adapter>...<controller><peripheral>
[<partition>][<filepath>]
<adapter> ::= <adapter mnemonic>(<key>)
<controller> ::= <controller mnemonic>(<key>)
<peripheral> ::= <peripheral mnemonic>(<key>)
<partition> ::= partition([<number>])
<protocol> ::= tftp() | ripl() | console(0) | console(1)
<filepath> ::= <file system specific name>

Valid adapter, controller, and peripheral mnemonics are shown
in Table 4-3.

Class: Adapter
Type: SCSI
Mnemonic: scsi

Class: Adapter
Type: MultiFunction
Mnemonic: multi

Class: Controller
Type: Disk
Mnemonic: disk

Class: Peripheral
Type: Disk (rigid)
Mnemonic: rdisk

The initial portion of a path specification, up to and including the
peripheral specifier, specifies a top-down traversal of the system
configuration data structure, uniquely identifying a peripheral device.
This traversal is restricted to passing through adapter, controller,
and peripheral nodes only.

For example, consider a platform with a single integral SCSI adapter,
to which is connected a SCSI disk controller with a SCSI ID of 3,
and one disk attached to the controller. The path specification for
the disk would be:

scsi(0)disk(3)rdisk(0)

<quote>
from...
The Advanced RISC Computing Specification
http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/ARC/riscspec.pdf

Armed with that info, another example.

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0) would be a MultiFunction adapter with
a disk controller and one hard disk.

From my boot.ini:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

The Path is: Adapter\Controller\Peripheral\Partition\Filepath

multi(0) is a MultiFunction Adapter.
disk(0) is the Controller for the disk, a hard disk in this case
(rdisk denotes a hard disk).
rdisk(0) is the Peripheral, which is a hard disk.
partition(1) is the Partition on the hard disk.
WINDOWS is the Filepath.

<quote>
advanced RISC computing
A reduced instruction set computer (RISC)-based computer
architecture standard, associated with the ACE consortium.
Advanced RISC computing (ARC) machines include both
RISC- and CISC-based platforms, and supply the following
components to the operating system loader:
* On ACPI-compliant platforms, a set of machine firmware that
supports bootstrap loading and execution as an "abstracted"
set of ARC routines and ARC devices.
* On non-ACPI-compliant platforms, the NT-based operating
system provides a hardware recognizer (Ntdetect) that detects
the necessary devices to bootstrap the system. Ntdetect queries
the ROM BIOS and builds a hardware database that emulates
the RISC-based ARC firmware.
* On both kinds of platforms, a HAL that interfaces between the
hardware and the system.

Device drivers for certain types of devices create an alias
between the names of their device objects and the corresponding
ARC device name by calling IoAssignArcName.

reduced instruction set computer (RISC)
A type of microprocessor design that focuses on rapid and efficient
processing of a relatively small set of instructions. RISC architecture
limits the number of instructions that are built into the microprocessor,
but optimizes each so it can be carried out very rapidly.
<quote>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d..._bc4c2a9d-b9a3-44b8-b8b6-aa43027008d3.xml.asp

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

 

[Guest]

28 JUL 06 / WIN XP GEN

Thanks again Wesley! This is a real treasure trove. The rest of the follow
up below your reply is also v. interesting. Saved this whole thread again so
can review later.

Right now trying to help another friend with other urgent (portable pc)
problem. I'm going to have to stop this or never get to properly study up on
all that good info you and other MVP's provided here. Hopefully soon.

Sure appreciate.

--
Ted...

Here are a few more articles, Ted. I just happened to have them here,
handy.

HOW TO: Edit the Boot.ini File in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=289022

REST SNIPPED FOR BREVITY...

 

[Wesley Vogel]

I appreciate the description that you supply - it does

give historical perspective - but it still begs the question:
"What does "rdisk(1)" and "rdisk(2)" and rdisk(3)"
mean versus "rdisk(0)"? My posting, linked above,
explains this.

rdisk(0) is normally reserved for the boot drive's address.

Only IDE and related controllers support master/slave disk configurations.

Typical non SCSI motherboards have two IDE controllers. Primary and
Secondary. Each controller has two channels "0 or Master" and "1 or slave".
The "rdisk" value relates as follows:

rdisk(0) is Primary Controller channel 0 (Master)
rdisk(1) is Secondary Controller channel 0 (Master)
rdisk(2) is Primary Controller channel 1 (Slave)
rdisk(3) is Secondary Controller channel 1 (Slave)

Every thing that I look at uses words like normally, most or tries to, etc.
Seems to be a lot of exceptions to whatever rules.

Then there's...

<quote>
You have a standard motherboard which can support four EIDE devices. Each
is either configured as channel 0 master, channel 0 slave, channel 1 master,
or channel 1 slave. The path always looks like
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(SOMETHING)partition(partition-number) and you now know
about partition numbers -- so what's the value of SOMETHING? What would the
drive configured as channel 1 slave be -- 2, 3, or 4? Well, it seems to
depend. I've configured a number of systems with different amounts of EIDE
drives, and this is what I think rdisk() is doing when it numbers drives.

First, the boot drive must be configured as the channel 0 master on most
systems. (I'm weaseling with "most" because some motherboards have very
flexible BIOSes and let you mess with this in CMOS. But most seem not to.)
That is always rdisk(0).

Next, the system -- NTDETECT.COM, I suppose -- looks on channel 1 for any
hard disk, master or slave. That is rdisk(1).

Then it returns to channel 0 and looks for a second hard disk, ignoring any
other kinds of drives -- a CD-ROM, burner, DVD, tape or the like will be
skipped. That will get the next rdisk value -- if it found a drive on
channel 1, then this second channel 0 drive will be rdisk(2). But if it
found no hard disks at all on channel 1, then the second drive on channel 0
will be rdisk(1).

Finally, if there is a second drive on channel 1, then it gets the next
rdisk() value. Summarized, you can figure out which rdisk() value applies
to each physical drive by noting which channels each drive is on, noting
only hard disks. Then use this:

* One hard disk only: rdisk(0).
* Two hard disks on channel 0, none on channel 1: master=rdisk(0),
slave=rdisk(1)
* One hard disk on channel 0, one on channel 1: channel 0 disk=rdisk(0),
channel 1 disk=rdisk(1)
* Two hard disks on channel 0, one on channel 1: channel 0 master=rdisk(0),
channel 0 slave=rdisk(2), channel 1 drive (slave or master)=rdisk(1)
* Two hard disks on channel 0, two on channel 1: channel 0 master=rdisk(0),
channel 0 slave=rdisk(2), channel 1 drive master=rdisk(1), channel 1
slave=rdisk(3)
<quote>
http://www.minasi.com/newsletters/nws0110.htm

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

That was unfair. It isn't Microsoft's deal anyway.

Maybe. I spent more than 6 weeks telephoning and
emailing various technical people at Phoenix Technologies,
publisher of the Intel/Dell BIOS (and many other BIOSes).
They maintained that the meaning of "rdisk()" was
determined by Microsoft. (Which I consider to be only
partly true since ntldr only uses what the BIOS makes
available to it in using "rdisk(x)" to refer to a particular
hard disk drive.

I just learned this.

r stands for rigid. So, rdisk is the physical hard disk.

"r" may have stood for "rigid" in the deep dark past
when a PC had only one hard disk, but now a more
meaningful mnemonic would be "relative disk" since
it expresses the relative position of a hard disk drive
in the HD boot order. See the posting by me with
subject line "meaning of "rdisk()" in boot.ini file" in
alt.sys.pc-clone.dell in January of 2006:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt....2a9f0?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#173931e294f2a9f0

I appreciate the description that you supply - it does
give historical perspective - but it still begs the question:
"What does "rdisk(1)" and "rdisk(2)" and rdisk(3)"
mean versus "rdisk(0)"? My posting, linked above,
explains this.

*TimDaniels*

fdisk is a FloppyDisk. Where f is for floppy.

This just in.

<quote>
Path Specifications
Devices, device partitions, and files are denoted textually by
path specifications. A path specification is an ISOLatin1
character string with the following format:

<path> ::= <adapter>...<controller><peripheral>
[<partition>][<filepath>]
<adapter> ::= <adapter mnemonic>(<key>)
<controller> ::= <controller mnemonic>(<key>)
<peripheral> ::= <peripheral mnemonic>(<key>)
<partition> ::= partition([<number>])
<protocol> ::= tftp() | ripl() | console(0) | console(1)
<filepath> ::= <file system specific name>

Valid adapter, controller, and peripheral mnemonics are shown
in Table 4-3.

Class: Adapter
Type: SCSI
Mnemonic: scsi

Class: Adapter
Type: MultiFunction
Mnemonic: multi

Class: Controller
Type: Disk
Mnemonic: disk

Class: Peripheral
Type: Disk (rigid)
Mnemonic: rdisk

The initial portion of a path specification, up to and including the
peripheral specifier, specifies a top-down traversal of the system
configuration data structure, uniquely identifying a peripheral device.
This traversal is restricted to passing through adapter, controller,
and peripheral nodes only.

For example, consider a platform with a single integral SCSI adapter,
to which is connected a SCSI disk controller with a SCSI ID of 3,
and one disk attached to the controller. The path specification for
the disk would be:

scsi(0)disk(3)rdisk(0)

<quote>
from...
The Advanced RISC Computing Specification
http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/ARC/riscspec.pdf

Armed with that info, another example.

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0) would be a MultiFunction adapter with
a disk controller and one hard disk.

From my boot.ini:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

The Path is: Adapter\Controller\Peripheral\Partition\Filepath

multi(0) is a MultiFunction Adapter.
disk(0) is the Controller for the disk, a hard disk in this case
(rdisk denotes a hard disk).
rdisk(0) is the Peripheral, which is a hard disk.
partition(1) is the Partition on the hard disk.
WINDOWS is the Filepath.

<quote>
advanced RISC computing
A reduced instruction set computer (RISC)-based computer
architecture standard, associated with the ACE consortium.
Advanced RISC computing (ARC) machines include both
RISC- and CISC-based platforms, and supply the following
components to the operating system loader:
* On ACPI-compliant platforms, a set of machine firmware that
supports bootstrap loading and execution as an "abstracted"
set of ARC routines and ARC devices.
* On non-ACPI-compliant platforms, the NT-based operating
system provides a hardware recognizer (Ntdetect) that detects
the necessary devices to bootstrap the system. Ntdetect queries
the ROM BIOS and builds a hardware database that emulates
the RISC-based ARC firmware.
* On both kinds of platforms, a HAL that interfaces between the
hardware and the system.

Device drivers for certain types of devices create an alias
between the names of their device objects and the corresponding
ARC device name by calling IoAssignArcName.

reduced instruction set computer (RISC)
A type of microprocessor design that focuses on rapid and efficient
processing of a relatively small set of instructions. RISC architecture
limits the number of instructions that are built into the microprocessor,
but optimizes each so it can be carried out very rapidly.
<quote>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d..._bc4c2a9d-b9a3-44b8-b8b6-aa43027008d3.xml.asp

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

 

[Timothy Daniels]

You've totally ignored the referenced post of January, 2006.
It explains the meaning of "rdisk()", at least as it pertains to
PATA hard drives. Since you apparently don't like clicking
on links, let me reiterate briefly:

"rdisk()" is the parameter in the ARC paths that occurs in
the boot.ini file which the WinXP/2k/NT boot loader (ntldr)
uses to find the hard drive from which to load the OS. The
other parameters, e.g. "partition()", "disk()", "multi()" are
adequately described in this thread and many other places.

Whether the BIOS allows the HD boot order (as opposed to
the *device* boot order) to be adjusted by the user or not, the
"x" in "rdisk(x)" refers to the relative position of the HD in that
HD boot order starting with "0" - which is the head position in
that order (i.e. top boot priority). The *default* HD boot order,
assuming PATA HDs, is as follows (which contradicts the
quoted reference that you give):

Master, IDE channel 0,
Slave, IDE channel 0,
Master, IDE channel 1,
Slave, IDE channel 1.

The above are called by Microsoft the "ordinal positions of the
hard drives on the controller" or a phrase of similar vagueness.
This means that if there is a HD jumpered (or cabled) as Master
on ch. 0, it will be identified as "rdisk(0)". If there is no HD in the
Master mode on ch. 0, the Slave HD on ch. 0 will be identified
as "rdisk(0)", etc. Once "rdisk(0)" is identified, the next existing
HD in the HD boot order will be given the identity "rdisk(1)", etc.

This means that if you have 2 HDs in the system, positioned as
Slave on ch. 0 and Master on ch. 1, the Slave on ch. 0 will be
"rdisk(0)", and the Master on ch.1 will be "rdisk(1)".

Then, at boot time, when ntldr spots "rdisk(1)" in the ARC path
of the option that is selected from the boot.ini menu (either by
default or by keyboard input), ntldr goes to the HD that is 2nd
in the HD boot order - in the above example, the Master on the HD
on IDE ch. 1. Then it goes to the partition on that HD which was
given in the "partition()" parameter of the ARC path, then it goes
to the folder named in the ARC path to find the OS. (An interesting
fact is that the partition containing the OS - as opposed to the
partition containing the boot files - can be a logical drive inside
an Extended partition. For partiton numbering which includes
Extended partitions, the Primary partitions are numbered before
any of the logical drives in an Extended partition.)

But complexity rears its head when the user changes the BIOS's
HD boot order. What happens when the HD boot order is no
longer the *default* HD boot order, i.e. no longer:
Master, ch. 0,
Slave, ch. 0,
Master, ch. 1,
Slave, ch. 1?

Answer: The meaning of "rdisk()" follows the HD boot order!

In other words, the user, by adjusting the HD boot order in the
BIOS, can control which HD the "rdisk()" parameter refers to -
that is, the meaning of "x" in "rdisk(x)".

And no, "rdisk(0)" does NOT identify the "boot HD" - the HD
which supplies the boot files. The BIOS's HD boot order does
that, and the BIOS just goes down that order until it finds a HD
with a valid MBR, and then the BIOS just passes control to
that MBR.

Then the executable logic in the MBR looks for the Primary
partition that is marked "active" on its HD and passes control
to the executable logic in the Boot Sector in that Primary partition.
The Boot Sector then finds ntldr inside its partition and passes
control to ntldr, which references the boot.ini file, and THEN
"rdisk()" takes on meaning when ntldr uses it.

In the case of SATA HDs, the *default* HD boot order just
follows the numbering of the SATA channels. If there is a mix
of PATA and SATA channels, the numbering for "rdisk()"
has been seen to spill over from PATA drives to SATA drives,
at least for one BIOS tested. That is, with both types of
controllers active, the *default* HD boot order for 2 PATA
HDs and 2 SATA HDs is:
Master, PATA channel,
Slave, PATA channel,
SATA channel 0,
SATA channel 1.

As noted in my January, 2006, posting, my extensive
experiments were done with a Phoenix Technologies
BIOS in a Dell XPS-R Dimension desktop PC. I have
heard of BIOSes which do not allow the user to adjust
the HD boot order, yet those BIOSes appear to set up
data structures for ntldr which make ntldr's interpretation
of "rdisk()" to follow the same scheme as my Dell PC's
Phoenix BIOS.

*TimDaniels*

:

I appreciate the description that you supply - it does
give historical perspective - but it still begs the question:
"What does "rdisk(1)" and "rdisk(2)" and rdisk(3)"
mean versus "rdisk(0)"? My posting, linked above,
explains this.

rdisk(0) is normally reserved for the boot drive's address.

Only IDE and related controllers support master/slave disk
configurations.

Typical non SCSI motherboards have two IDE controllers.
Primary and Secondary. Each controller has two channels
"0 or Master" and "1 or slave".
The "rdisk" value relates as follows:

rdisk(0) is Primary Controller channel 0 (Master)
rdisk(1) is Secondary Controller channel 0 (Master)
rdisk(2) is Primary Controller channel 1 (Slave)
rdisk(3) is Secondary Controller channel 1 (Slave)

Every thing that I look at uses words like normally, most or
tries to, etc. Seems to be a lot of exceptions to whatever rules.

Then there's...

<quote>
You have a standard motherboard which can support four EIDE
devices. Each is either configured as channel 0 master,
channel 0 slave, channel 1 master, or channel 1 slave. The path
always looks like
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(SOMETHING)partition(partition-number)
and you now know about partition numbers -- so what's the value
of SOMETHING? What would the drive configured as
channel 1 slave be -- 2, 3, or 4? Well, it seems to depend. I've
configured a number of systems with different amounts of EIDE
drives, and this is what I think rdisk() is doing when it numbers drives.

First, the boot drive must be configured as the channel 0 master
on most systems. (I'm weaseling with "most" because some
motherboards have very flexible BIOSes and let you mess with
this in CMOS. But most seem not to.) That is always rdisk(0).

Next, the system -- NTDETECT.COM, I suppose -- looks on
channel 1 for any hard disk, master or slave. That is rdisk(1).

Then it returns to channel 0 and looks for a second hard disk,
ignoring any other kinds of drives -- a CD-ROM, burner, DVD,
tape or the like will be skipped. That will get the next rdisk value --
if it found a drive on channel 1, then this second channel 0 drive
will be rdisk(2). But if it found no hard disks at all on channel 1,
then the second drive on channel 0 will be rdisk(1).

Finally, if there is a second drive on channel 1, then it gets the
next rdisk() value. Summarized, you can figure out which rdisk()
value applies to each physical drive by noting which channels
each drive is on, noting only hard disks. Then use this:

* One hard disk only: rdisk(0).
* Two hard disks on channel 0, none on channel 1:
master=rdisk(0), slave=rdisk(1)
* One hard disk on channel 0, one on channel 1:
channel 0 disk=rdisk(0), channel 1 disk=rdisk(1)
* Two hard disks on channel 0, one on channel 1:
channel 0 master=rdisk(0), channel 0 slave=rdisk(2),
channel 1 drive (slave or master)=rdisk(1)
* Two hard disks on channel 0, two on channel 1:
channel 0 master=rdisk(0), channel 0 slave=rdisk(2),
channel 1 drive master=rdisk(1), channel 1 slave=rdisk(3)
<quote>
http://www.minasi.com/newsletters/nws0110.htm

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

That was unfair. It isn't Microsoft's deal anyway.

Maybe. I spent more than 6 weeks telephoning and
emailing various technical people at Phoenix Technologies,
publisher of the Intel/Dell BIOS (and many other BIOSes).
They maintained that the meaning of "rdisk()" was
determined by Microsoft. (Which I consider to be only
partly true since ntldr only uses what the BIOS makes
available to it in using "rdisk(x)" to refer to a particular
hard disk drive.

I just learned this.

r stands for rigid. So, rdisk is the physical hard disk.

"r" may have stood for "rigid" in the deep dark past
when a PC had only one hard disk, but now a more
meaningful mnemonic would be "relative disk" since
it expresses the relative position of a hard disk drive
in the HD boot order. See the posting by me with
subject line "meaning of "rdisk()" in boot.ini file" in
alt.sys.pc-clone.dell in January of 2006:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt....2a9f0?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#173931e294f2a9f0

I appreciate the description that you supply - it does
give historical perspective - but it still begs the question:
"What does "rdisk(1)" and "rdisk(2)" and rdisk(3)"
mean versus "rdisk(0)"? My posting, linked above,
explains this.

*TimDaniels*

fdisk is a FloppyDisk. Where f is for floppy.

This just in.

<quote>
Path Specifications
Devices, device partitions, and files are denoted textually by
path specifications. A path specification is an ISOLatin1
character string with the following format:

<path> ::= <adapter>...<controller><peripheral>
[<partition>][<filepath>]
<adapter> ::= <adapter mnemonic>(<key>)
<controller> ::= <controller mnemonic>(<key>)
<peripheral> ::= <peripheral mnemonic>(<key>)
<partition> ::= partition([<number>])
<protocol> ::= tftp() | ripl() | console(0) | console(1)
<filepath> ::= <file system specific name>

Valid adapter, controller, and peripheral mnemonics are shown
in Table 4-3.

Class: Adapter
Type: SCSI
Mnemonic: scsi

Class: Adapter
Type: MultiFunction
Mnemonic: multi

Class: Controller
Type: Disk
Mnemonic: disk

Class: Peripheral
Type: Disk (rigid)
Mnemonic: rdisk

The initial portion of a path specification, up to and including the
peripheral specifier, specifies a top-down traversal of the system
configuration data structure, uniquely identifying a peripheral device.
This traversal is restricted to passing through adapter, controller,
and peripheral nodes only.

For example, consider a platform with a single integral SCSI adapter,
to which is connected a SCSI disk controller with a SCSI ID of 3,
and one disk attached to the controller. The path specification for
the disk would be:

scsi(0)disk(3)rdisk(0)

<quote>
from...
The Advanced RISC Computing Specification
http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/ARC/riscspec.pdf

Armed with that info, another example.

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0) would be a MultiFunction adapter with
a disk controller and one hard disk.

From my boot.ini:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

The Path is: Adapter\Controller\Peripheral\Partition\Filepath

multi(0) is a MultiFunction Adapter.
disk(0) is the Controller for the disk, a hard disk in this case
(rdisk denotes a hard disk).
rdisk(0) is the Peripheral, which is a hard disk.
partition(1) is the Partition on the hard disk.
WINDOWS is the Filepath.

<quote>
advanced RISC computing
A reduced instruction set computer (RISC)-based computer
architecture standard, associated with the ACE consortium.
Advanced RISC computing (ARC) machines include both
RISC- and CISC-based platforms, and supply the following
components to the operating system loader:
* On ACPI-compliant platforms, a set of machine firmware that
supports bootstrap loading and execution as an "abstracted"
set of ARC routines and ARC devices.
* On non-ACPI-compliant platforms, the NT-based operating
system provides a hardware recognizer (Ntdetect) that detects
the necessary devices to bootstrap the system. Ntdetect queries
the ROM BIOS and builds a hardware database that emulates
the RISC-based ARC firmware.
* On both kinds of platforms, a HAL that interfaces between the
hardware and the system.

Device drivers for certain types of devices create an alias
between the names of their device objects and the corresponding
ARC device name by calling IoAssignArcName.

reduced instruction set computer (RISC)
A type of microprocessor design that focuses on rapid and efficient
processing of a relatively small set of instructions. RISC architecture
limits the number of instructions that are built into the microprocessor,
but optimizes each so it can be carried out very rapidly.
<quote>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d..._bc4c2a9d-b9a3-44b8-b8b6-aa43027008d3.xml.asp

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User