ATI makes false claims on HDCP support.............. !!

[John Lewis]

Hopefully those who have recently bought X1900 cards and other
ATi products claiming to be "HDCP-ready" will never ever need this
feature. HDCP requires a HARDWARE decrytion-key not present
in ANY of ATi's so-called "HDCP-ready" products; there is NO
software fix. ATi conveniently omitted to pay the required license
fees and include the hardware, but still were quite happy to
advertise a non-existent feature. Seems as if ATi Marketing continue
to divorce themselves from reality, with regard to ghost product
announcements and now..... ghost features !! About time somebody
there got fired............

This is a whole lot worse than drivers tweaked for optimal benchmark
performance. Seems like a very sound basis for a class-action suit.
Looks as if ATi needs to recall and offer full refunds to any customer
unhappy with the situation.

ATI is now quietly removing all references to "HDCP-ready" from their
"literature". I would suggest that any current owners of the so-called
"HDCP-ready" products take a quick snapshot of the published
specs before the "HDCP-ready" reference disappears !!

For more detailed information on the problem, see:-

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=851

and the various linked references from this article.

John Lewis

 

[redTed]

****ing snip<

Could you please just post these silly tirades to the relevant newsgroups.

alt.geeky.nvidia.fanboy , should do the trick.

 

[Clas Mehus]

Hopefully those who have recently bought X1900 cards and other
ATi products claiming to be "HDCP-ready" will never ever need this
feature. HDCP requires a HARDWARE decrytion-key not present
in ANY of ATi's so-called "HDCP-ready" products; there is NO
software fix. ATi conveniently omitted to pay the required license
fees and include the hardware, but still were quite happy to
advertise a non-existent feature. Seems as if ATi Marketing continue
to divorce themselves from reality, with regard to ghost product
announcements and now..... ghost features !! About time somebody
there got fired............

This is a whole lot worse than drivers tweaked for optimal benchmark
performance. Seems like a very sound basis for a class-action suit.
Looks as if ATi needs to recall and offer full refunds to any customer
unhappy with the situation.

ATI is now quietly removing all references to "HDCP-ready" from their
"literature". I would suggest that any current owners of the so-called
"HDCP-ready" products take a quick snapshot of the published
specs before the "HDCP-ready" reference disappears !!

For more detailed information on the problem, see:-

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=851

and the various linked references from this article.

I'm not sure ATI talks about their GPUs or own-branded boards. As for
the GPU, this can be OK, but it is up to the manufacturer of a board,
e.g. Asus, MSI etc. to include the technology that is needed in
addition to the GPU. For all now this is a matter of cost. Company X
will look at Company Y -- if they don't have it, neither will the
other.

So, ATI *can* claim that their GPUs are ready for this technology.
They should advice their partners to include the technology. On the
other hand, information given on the GPU itself can easily be taken as
information related to all products that use the GPU...

For many the introduction of this technology will bring problems. Lots
of problems. For ordinary people this will be very hard to understand.
I think in the end we baiscly all lose :-\

 

[johns]

What is HDCP ? If it is at all related to HDR, and the Shaders,
and all the rest of the so-called "improvements" that are no
longer being developed for PC gamers, then I don't blame them
for not paying the fees for something that they will not be able
to market. I blame it squarely on the Xbox 360 which is taking
over the game market, and has captured the development of
so-called 250 new games. Now we are heading for PC games
on Vista, but is this HDCP ready for that ?? All I see is a big
putting on of the brakes by companies deciding which market
to support.

johns

 

[John Lewis]

I'm not sure ATI talks about their GPUs or own-branded boards. As for
the GPU, this can be OK, but it is up to the manufacturer of a board,
e.g. Asus, MSI etc. to include the technology that is needed in
addition to the GPU. For all now this is a matter of cost. Company X
will look at Company Y -- if they don't have it, neither will the
other.

Nothing to do with the ATi GPUs themselves at all. The HDCP key-logic
silicon is external to the GPU.

It is the claims made on behalf of the ATi-built BOARDS and those
from their "board-partners" that are under scrutiny. It seems as if
some of their "partners" replicated the ATi claims without independent
technical scrutiny. Many board-partners just make their own versions
of Ati's reference-designs with little or no functional change, except
for memory choices and overclock-selection, thus there would be no
triggering reason for a separate technical review of an ATi claim
that has nothing to do with such trivial partner-specific changes.

ATi is now scurrying to fix their claims, at least on their web-sites.

How long the 3rd-parties take to fix their specs is up to them. But a
significant quantity of product has already been shipped attached to
this false claim. I wonder how many of the retail boxes have
HDCP-ready claims in the printed box-art or attached stickers ??

John Lewis

 

[John Lewis]

Could you please just post these silly tirades to the relevant newsgroups.

An ATi subject should surely be posted to an ATi newsgroup ?

Ostrich reaction ?

alt.geeky.nvidia.fanboy , should do the trick.

Doesn't exist, but I did cross-post to the nVidia videocard newsgroup.

Happy now ?

John Lewis

 

[First of One]

Yada yada yada. It's not like anyone bought an X1900 for its HDCP
features...

 

[John Lewis]

What is HDCP ? If it is at all related to HDR, and the Shaders,
and all the rest of the so-called "improvements" that are no
longer being developed for PC gamers, then I don't blame them
for not paying the fees for something that they will not be able
to market. I blame it squarely on the Xbox 360 which is taking
over the game market, and has captured the development of
so-called 250 new games. Now we are heading for PC games
on Vista, but is this HDCP ready for that ?? All I see is a big
putting on of the brakes by companies deciding which market
to support.

johns

High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection.

See the article and the first link in the article. Plus Google is your
friend for lots of extra information.

( http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=851)

Vista will fully support HDCP.

John Lewis




(

 

[William]

I wish everybody would just refuse to purchase any hardware or software that
has this technology in it. That will make the studios pushing this crap
onto the consumer stop this insanity.

Anyone ever here of fair-use laws? If I want to make a copy to archive and
run off of a copy for every day use, its my business. If I want to run a
video cable to a second TV in my house, its my business. No one has the
right to tell me otherwise. I bout the hardware / software, IT BELONGS TO
ME!

The digital copyright laws are a farce. The professionals get around all
this stuff. It's like locks on doors - it only keeps honest people honest,
the pros just work through the locks. Only the small guy is inconvietced.
If you don't believe it, go to Taiwan or China, boot-leg is all over the
place, sometimes before the titles are released in the USA - go figure.

Not only is the Blue-Ray or HD player required to have a chip, so is the
computer, graphics card, and the monitor. And lets not forget the regional
codes on the software itself. All this can mess up the data feed and cause
the system to fall back to less-than-paid-for quality. What a joke.

Anyone care to bet how long it takes before crackers are available on the
net to circumvent all of this stuff?

What a waste.

Bill

Give me my VHS tape recorder.

 

[kevin weaver]

I wish everybody would just refuse to purchase any hardware or software
that has this technology in it. That will make the studios pushing this
crap onto the consumer stop this insanity.

Anyone ever here of fair-use laws? If I want to make a copy to archive
and run off of a copy for every day use, its my business. If I want to
run a video cable to a second TV in my house, its my business. No one has
the right to tell me otherwise. I bout the hardware / software, IT
BELONGS TO ME!

The digital copyright laws are a farce. The professionals get around all
this stuff. It's like locks on doors - it only keeps honest people
honest, the pros just work through the locks. Only the small guy is
inconvietced. If you don't believe it, go to Taiwan or China, boot-leg is
all over the place, sometimes before the titles are released in the USA -
go figure.

Not only is the Blue-Ray or HD player required to have a chip, so is the
computer, graphics card, and the monitor. And lets not forget the
regional codes on the software itself. All this can mess up the data feed
and cause the system to fall back to less-than-paid-for quality. What a
joke.

Anyone care to bet how long it takes before crackers are available on the
net to circumvent all of this stuff?

What a waste.

Bill

Give me my VHS tape recorder.

You might want to read the statement on software CD&DVD that you buy. You
don't own the software.
Just the right to use it.

In some area's, You cant split off the end of the cable to feed another TV.
In my area, It's free. But a friend in another town has to pay 1.50 a month
for the other feed which is just split from the one line.

 

[John Lewis]

I wish everybody would just refuse to purchase any hardware or software that
has this technology in it. That will make the studios pushing this crap
onto the consumer stop this insanity.

Anyone ever here of fair-use laws? If I want to make a copy to archive and
run off of a copy for every day use, its my business. If I want to run a
video cable to a second TV in my house, its my business. No one has the
right to tell me otherwise. I bout the hardware / software, IT BELONGS TO
ME!

The digital copyright laws are a farce. The professionals get around all
this stuff. It's like locks on doors - it only keeps honest people honest,
the pros just work through the locks. Only the small guy is inconvietced.
If you don't believe it, go to Taiwan or China, boot-leg is all over the
place, sometimes before the titles are released in the USA - go figure.

Not only is the Blue-Ray or HD player required to have a chip, so is the
computer, graphics card, and the monitor. And lets not forget the regional
codes on the software itself. All this can mess up the data feed and cause
the system to fall back to less-than-paid-for quality. What a joke.

Anyone care to bet how long it takes before crackers are available on the
net to circumvent all of this stuff?

What a waste.

Bill

Give me my VHS tape recorder.

I entirely sympathise with your sentiments. However, the posting
was not on the subject of HDCP's highly-detested virtues (??). It
was on the subject of ATi claiming to have a feature critically
important (whether we like it or not) to 'legitimate' high-quality
HDTV playback from copy-protected disks.The hardware elements
enabling that feature are literally not there on any of their product
claimed to be "HDCP ready" and are totally impossible to retrofit.

John Lewis

 

[Tsunami]

While strolling carefully through the minefield that is Usenet, on
Sat, 18 Feb 2006 08:57:10 GMT, (e-mail address removed) (John Lewis)
wrote:

I entirely sympathise with your sentiments. However, the posting
was not on the subject of HDCP's highly-detested virtues (??). It
was on the subject of ATi claiming to have a feature critically
important (whether we like it or not) to 'legitimate' high-quality
HDTV playback from copy-protected disks.The hardware elements
enabling that feature are literally not there on any of their product
claimed to be "HDCP ready" and are totally impossible to retrofit.

John Lewis

However, ATI are not the only company claiming to have HDCP built into
their cards, Nvidia also claim this, and their cards are just the
same. Fact is, if you want HDCP, you are going to have to wait until
versions of the cards come out with it enabled. I hear that there are
NO plans to release a patch that will enable it in any of the current
cards on the market.
Wish you had waited before buying that x1900 crossfire system now?

 

[Quaestor]

You might want to read the statement on software CD&DVD that you buy. You
don't own the software.
Just the right to use it.

You might want to look around at the numerous relevant legal findings.
When I buy something I own it, and no sealed tear-open "license" has any
legal effect.

 

[Bill Kraski]

Hopefully those who have recently bought X1900 cards and other
ATi products claiming to be "HDCP-ready" will never ever need this
feature. HDCP requires a HARDWARE decrytion-key not present
in ANY of ATi's so-called "HDCP-ready" products; there is NO

Of course it's not there. If you buy a TV that's "HD ready", will it have a
HD tuner? No. You have to add a tuner/receiver card or box & connect it to
the TV. And the TV will display those HD inputs. If you buy a TV that
says it is "HD capable", then you expect a HD tuner built in & would
rightly have a gripe if it wasn't there. ATI didn't say the card is "HDCP
capable", just "HDCP ready". So, you either find the right
hardware/software to make use of the feature or wait till one comes out.
Just because ATI's marketing department took advantage of pointing out a
feature that there may be no way to use is irrelevant. The possibility is
still there to use external decryption & have the ATI card accept the
incoming signal.

Bill K

 

[William]

I hope no manufacturer of video cards or computer monitors put the required
hardware/software in their units to be HDCP compliant. Put the screws on
the consortium that backs this insanity (Movie Studios). PC use of movies
is a LARGE CHUNK of the movie industry, put some weight behind abandoning
this insanity. Thanks Microsoft - chasing after the
all-mighty-nothing-else-matters money.

I am already upset that I can't (easily) copy my DVD's to my hard disk for
easy access. WHY CAN'T I. It's an obvious feature to be able to. Why am I
restricted from using the full potential of my computer. I don't give away
copies of videos, never have. Why am I being penalized for the major
boot-leg companies that have cracked the codes and are making copies anyway?
It will happen even with this new HDCP standard. WHY DO THE LITTLE GUYS
ALWAYS GET SHAFTED over something the big guys have the resources to
circumvent? This is insanity. Think of the costs, mess-ups, compatibility
issues, lost connivances.

These movie / sound studios are living in the past. They are shooting
themselves in the foot. Eventually they will go to far, some competition
will offer a more versatile format, and the consumer will flock away from
this insane restriction-prone method of distribution. I realize that the
vast majority of consumers don't have a clue on what is going on, but -ease
of use- is a big selling point, and this HDCP is not a -ease of use- system.
I can just hear it. "My $4000.00 plasma TV looks like crap on my Blue-ray
player I just purchased - what's with that?"

Anyways, you can see I have strong opinions on this topic. Always the
little guy getting it in the end for the criminals, money-makers.

Bill.

 

[J. Clarke]

You might want to look around at the numerous relevant legal findings.
When I buy something I own it, and no sealed tear-open "license" has any
legal effect.

You own the media, not the content. This is very well established in law.

 

[Quaestor]

Quaestor wrote:




You own the media, not the content. This is very well established in law.

I own the content. This is very well established in law. I cannot
replicate it in a way which defames the COPYRIGHT owner, or costs them a
sale, etc, but I own the stuff.

But you go ahead and chase your tail for a while, repeating what you
want to believe. It's funny watching you.

 

[T Shadow]

I own the content. This is very well established in law. I cannot
replicate it in a way which defames the COPYRIGHT owner, or costs them a
sale, etc, but I own the stuff.

But you go ahead and chase your tail for a while, repeating what you
want to believe. It's funny watching you.

Your the one disagreeing with common knowledge. The onus is on you to prove
your point otherwise your just wasting your keystrokes and our time.

 

[Knight37]

You own the media, not the content. This is very well established in
law.

No, it's not well established. At all.

 

[kevin weaver]

Your the one disagreeing with common knowledge. The onus is on you to
prove
your point otherwise your just wasting your keystrokes and our time.

Thanks for the backup.