Athlon XP / 64

[Jim]

At what point do you feel the price difference / price performance
shifts in favor of the Athlon 64?

With each, where is the best bang for the bucks in a retail box
configuration? With so many cores this seems quite complicated.

Background thought: I'll be upgrading from an Athlon XP 1700. Don't
have any specific need for 64 bit but am willing to go that route if
future trends warrant. Only real reason at the moment to upgrade is
unresolved problems with random lockups that appear to be hardware
based. At this point the memory and hard drives come up clean with
diagnostic testing. System is nearly 4 years old.

 

[johns]

There is a program I use for disk imaging called Power
Quest Drive Image 2001 - 2002. On my Athlon 1800,
I could do a 30 gig disk image in about 12 hours. I can
now do the same 30 gig image on my AMD 64 3000+
in about 30 minutes. Also, with my ATI 9600XT in
the old box, 3DMark2001 would bench at about
9000. Now the same bench on the '64 with an ATI 9800
is 19000. So , even a very low end '64 will be a super
good PC in every respect. My system is about 1 year
old, and is the GA-K8NS mobo with AMD 64 3000+
and 1 gig ddr400. Video is AGP with ATI Radeon 9800
Pro. Look at that bundle at mwave.com. Also, note
that one step up to the 939 version of the same mobo
will also be compatible with the new dual core '64.
That is the mobo that I recommend.

johns

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

There is a program I use for disk imaging called Power
Quest Drive Image 2001 - 2002. On my Athlon 1800,
I could do a 30 gig disk image in about 12 hours. I can
now do the same 30 gig image on my AMD 64 3000+
in about 30 minutes. Also, with my ATI 9600XT in
the old box, 3DMark2001 would bench at about
9000. Now the same bench on the '64 with an ATI 9800
is 19000.

How can an Athlon 1800 system take 12 hours to copy 30GB when my lowly
450 MHz Celeron system with Promise ATA-100 HD controller can back up
over twice as much data in just a few hours?

 

[johns]

How can an Athlon 1800 system take 12 hours to copy 30GB when my lowly
450 MHz Celeron system with Promise ATA-100 HD controller can back up
over twice as much data in just a few hours?

Easy. There ain't no way you've got 60 gigs of data
on anything. Putting that obvious fact aside, you next
refer to a disk image as a backup ... Now, backup
programs are much much slower than disk imaging
programs, so you are essentially claiming that your
system would do a disk image of 60 gigs in about
1 hour. So you are claiming that your 450 Celeron
would run dead even with my AMD 64. And finally,
I don't really recall ( I could be wrong here ) .. but
did they ever make a 450 Celeron? So, kid Tell
me. What is the maximum setting you can use to
run Far Cry on your computer? Frame rate? And
what kind of PCI video card do you have. Seagate
2000 maybe ? Hint: 66 mhz .. think "front side bus"
.... as opposed to ddr400 ( about a factor of 8x ), and
add 1 gig ram and SATA ( another factor of 10x ) and
you'll begin to get the picture.

johns

 

[Conor]

Easy. There ain't no way you've got 60 gigs of data
on anything.

How do you know?

Putting that obvious fact aside, you next
refer to a disk image as a backup

It is.

... Now, backup
programs are much much slower than disk imaging
programs,
Bullshit.

And finally,
I don't really recall ( I could be wrong here ) .. but
did they ever make a 450 Celeron?

Ever heard of overclocking, ****wit?

So, kid Tell
me. What is the maximum setting you can use to
run Far Cry on your computer? Frame rate? And
what kind of PCI video card do you have. Seagate
2000 maybe ? Hint: 66 mhz .. think "front side bus"
... as opposed to ddr400 ( about a factor of 8x ), and
add 1 gig ram and SATA ( another factor of 10x ) and
you'll begin to get the picture.

Clueless ****.

 

[Foul-stinking corgi gut]

Crippled come-on boy needs stocky arse-leech with pile-driving prick to
enforce heartless arse ****.

 

[Ruel Smith]

At what point do you feel the price difference / price performance shifts
in favor of the Athlon 64?

With each, where is the best bang for the bucks in a retail box
configuration? With so many cores this seems quite complicated.

Background thought: I'll be upgrading from an Athlon XP 1700. Don't have
any specific need for 64 bit but am willing to go that route if future
trends warrant. Only real reason at the moment to upgrade is unresolved
problems with random lockups that appear to be hardware based. At this
point the memory and hard drives come up clean with diagnostic testing.
System is nearly 4 years old.

Personally, I usually set a price point and buy the fastest processor I can
for my budget. I usually stay around $250 for a processor. Anything more is
not enough processor for my money.

Right now the Athlon 64 is actually cheaper than the Athlon XP. I can get an
Athlon XP 3200+ for $245 retail. I can get an Athlon 64 3500+ for $267
retail. It's a no brainer. The cost of the motherboard is non-issue these
days too, as you can get very nice ones for the Athlon 64 for about the same
cost as an Athlon XP board.

However, in your case, I might investigate the reason for your random
lockups, and possibly get just another XP processor to upgrade your system.
I suspect it's power supply related, but you might want to run memtest86 and
maybe some other diagnostics to see if everything else is up to snuff. I'd
try and swap the power supply. What manufacturer/model is it? How many amps
does the +12V line supply? Are the lockups just a recent phenomenon? Did you
add anything like a new graphics card or new drive? Could it be OS related?
Have you tried a fresh install of Windows? What about drivers? Did you
update some drivers recently?

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

Easy. There ain't no way you've got 60 gigs of data

This is an 80GB HD, and it definitely has over 60GB of data -- your
momma posed for a LOT of pictures, as everybody knows, except maybe you
and your daddy.

Putting that obvious fact aside, you next refer to a disk
image as a backup ... Now, backup programs are much much
slower than disk imaging programs, so you are essentially
claiming that your system would do a disk image of 60 gigs
in about 1 hour.

Prove that I said anything about the type of the backup. It was
file-by-file, done with an older version of Norton Ghost PE (displays
each file name during its backup, lots of random seeks consistent with
file copy rather than image copy). I also never claimed that 60GB took
"about 1 hour". It was more like 4-5 hours for all three partitions,
and this is consistent with Ghost showing the transfer rate being about
250MB/minute during the backup.

So you are claiming that your 450 Celeron would run dead
even with my AMD 64.

I'm saying that 12 hours for 30GB is so slow that something must be
seriously wrong with your Athlon 64 system's HD setup. I'm not trying
to disparage your system. But on another matter. I'm sure that yours
is much bigger than mine -- that is what you're really worried about,
isn't it?

And finally, I don't really recall ( I could be wrong here )
.. but did they ever make a 450 Celeron? So, kid Tell
me. What is the maximum setting you can use to run Far Cry
on your computer?

My 450 MHz Celeron is an overclocked 300 MHz Slot 1 Celeron 300A. The
300A was famous for being very overclockable -- see
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/celeron566oc/ , but I was never able to
get reliable operation at 503 MHz or faster.

I don't have Far Cry or any other games.

 

[Phisherman]

At what point do you feel the price difference / price performance
shifts in favor of the Athlon 64?

With each, where is the best bang for the bucks in a retail box
configuration? With so many cores this seems quite complicated.

Background thought: I'll be upgrading from an Athlon XP 1700. Don't
have any specific need for 64 bit but am willing to go that route if
future trends warrant. Only real reason at the moment to upgrade is
unresolved problems with random lockups that appear to be hardware
based. At this point the memory and hard drives come up clean with
diagnostic testing. System is nearly 4 years old.

The AMD processors are now a much better value than Intel processors.
It makes sense to buy an Athlon 64 processor at this point because
O/Ses are now supporting it. The lastest AMD core is Venice, running
cooler than previous types. A larger cache in the CPU is always a
good thing, although that increases cost. When selecting a CPU, pay
careful attention to your motherboard/BIOS-upgrades making sure of
compatibility issues.

 

[Jason Woods]

When selecting a CPU, pay

careful attention to your motherboard/BIOS-upgrades making sure of
compatibility issues.

Another good reason to go AMD. You can plonk the new x2 right in any
old scoket 939 with a bios upgrade at most.

 

[Gert Elstermann]

Another good reason to go AMD. You can plonk the new x2 right in any
old scoket 939 with a bios upgrade at most.

Well, there are reports which say you can't - be careful.

Gert

 

[Jason Woods]

Well, there are reports which say you can't - be careful.

Could you point me in that direction? I already have a couple of 939 boards
and that's sucky news to me.

 

[Gert Elstermann]

Could you point me in that direction? I already have a couple of 939 boards
and that's sucky news to me.

Well, it seems that you cannot successfully plonk a x2 in "any old"
socket 939 board, see e.g.

<http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD0xMTcwJnVybF9wYWdlPTI=>

"While yes, all released Socket 939 core logic has no issue hosting a
dual-core X2-based processor, and indeed I've seen it running on more
than just the nForce4 SLI I tested with, the mainboard must support
the new processor's power requirements, both in terms of a voltage
regulation circuit and voltage range supply, but also in terms of
current draw with the correct componentry and implementation to
facilitate that.
That said, the vast majority of boards, especially those owned by the
people already invested in Socket 939 that'll have an immediate
interested and desire for an X2, will have no issues. The rule of
thumb is that if it supports any Socket 939 Athlon FX processor,
either 53 or 55, it'll support an X2. Their respective requirements
with regards to power provision and voltage are similar enough for
that to be the case. So if you've got a board that lists Athlon FX as
a supported CPU, look out for the required BIOS support from your
board's vendor."

So, it's the majority - not all boards.

HTH - Gert

 

[Jason Woods]

Well, it seems that you cannot successfully plonk a x2 in "any old"
socket 939 board, see e.g.

<http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD0xMTcwJnVybF9wYWdlPTI=>


"While yes, all released Socket 939 core logic has no issue hosting a
dual-core X2-based processor, and indeed I've seen it running on more
than just the nForce4 SLI I tested with, the mainboard must support the
new processor's power requirements, both in terms of a voltage
regulation circuit and voltage range supply, but also in terms of
current draw with the correct componentry and implementation to
facilitate that.
That said, the vast majority of boards, especially those owned by the
people already invested in Socket 939 that'll have an immediate
interested and desire for an X2, will have no issues. The rule of thumb
is that if it supports any Socket 939 Athlon FX processor, either 53 or
55, it'll support an X2. Their respective requirements with regards to
power provision and voltage are similar enough for that to be the case.
So if you've got a board that lists Athlon FX as a supported CPU, look
out for the required BIOS support from your board's vendor."

So, it's the majority - not all boards.

HTH - Gert

Thanks Gert

 

[Ed Medlin]

This is an 80GB HD, and it definitely has over 60GB of data -- your
momma posed for a LOT of pictures, as everybody knows, except maybe you
and your daddy.


Prove that I said anything about the type of the backup. It was
file-by-file, done with an older version of Norton Ghost PE (displays
each file name during its backup, lots of random seeks consistent with
file copy rather than image copy). I also never claimed that 60GB took
"about 1 hour". It was more like 4-5 hours for all three partitions,
and this is consistent with Ghost showing the transfer rate being about
250MB/minute during the backup.


I'm saying that 12 hours for 30GB is so slow that something must be
seriously wrong with your Athlon 64 system's HD setup. I'm not trying
to disparage your system. But on another matter. I'm sure that yours
is much bigger than mine -- that is what you're really worried about,
isn't it?


My 450 MHz Celeron is an overclocked 300 MHz Slot 1 Celeron 300A. The
300A was famous for being very overclockable -- see
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/celeron566oc/ , but I was never able to
get reliable operation at 503 MHz or faster.

Remember those well. 66mhz fsb at 100mhz. You needed a good AGP video card
to run at 89mhz on the AGP bus. You probably have a P2B MB or similar. Those
were the OCr's choice for a long time. Probably up until the P3 700b came
around and the 1g mark was being reached often with those. Ahhh......the
good ole days.


Ed

 

[David Maynard]

Remember those well. 66mhz fsb at 100mhz. You needed a good AGP video card
to run at 89mhz on the AGP bus.

No reason to run the AGP at 100 Mhz on a 100Mhz FSB motherboard as they
support the 2/3 divider and everything is in spec, except for the
overclocked celeron, of course.

That was part of the 'magic' to the Celeron 300A overclock to 450: it 'fit'
to a 'standard'.

You're probably thinking of trying to run 133Mhz FSB on a BX chipset.
*That* is when you'd run into the 89MHz AGP issue.

 

[Ed Medlin]

No reason to run the AGP at 100 Mhz on a 100Mhz FSB motherboard as they
support the 2/3 divider and everything is in spec, except for the
overclocked celeron, of course.

That was part of the 'magic' to the Celeron 300A overclock to 450: it
'fit' to a 'standard'.

You're probably thinking of trying to run 133Mhz FSB on a BX chipset.
*That* is when you'd run into the 89MHz AGP issue.

Yep.............Getting old is hell. I love the "good ole days"...........
Just can't remember them........

Ed

 

[David Maynard]

Yep.............Getting old is hell. I love the "good ole days"...........
Just can't remember them........

Hehe.

I think it's because in 'the good ole days' it took more than just slapping
a few settings in BIOS and off you go so there was more a sense of having
gamed the system and accomplishing something not 'just anyone' could do.

Probably also explains why I've got this 'never done it before' bur under
my saddle to design a tube amplifier.

 

[Ed Medlin]

Hehe.

I think it's because in 'the good ole days' it took more than just
slapping a few settings in BIOS and off you go so there was more a sense
of having gamed the system and accomplishing something not 'just anyone'
could do.

Probably also explains why I've got this 'never done it before' bur under
my saddle to design a tube amplifier.

This new P5GDC board says it all. It has "OC Profile" settings. Under that
catagory comes... 5% OC, 10% OC and so on up to 30%. All auto. It also has
settings for several CPU freqs and memory speeds. My DDR2 533 memory will
only do 613 without errors, so in that mode I can get something like 3.5+ g
out of the I-630 (3g) processor. I set it at a 20% auto OC and have left it
there at 3.6 and it works out well and keeps my memory at 600. It is just
too easy anymore...... There is a manual mode that I will dive into one
of these days and see what I can really get this to do and stay stable. I am
just not up to messing with it yet.............

Ed

 

[David Maynard]

This new P5GDC board says it all. It has "OC Profile" settings. Under that
catagory comes... 5% OC, 10% OC and so on up to 30%. All auto. It also has
settings for several CPU freqs and memory speeds. My DDR2 533 memory will
only do 613 without errors, so in that mode I can get something like 3.5+ g
out of the I-630 (3g) processor. I set it at a 20% auto OC and have left it
there at 3.6 and it works out well and keeps my memory at 600. It is just
too easy anymore...... There is a manual mode that I will dive into one
of these days and see what I can really get this to do and stay stable. I am
just not up to messing with it yet.............

Ed

Yep. That's what I meant, all right.