ATA, EIDE, UDMA - I dont get it

[MajBach1]

HI, all. I cannot figure this one out. I have: DFI MxBoard w/ Agp, 4xPCI
2xASI and 2xIDE-currently 80 pin cables. Also, 466 Celereon, 80 GB WD Caviar
7200 and 40 GB WD Caviar 7200 HDDs, LG DVD-8160B, LG CD/CDRW-8481.Current
config is 80 GB Primary Master, DVD Slave, 40 GB Sedcondary Master, CDRW
slave. Just by a fluke, the other day I noticed during the POST, the all
drives were in ATA 33. It's been awhile but was positive the HDDs were set
at ATA66. Using Western Digital software, I checked, and sure enough, they
were set at this. I fooled around with the Bios settings but failed to
figure out why they were posting at ATA33. Finally, it hit me - the optical
drives. Sure enough, when I unplugged them, the HDDs returned to ATA66.
Sheesh, been trying to figure out why the drives seemed to slow the past
several months.
SO, here's my question: What would you suggest as a configuration to keep
the drives at ATA66? I did some research and came up with some conflicting
info. I'm not to fluent in this terminology and one thing I do not
understand are the differences between modes. For example: whats the
difference between EIDE and ATA or UDMA? I read the manuals for the optical
drives ( considering that that are no where near as old as the rest of the
PC, I would think they could run at higher than ATA33 ), neither manual
states anything about ATA but it does say they are EIDE. Some of the reading
I did states that IEDE will run at any spec on the cable it is hooked up to.
SO why does it bring my HDDs down to ATA33? I also read [in the manual ]
that these optical drives should run on a 40 pin, not 80 pin cable? Why is
this? I have been running them both on 80 pin for two years with no apparent
problem.
The performance difference when the HDDs returned to ATA 66 was very
noticeable and I want to keep it that way. My smaller HDD is used primarily
as backup. Actually, I often keep it unplugged and power it on only when
needed because, since both drives are partitioned, when I do have the second
HD active, it screws up the drives letters on both so many programs
installed to my D: drive on my 80 GB now become the E: drive and so forth. I
liked the idea of keeping the HDDs separate to allow two-way communication.
However, if I need to use a 40 pin cable then obviously it will slow
whatever other drive is on it.

Guess this is what I really need to know:
Why do the optical drives slow down the HDDs?
Is there a way to keep one optical drive on each controller and have the
HDDs run at ATA66? ( DMA IS checked for ALL drives in device manager ).
Do I really need to use a 40 pin connector for optical drives?

Thanks a HEAP!
Majbach

 

[Pen]

The problem with some older mobos was that the IDE
chains ran at the speed of the slowest device. Later boards
it doesn't matter, each drive will run at its best speed.
Try moving the hard drives to one channel and the CDs
to the other. 80 pin cables are no problem even if
the drive doesn't have cable select. Don't forget
to re-strap the drives you move if you're not using
cable select.

HI, all. I cannot figure this one out. I have: DFI MxBoard w/ Agp,
4xPCI
2xASI and 2xIDE-currently 80 pin cables. Also, 466 Celereon, 80 GB WD
Caviar
7200 and 40 GB WD Caviar 7200 HDDs, LG DVD-8160B, LG
CD/CDRW-8481.Current
config is 80 GB Primary Master, DVD Slave, 40 GB Sedcondary Master,
CDRW
slave. Just by a fluke, the other day I noticed during the POST, the
all
drives were in ATA 33. It's been awhile but was positive the HDDs were
set
at ATA66. Using Western Digital software, I checked, and sure enough,
they
were set at this. I fooled around with the Bios settings but failed to
figure out why they were posting at ATA33. Finally, it hit me - the
optical
drives. Sure enough, when I unplugged them, the HDDs returned to
ATA66.
Sheesh, been trying to figure out why the drives seemed to slow the
past
several months.
SO, here's my question: What would you suggest as a configuration
to keep
the drives at ATA66? I did some research and came up with some
conflicting
info. I'm not to fluent in this terminology and one thing I do not
understand are the differences between modes. For example: whats the
difference between EIDE and ATA or UDMA? I read the manuals for the
optical
drives ( considering that that are no where near as old as the rest of
the
PC, I would think they could run at higher than ATA33 ), neither
manual
states anything about ATA but it does say they are EIDE. Some of the
reading
I did states that IEDE will run at any spec on the cable it is hooked
up to.
SO why does it bring my HDDs down to ATA33? I also read [in the
manual ]
that these optical drives should run on a 40 pin, not 80 pin cable?
Why is
this? I have been running them both on 80 pin for two years with no
apparent
problem.
The performance difference when the HDDs returned to ATA 66 was very
noticeable and I want to keep it that way. My smaller HDD is used
primarily
as backup. Actually, I often keep it unplugged and power it on only
when
needed because, since both drives are partitioned, when I do have the
second
HD active, it screws up the drives letters on both so many programs
installed to my D: drive on my 80 GB now become the E: drive and so
forth. I
liked the idea of keeping the HDDs separate to allow two-way
communication.
However, if I need to use a 40 pin cable then obviously it will slow
whatever other drive is on it.

Guess this is what I really need to know:
Why do the optical drives slow down the HDDs?
Is there a way to keep one optical drive on each controller and have
the
HDDs run at ATA66? ( DMA IS checked for ALL drives in device
manager ).
Do I really need to use a 40 pin connector for optical drives?

Thanks a HEAP!
Majbach

 

[MajBach1]

Thanks for that. Need you to clarify a couple of things. All drives have
cable select as an option. What should I set them at if I go with your
advice? Also, it's the manual that states to use 40 pin with the optical
drives - why is this?
Finally, re-strap?

The problem with some older mobos was that the IDE
chains ran at the speed of the slowest device. Later boards
it doesn't matter, each drive will run at its best speed.
Try moving the hard drives to one channel and the CDs
to the other. 80 pin cables are no problem even if
the drive doesn't have cable select. Don't forget
to re-strap the drives you move if you're not using
cable select.

HI, all. I cannot figure this one out. I have: DFI MxBoard w/ Agp,
4xPCI
2xASI and 2xIDE-currently 80 pin cables. Also, 466 Celereon, 80 GB WD
Caviar
7200 and 40 GB WD Caviar 7200 HDDs, LG DVD-8160B, LG
CD/CDRW-8481.Current
config is 80 GB Primary Master, DVD Slave, 40 GB Sedcondary Master,
CDRW
slave. Just by a fluke, the other day I noticed during the POST, the
all
drives were in ATA 33. It's been awhile but was positive the HDDs were
set
at ATA66. Using Western Digital software, I checked, and sure enough,
they
were set at this. I fooled around with the Bios settings but failed to
figure out why they were posting at ATA33. Finally, it hit me - the
optical
drives. Sure enough, when I unplugged them, the HDDs returned to
ATA66.
Sheesh, been trying to figure out why the drives seemed to slow the
past
several months.
SO, here's my question: What would you suggest as a configuration
to keep
the drives at ATA66? I did some research and came up with some
conflicting
info. I'm not to fluent in this terminology and one thing I do not
understand are the differences between modes. For example: whats the
difference between EIDE and ATA or UDMA? I read the manuals for the
optical
drives ( considering that that are no where near as old as the rest of
the
PC, I would think they could run at higher than ATA33 ), neither
manual
states anything about ATA but it does say they are EIDE. Some of the
reading
I did states that IEDE will run at any spec on the cable it is hooked
up to.
SO why does it bring my HDDs down to ATA33? I also read [in the
manual ]
that these optical drives should run on a 40 pin, not 80 pin cable?
Why is
this? I have been running them both on 80 pin for two years with no
apparent
problem.
The performance difference when the HDDs returned to ATA 66 was very
noticeable and I want to keep it that way. My smaller HDD is used
primarily
as backup. Actually, I often keep it unplugged and power it on only
when
needed because, since both drives are partitioned, when I do have the
second
HD active, it screws up the drives letters on both so many programs
installed to my D: drive on my 80 GB now become the E: drive and so
forth. I
liked the idea of keeping the HDDs separate to allow two-way
communication.
However, if I need to use a 40 pin cable then obviously it will slow
whatever other drive is on it.

Guess this is what I really need to know:
Why do the optical drives slow down the HDDs?
Is there a way to keep one optical drive on each controller and have
the
HDDs run at ATA66? ( DMA IS checked for ALL drives in device
manager ).
Do I really need to use a 40 pin connector for optical drives?

Thanks a HEAP!
Majbach

 

[MajBach1]

OK. Thanks for all the help so far. I still would like to know -if someone
can spare the time - what the difference is and the meaning of EIDE, ATA
etc.

Today, I farted around with the drives and got somewhere. Here's what I
found:

The HDDs ALWAYS post as ATA66 if they are single drives on the ribbon or
paired on the same ribbon.

The optical drives ALWAYS post as UDMA 33 - regardless of master, slave,
single, dual or jumper setting ( if they post at all).

What's I found interesting was, no combination of a HDD being on the master
slot of the 80 pin ribbon would post as ATA66 IF there was an optical drive
slaved on the same ribbon. Again, jumper setting made no difference.
HOWEVER, when the HDD was made a slave on the secondary ribbon and either
optical drive was the master on said ribbon, the optical still posted at
UDMA33 BUT the HDD now posted at ATA66!

Further, I then decided to try making the HDD on the Primary IDE cable a
slave ( used C.S.) and an optical drive the master. It posted as ATA66 and
UDMA 33 respectively ( good so far ), but I didn't think it would boot - but
it did? IS it true that the boot drive can be the slave on the primary cable
with an optical drive the master and still boot? I guess so in my case but
does this lead to any problems?
So, here is my present config:
Primary master = DVD
Primary slave = 80GB HDD
Secondary master = CDRW
Secondary slave = 40 GB HDD.

Both are showing 60 ATA. IS there any problem with this config?
Thanks a heap.... again

Majbach

HI, all. I cannot figure this one out. I have: DFI MxBoard w/ Agp, 4xPCI
2xASI and 2xIDE-currently 80 pin cables. Also, 466 Celereon, 80 GB WD Caviar
7200 and 40 GB WD Caviar 7200 HDDs, LG DVD-8160B, LG CD/CDRW-8481.Current
config is 80 GB Primary Master, DVD Slave, 40 GB Sedcondary Master, CDRW
slave. Just by a fluke, the other day I noticed during the POST, the all
drives were in ATA 33. It's been awhile but was positive the HDDs were set
at ATA66. Using Western Digital software, I checked, and sure enough, they
were set at this. I fooled around with the Bios settings but failed to
figure out why they were posting at ATA33. Finally, it hit me - the optical
drives. Sure enough, when I unplugged them, the HDDs returned to ATA66.
Sheesh, been trying to figure out why the drives seemed to slow the past
several months.
SO, here's my question: What would you suggest as a configuration to keep
the drives at ATA66? I did some research and came up with some conflicting
info. I'm not to fluent in this terminology and one thing I do not
understand are the differences between modes. For example: whats the
difference between EIDE and ATA or UDMA? I read the manuals for the optical
drives ( considering that that are no where near as old as the rest of the
PC, I would think they could run at higher than ATA33 ), neither manual
states anything about ATA but it does say they are EIDE. Some of the reading
I did states that IEDE will run at any spec on the cable it is hooked up to.
SO why does it bring my HDDs down to ATA33? I also read [in the manual ]
that these optical drives should run on a 40 pin, not 80 pin cable? Why is
this? I have been running them both on 80 pin for two years with no apparent
problem.
The performance difference when the HDDs returned to ATA 66 was very
noticeable and I want to keep it that way. My smaller HDD is used primarily
as backup. Actually, I often keep it unplugged and power it on only when
needed because, since both drives are partitioned, when I do have the second
HD active, it screws up the drives letters on both so many programs
installed to my D: drive on my 80 GB now become the E: drive and so forth. I
liked the idea of keeping the HDDs separate to allow two-way communication.
However, if I need to use a 40 pin cable then obviously it will slow
whatever other drive is on it.

Guess this is what I really need to know:
Why do the optical drives slow down the HDDs?
Is there a way to keep one optical drive on each controller and have the
HDDs run at ATA66? ( DMA IS checked for ALL drives in device manager ).
Do I really need to use a 40 pin connector for optical drives?

Thanks a HEAP!
Majbach

 

[chrisj9876]

40pin vs 80pin: It's really 40 or 80 conductors. The extra 40
conductors are all grounded and prevent cross-talk between the
signal-carrying conductors, which allows for higher speeds. The
connectors are 40 pin, regardless of the number of conductors. Optical
drives can use either. However if using an 80 conductor cable, the blue
connector must connect to the motherboard.

Re-strap refers to the jumper for master/slave/cable select. If not
using cable select, then one drive must be jumpered master, and the
other on the same cable for slave. If using cable select, then both
would be jumpered for cable select, and the one you want as master must
be on the black connector, the slave on the gray connector.

Regarding the drive letter shift you referred to: your 40gb drive
apparently has a primary partition on it. When Windows boots, drive
letters will be assigned in the following order: primary on drive 1,
primary on drive 2, then all logicals on drive 1, then all logicals on
drive 2. To avoid the shift you've seen, you'll need to change that
primary on the 40g to a logical. You can use Fdisk to do it, but you'll
lose whatever data is on it. If you have Partition Magic, it will
convert it without loss of data. Either way, you'll delete the existing
partition, then create a logical (an extended partition will be created
with the logical inside it).
Hope this helps.
Chris