ASUS A8N SLI Deluxe + Athlon64 3000+ Overclocking Woes!

[David Rasmussen]

In short: HT/FSB will not go above 225 MHz

Even if I underclock my memory using a divider and underclock the CPU
using a low multiplier, I can't get HT above 225 MHz without the system
freezing!

Since I am underclocking both memory and CPU, I guess none of these
could be at fault. Or what? I am using some really cheap and crappy
Elixir RAM (2x512MB in Dual Channel mode), but since I am underclocking
it I thought it wouldn't be an issue. But maybe it is?

Or is my system (motherboard I guess) just so crappy that HT wont go
above 225 MHz?

Can this be solved, or was I just unlucky with my motherboard, I got a
crap one?

/David

 

[paul berry]

In short: HT/FSB will not go above 225 MHz

Even if I underclock my memory using a divider and underclock the CPU
using a low multiplier, I can't get HT above 225 MHz without the system
freezing!

Since I am underclocking both memory and CPU, I guess none of these
could be at fault. Or what? I am using some really cheap and crappy
Elixir RAM (2x512MB in Dual Channel mode), but since I am underclocking
it I thought it wouldn't be an issue. But maybe it is?

Or is my system (motherboard I guess) just so crappy that HT wont go
above 225 MHz?

Can this be solved, or was I just unlucky with my motherboard, I got a
crap one?

/David

I also have a 3000+ but in an asus a8v deluxe board. I cant get past
220FSB before it crashes. Cant be the memory because i ran a divider
so the memory was well below 400mhz even at 220 HT/FSB. I think it
must be cooling, maybe i need better cooling.

 

[Wes Newell]

Or is my system (motherboard I guess) just so crappy that HT wont go
above 225 MHz?

Can this be solved, or was I just unlucky with my motherboard, I got a
crap one?

Setting the HT link multiplier lower will allow you to raise the system
clock past 225Mhz, and probably past 300MHz

 

[Paul]

I also have a 3000+ but in an asus a8v deluxe board. I cant get past
220FSB before it crashes. Cant be the memory because i ran a divider
so the memory was well below 400mhz even at 220 HT/FSB. I think it
must be cooling, maybe i need better cooling.

With A8V, one issue is whether you have revision 1 (no PCI lock)
or revision 2 (PCI lock). With no PCI lock, expect trouble above
227MHz or so (like you would expect on a K8V SE).

Wesley got the A8N-SLI up to 255MHz:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2358&p=5

Wesley got the A8V Rev2 up to 289MHz:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2128&p=5

Also, read a few review articles, and find out which ports and
what frequency choices cause disk corruption. Some SATA ports
are not locked, and can be lifted too high in frequency. When
doing the overclocking experiments, use a "disposable" boot
disk that can easily be restored from backups.

Paul

 

[Wes Newell]

I also have a 3000+ but in an asus a8v deluxe board. I cant get past
220FSB before it crashes. Cant be the memory because i ran a divider
so the memory was well below 400mhz even at 220 HT/FSB. I think it
must be cooling, maybe i need better cooling.

Just like the OP, you need to lower the HT link speed. The HT link speed
is determined by the HT link multiplier times the system clock (FSB
clock). Normal multiplier is 4 for 754 cpu's and 5 for 939 cpu's. That's
800MHz for the 754 and 1000MHz for the 939. The bios on my old 754 board
shows this as 400, 600, and 800MHz instead of by the divider number, but
it's the same thing, 400=2x, 600=3x, and 800=4x. On the 939 board you need
to lower it to a multiplier of 4 (800MHz) before overclocking the cpu. As
you know, you also need to lower the ram speed to keep your ram within
specs, and usually you'll need to raise vcore too if you are planning
much of an overclock. Since the memory data no longer goes over the FSB
(Ht Link), it's speed really isn't critical to system performance any
longer. You can set it to it's lowest settings without any noticable loss
of performance, but you will have to go down at least 1 notch. For the 939
system that would allow a system clock of 250MHz to get the HT link back
to it's mormal speed of 1000MHZ (4x250). If you plan on going to 266MHz or
more, set the HT link multiplier to 3x. Well, just do the math to keep the
HT link speed at or under 1000Mhz and you will be safe. My old 754 3000+
defualt speed is 2.0GHz, and my old 754 board has a max system clock
setting of 233MH and it's easy to get 233Mhz system clock for a cpu speed
of 2.33GHz. The default speed of the 3000+ 939 is 1.8 GHz (9x200) and it
should be easy to get at least 9*266 with it if done properly.

 

[Ed Light]

Maybe you used a n.5 multiplier? Like 8.5? Sometimes that does it.


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks, robots.

 

[dawg]

Setting the HT link multiplier lower will allow you to raise the system
clock past 225Mhz, and probably past 300MHz

Exactly right. I have a 754 board with a 2800+(1800mhz). With the HTT at x4
I could only get to 218. Lowered HTT to 3 and Mem to 166. Now crusing at 245
FSB, CPU shows 2225mhz!! Stock cooling too. Temps decent at low 50's. Still
it's kinda weird that at boot memory now reads 410. Overcking the A64 is a
bit weirder than the XP's.

 

[David Rasmussen]

With A8V, one issue is whether you have revision 1 (no PCI lock)
or revision 2 (PCI lock). With no PCI lock, expect trouble above
227MHz or so (like you would expect on a K8V SE).

In my case, the PCI lock is not a (big) problem. It is easy to lock the
PCI frequency on A8N, although choosing it in the BIOS isn't enough for
some reason. You also have to choose at least FSB 201 MHz before PCI
actually locks at 33 MHz. Weird, but true.

Still, it doesn't solve my problem.

/David

 

[David Rasmussen]

Just like the OP, you need to lower the HT link speed.

I guess I should have written that also, but I already tried that.

In short: Choosing to run with the lowest memory frequency (by using a
divider), choosing to run a low CPU frequency (by using a low
multiplier), and using a low HTT multiplier (1, 2, 3 and 4 tried) to get
a low FSB/HT/HTT/whatever, none of these helps. When the FSB reaches
appx. 225 MHz, the system crashes. Even if the HT is only running 4x225
= 900 MHz or lower at the time, the memory is running 186.75 MHz instead
of 200 MHz, the CPU is running 225*8 = 1800 MHz or lower, the system
STILL crashes.

The HT link speed
is determined by the HT link multiplier times the system clock (FSB
clock). Normal multiplier is 4 for 754 cpu's and 5 for 939 cpu's. That's
800MHz for the 754 and 1000MHz for the 939. The bios on my old 754 board
shows this as 400, 600, and 800MHz instead of by the divider number, but
it's the same thing, 400=2x, 600=3x, and 800=4x. On the 939 board you need
to lower it to a multiplier of 4 (800MHz) before overclocking the cpu. As
you know, you also need to lower the ram speed to keep your ram within
specs, and usually you'll need to raise vcore too if you are planning
much of an overclock. Since the memory data no longer goes over the FSB
(Ht Link), it's speed really isn't critical to system performance any
longer. You can set it to it's lowest settings without any noticable loss
of performance, but you will have to go down at least 1 notch. For the 939
system that would allow a system clock of 250MHz to get the HT link back
to it's mormal speed of 1000MHZ (4x250). If you plan on going to 266MHz or
more, set the HT link multiplier to 3x. Well, just do the math to keep the
HT link speed at or under 1000Mhz and you will be safe. My old 754 3000+
defualt speed is 2.0GHz, and my old 754 board has a max system clock
setting of 233MH and it's easy to get 233Mhz system clock for a cpu speed
of 2.33GHz. The default speed of the 3000+ 939 is 1.8 GHz (9x200) and it
should be easy to get at least 9*266 with it if done properly.

That's all well and good, but I already knew that

Now! Is there anything I can do? Or have I just been unlucky?

/David

 

[David Rasmussen]

Setting the HT link multiplier lower will allow you to raise the system
clock past 225Mhz, and probably past 300MHz

Unfortunately not, no

/David

 

[Wes Newell]

In short: Choosing to run with the lowest memory frequency (by using a
divider), choosing to run a low CPU frequency (by using a low
multiplier), and using a low HTT multiplier (1, 2, 3 and 4 tried) to get
a low FSB/HT/HTT/whatever, none of these helps. When the FSB reaches
appx. 225 MHz, the system crashes. Even if the HT is only running 4x225
= 900 MHz or lower at the time, the memory is running 186.75 MHz instead
of 200 MHz, the CPU is running 225*8 = 1800 MHz or lower, the system
STILL crashes.

The things I'd check here would be vcore (I ususally go to max to sart
with), Vdimm 2.6-2.7v, and the ram timings, or even lower the ram more to
start with. The PCI clock shouldn't cause a problem at this speed even if
it's not locked unless you have some very sensitive parts.

 

[David Rasmussen]

The things I'd check here would be vcore (I ususally go to max to sart
with),

Max? Like 1.6 or something? I think mine crashes already at 1.5 or
something like that.

Vdimm 2.6-2.7v, and the ram timings, or even lower the ram more to
start with. The PCI clock shouldn't cause a problem at this speed even if
it's not locked unless you have some very sensitive parts.

OK.

If all this doesn't help, which part should I replace to get a better
chance of overclocking? The CPU? The RAM? The motherboard? The PSU?

/David

 

[Wes Newell]

Max? Like 1.6 or something? I think mine crashes already at 1.5 or
something like that.

I upped mone from the default 1.5 to 1.7v (old hammer core).

If all this doesn't help, which part should I replace to get a better
chance of overclocking? The CPU? The RAM? The motherboard? The PSU?

There's nothing wrong with the ram from what I can tell. I highly doubt
the cpu is holding you to under 233 MHz. Might try a newer bios if there
is one.

 

[Pete M Williams]

In short: HT/FSB will not go above 225 MHz

Even if I underclock my memory using a divider and underclock the CPU
using a low multiplier, I can't get HT above 225 MHz without the system
freezing!

Since I am underclocking both memory and CPU, I guess none of these could
be at fault. Or what? I am using some really cheap and crappy Elixir RAM
(2x512MB in Dual Channel mode), but since I am underclocking it I thought
it wouldn't be an issue. But maybe it is?

Or is my system (motherboard I guess) just so crappy that HT wont go above
225 MHz?

Can this be solved, or was I just unlucky with my motherboard, I got a
crap one?

/David

Have you set your memory to 2T or is it running at 1T?
The MB has a known issue with high HTT settings not being able to run at 1T
when the memory is 1:1.
Asus know about the problem but as yet have not fixed it in any of the full
or beta BIOS's.

Just try changing the setting to see if this is a similar problem for you.

 

[David Rasmussen]

I upped mone from the default 1.5 to 1.7v (old hammer core).

Okay. Mine is a Winchester. It hangs when I go above 1.5 or something
like that.

There's nothing wrong with the ram from what I can tell. I highly doubt
the cpu is holding you to under 233 MHz. Might try a newer bios if there
is one.

I've tried version 1004, 1006 and 1007 (newest). No dice

So if I bought a new system with the same RAM, the same CPU, the same
motherboard, should I expect to be able to overclock more? And if so,
which part of my current system is at fault? And if not, why not? I want
to overclock my CPU, damnit! Everybody else is getting 2.4-2.6 GHz

/David

 

[David Rasmussen]

Have you set your memory to 2T or is it running at 1T?
The MB has a known issue with high HTT settings not being able to run at 1T
when the memory is 1:1.
Asus know about the problem but as yet have not fixed it in any of the full
or beta BIOS's.

Just try changing the setting to see if this is a similar problem for you.

I am sure I tried that, as I tried choosing the most conservative mem
settings. But I will try it again.

I am also interested in which part I should replace to actually be able
to overclock. CPU? MB? RAM? PSU?

/David

 

[Paul]

I am sure I tried that, as I tried choosing the most conservative mem
settings. But I will try it again.

I am also interested in which part I should replace to actually be able
to overclock. CPU? MB? RAM? PSU?

/David

I suggest you get a few tools, to help with your overclocking
project.

CPUZ is one tool (cpuid.org).
A64tweaker by CodeRed is another (memory timings):

http://www.akiba-pc.com/download.php?view.40
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37345

Look for the CG-NVNF4 version of "clockgen" here. Good
for verifying clock frequencies, and discovering your
RAM clock is way faster than you thought When your
FSB is 225, your RAM is 12.5% faster than the BIOS
reading says it is (and no, I don't have the board, just
read about it).

http://www.cpuid.org/clockgen.php

Maybe if you verify your settings in Windows, you'll get
some ideas...

HTH,
Paul

 

[David Rasmussen]

I suggest you get a few tools, to help with your overclocking
project.

CPUZ is one tool (cpuid.org).
A64tweaker by CodeRed is another (memory timings):

http://www.akiba-pc.com/download.php?view.40
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37345

Look for the CG-NVNF4 version of "clockgen" here. Good
for verifying clock frequencies, and discovering your
RAM clock is way faster than you thought When your
FSB is 225, your RAM is 12.5% faster than the BIOS
reading says it is (and no, I don't have the board, just
read about it).

http://www.cpuid.org/clockgen.php

Maybe if you verify your settings in Windows, you'll get
some ideas...

I have tried most of those tools and others. And indeed, they revealed
some things. For instance, the PCI 33 MHz lock in BIOS doesn't actually
work if you boot with 200 MHz FSB, and then adjust in Windows. You have
to set it to at least 201 MHz before the lock is effective in Windows.

But after figuring these things out, all those tools confirm that I run
with slow RAM, slow CPU, slow HTT and "high" (225) FSB/LDT and still
it's unstable. Going above 225 MHz just makes it worse.

NOW, EVERYBODY!

Assuming that I am in fact right, and that I have in fact set everything
properly and still can't go above 225 MHz, what would you do in my
place? Which part would you replace? The CPU? Mobo? RAM? PSU? Underpants?

/David

 

[Pete M Williams]

Paul wrote:

NOW, EVERYBODY!

Assuming that I am in fact right, and that I have in fact set everything
properly and still can't go above 225 MHz, what would you do in my place?
Which part would you replace? The CPU? Mobo? RAM? PSU? Underpants?

NOW, DAVID!

A few questions that need answering.

Can I ask what ratio's you have tried running your memory at?

You do know what the different DDR settings in the BIOS of the A8N represent
with respect to dividers don't you?

What RAM do you have?

You are not selecting the DDR setting in the BIOS that corresponds to your
RAM are you?

 

[David Rasmussen]

NOW, DAVID!

A few questions that need answering.

Can I ask what ratio's you have tried running your memory at?

All ratios below the stock speed. And the stock speed of course.

You do know what the different DDR settings in the BIOS of the A8N represent
with respect to dividers don't you?

I'm not sure what you mean here. I understand the divider. I don't fully
understand what "CAS Latency" is but I know where it and other similar
settings should be set according to the manufacturer of my memory. I
also tried a lot of different settings. Very conservative and slow
settings. Experimenting with 1T and 2T etc.
Didn't help.

What RAM do you have?

2x512MB Crappy Elixir RAM (DDR3200, CAS 3.0). But since I don't
overclock the RAM at all, I figure that this isn't important. But maybe
it is after all? Should I try better RAM, even though I don't plan to
overclock the RAM? According to the article on xtremesystems, mediocre
RAM shouldn't be a problem with A64, as long as you don't overclock the
RAM, just the processor (and LDT/FSB).

You are not selecting the DDR setting in the BIOS that corresponds to your
RAM are you?

I have tried that, yes. I have also tried the auto setting. I have also
experimented as mentionedd above.

As I stated earlier: Even when the RAM i running sloooowly at 150 MHz
instead of 200 MHz, and with relaxed timings etc., I _STILL_ can't get
LDT/FSB above 225 MHz. And yes, I verified with several software tools
that the memory was indeed running at the slow timings I selected.

I don't understand why you think my RAM is so important when I am not
trying to overclock that?

Now, again, assuming that I have done anything right and there is no way
to get above 225 MHz, which part of my system should I replace? If it
was the CPU clock that couldn't go higher than 2000 MHz, I'd say:
replace the CPU. If it was the RAM that couldn't go higher than 200 MHz,
I'd say: replace the RAM. Now, when it's the LDT/FSB that can't go very
far above it's stock 200 MHz, what do I replace? What part of the system
is responsible for the LDT/FSB? The Mobo? The CPU? The RAM?

/David