Asus A7V8X RAM :[

[Menas]

Hi everyone, this is my first time on the boards, and I did try to do a
search on this, but no luck...

First off, everytime I do a search for my problem i get results for the
A7V8X-X motherboard, meanwhile i have the A7V8X, (atleast im sure it
isn't the -X model)

OK so anyways, my problem...
I am trying to upgrade my computer to 1 gig of ram. I have 512 Elixir
pc2700 DDR-SDRAM.
The rest of the specs of the memory came from CPU-Z
Frequence: ~166.6 mhz
Timings: 2.5-3-3-7

Ok so basically i am trying to upgrade and i bought ram once before
from best buy called K-Byte, the guy told me it is what i am looking
for and I wasn't too sure. When i tried installing it, i was getting an
unstable system, where applications failed and system rebooted.

Then I sold that RAM to the pc-show that is in New Jersey.
Now recently I tried to give it another crack, I bought from newegg,
and I even tried to match the timings:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146217

After putting it in, I was getting same thing, where applications were
failing.
Now one of the people that bought this ram had the same motherboard and
said he switched the old RAM to the second slot and the new ram to the
1st slot. So then i tried this, and it was running smooth, until it
started to reboot automatically, i guess it was some sorta WPE that
shut it down idk. So then i tried just running the RAM by itself, and
still the same problems, then i ran MEMTEST and it was FILLED with
errors.

So now i am confused on what to do, I guess I could have exchanged it,
but I just didn't want to try and waste my time. I have searched the
groups and the google-web and nothing really came up about it.

If anyone has any suggestions on RAM i need or what I should od, or
anything, please help me out... Thank you in advance for any help :]
PC SPECS (that i think you might want to know:
AMD Athlon XP Thoroughbred Socket A @ ~2.08ghz
ASUS A7V8X VIA KT400 chipset

 

[Paul]

Hi everyone, this is my first time on the boards, and I did try to do a
search on this, but no luck...

First off, everytime I do a search for my problem i get results for the
A7V8X-X motherboard, meanwhile i have the A7V8X, (atleast im sure it
isn't the -X model)

OK so anyways, my problem...
I am trying to upgrade my computer to 1 gig of ram. I have 512 Elixir
pc2700 DDR-SDRAM.
The rest of the specs of the memory came from CPU-Z
Frequence: ~166.6 mhz
Timings: 2.5-3-3-7

Ok so basically i am trying to upgrade and i bought ram once before
from best buy called K-Byte, the guy told me it is what i am looking
for and I wasn't too sure. When i tried installing it, i was getting an
unstable system, where applications failed and system rebooted.

Then I sold that RAM to the pc-show that is in New Jersey.
Now recently I tried to give it another crack, I bought from newegg,
and I even tried to match the timings:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146217

After putting it in, I was getting same thing, where applications were
failing.
Now one of the people that bought this ram had the same motherboard and
said he switched the old RAM to the second slot and the new ram to the
1st slot. So then i tried this, and it was running smooth, until it
started to reboot automatically, i guess it was some sorta WPE that
shut it down idk. So then i tried just running the RAM by itself, and
still the same problems, then i ran MEMTEST and it was FILLED with
errors.

So now i am confused on what to do, I guess I could have exchanged it,
but I just didn't want to try and waste my time. I have searched the
groups and the google-web and nothing really came up about it.

If anyone has any suggestions on RAM i need or what I should od, or
anything, please help me out... Thank you in advance for any help :]
PC SPECS (that i think you might want to know:
AMD Athlon XP Thoroughbred Socket A @ ~2.08ghz
ASUS A7V8X VIA KT400 chipset

There is little difference between the A7V8X-X and the A7V8X. They
both use the KT400 Northbridge, and the Northbridge is what
drives the RAM modules.

Try placing the modules in slot 1 and slot 3. For two sticks
of RAM, those are the best slots. In the BIOS, set "DRAM voltage"
to [2.75V]. That will help make sure the DIMMs get enough
voltage.

You can also try testing the modules separately. Place one stick
at a time, into slot 3. Run memtest86+ (memtest.org) for a couple
of passes error free. If either stick will not pass when it is
by itself, consider returning the memory (if there is a warranty
on it).

Using two DIMMs is a heavier loading, but according to the
manual, the chipset can drive two double sided DIMMs at DDR333.

Post back your test results, (each stick individually, then
two sticks in slot 1 and slot3, with 2.75V applied) if you
are still having problems. Note which tests are returning errors,
as at least in some of the private forums, the test that is
failing has some (slight) diagnostic value. It could be,
that running Trcd at one higher than the normal setting,
might be enough to fix it. Use a copy of CPUZ from cpuid.com,
to see what timing the BIOS is currently using. If you need
to set the timing manually, use can use the values seen in CPUZ
as a starting point for the settings.

A final health test, is to run Prime95 (mersenne.org).
(Only run this, if you have passed Memtest86+, as if you
are failing Memtest86+, you'll fail Prime95 in a matter
of seconds.) This test runs in Windows, and is a tougher
test than Memtest86+. Use the "torture test" option, which
does a computation with a known answer, and it does lots of
memory read/write as part of the computation. It is really a
"proof of correctness" for your computer.

Paul

 

[Menas]

Well I can try putting one in the 1st slot and one in the 3rd slot, but
that doesn't explain why when I put the new ram in by itself, it failed
on installing windows xp (reformatting). Gave me the usual errors when
you have bad RAM or unmatching RAM. I will also try setting the
voltage to 2.75 just to try, but why would setting the voltage change
anything?

I did use memtest, and it was showing me failing addresses (just on the
new stick alone in the computer w/o the old one)

Please any more advice can be helpful as to either what RAM i should
buy that should just be able to install and run properly.

Thanks

 

[Menas]

*UPDATE*

I tried putting it in the third slot and it is VERY unstable,
everything was just failing, pc had to shut itself down.... PLEASE if
anyone can recommend what ram works for them or anything that can help
me... i need it :[
Thanks in advance

 

[Paul]

Well I can try putting one in the 1st slot and one in the 3rd slot, but
that doesn't explain why when I put the new ram in by itself, it failed
on installing windows xp (reformatting). Gave me the usual errors when
you have bad RAM or unmatching RAM. I will also try setting the
voltage to 2.75 just to try, but why would setting the voltage change
anything?

I did use memtest, and it was showing me failing addresses (just on the
new stick alone in the computer w/o the old one)

Please any more advice can be helpful as to either what RAM i should
buy that should just be able to install and run properly.

Thanks

Some RAM does better with a little more voltage. If the Mushkin
is made with some reject BH-6 chips for example, more voltage
might help.

The rated timing is 2.5-3-3-7, and you could enter the BIOS
and set the timing parameters manually.

SDRAM Configuration [User Defined]
SDRAM CAS Latency [2.5T] <--- Try 3
SDRAM RAS to CAS Delay [3T]
SDRAM RAS Precharge Delay [3T]
SDRAM Active Precharge Delay [7T]
SDRAM 1T Command Control [Auto]
SDRAM Bank Interleave [Auto]

If memtest86+ (memtest.org) reports the errors in the exact
same memory locations each time, that strongly suggests the
memory is bad and should be returned. Relaxing the timing a bit
(by increasing the numeric fields listed above) may help. It
helps to note which test is failing (like say just test 5,
or all tests are failing).

Mushkin RAM has a lifetime warranty, but only if the RAM
continues to be used in the original system it was installed
in. If you meet those requirements, maybe you can get them to
send you another stick, in place of the one you've got.
Depending on what the shipping cost is for that option,
and the time you've got to spend on this, may help you decide
whether that option is worth following up.

Asus sometimes provides a qualified memory list. These lists
from Asus are not too helpful, as the RAM is frequently out of
date or not available to buy.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030408011355/www.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=A7V8X&langs=09

Vendor Type Size Model

Samsung PC3200 512MB M368L6423DTM-CC4
Samsung PC3200 256MB M368L3223DTM-CC4
Kingston PC3200 512MB KVR400X64C25/512
Micron PC3200 256MB MT16VDDT3264AG-403B2 PC3200U-30440-Z
Micron PC3200 128MB MT8VDDT1664AG-403B2 PC3200U-30440-Z
Kingmax PC3200 256MB MPXB62D-68KX3-MBA

Micron RAM is the same thing as Crucial.
http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?model=A7V8X&tabid=AM

Try a stick of Crucial CT6464Z40B for $69. (I also see some
BL6464Z402 in the performance memory section of the Crucial
web page. That is CAS2 memory, which is very fast stuff.
I use that in a couple of my motherboards and didn't have any
trouble with it.

And stay away from the Best Buy I could not believe the
motley collection of memory brands at my local Best Buy.

Can I summarize your testing ?

1) You bought a stick of Elixir 512MB and it is perfectly error free.
2) You mixed Elixir 512MB with a stick of K-Byte 512MB and got errors.
You sold the K-Byte (so we don't know if the K-Byte worked error
free when it was alone in the computer).
3) You mixed Elixir 512MB with a stick of Mushkin 512MB and got errors.
The Mushkin throws errors in memtest86+ when installed in the
motherboard by itself.

Have you tested the Elixir by itself lately ? Is the Elixir still
error free ? I've had two sticks of RAM fail roughly a year after
buying them, so failures can still happen to RAM which was perfect
at first.

Also, what version of BIOS are you using ?

Paul

 

[Menas]

Your summary is correct, except the Elixir came with the computer when
I first built it.
You are definitely right about the collection at best buy, they're
terrible when it comes to this. I did try the elixir by itself (i have
had that ram for over 2 years now) and I ran memtest on it alone with
no other RAM in the motherboard and it was error free.

As for the BIOS, I just flashed it last night, and tried the RAM again,
and the system just shuts down seconds after it logs into windows.
Then i tried it one more time and ran cpu-z, and everything between the
two sticks matched then the system shut down lol.

I also tried every configuration from 1st slot to 3rd slot. I did push
the voltage up, as high as i can go and then as low as i can go and
then left it on auto and it still gave me errors.

There was one more thing i realized when reading my manual about
installing ram. It had this kind of chart but my question about the
chart is, what or why are they calling each slot, Rows 0&1, 2&3, 4&5.


DDR DIMM1 DDR DIMM2 DDR DIMM3
(Rows 0&1) (Rows 2&3) (Rows 4&5)
SS/DS SS/DS SS/DS
SS/DS SS/DS SS/DS

But I did just return the RAM today, and now i want to buy another one
(also im a little scared to buy one considering what happened twice
already hehe)
so hopefully next time I will make the right choice.

Also I talked to someone in my comp sci class, he told me that Micron
and Crucial (or was it Corsair) are actually the better RAM to buy, b/c
the other companies take the rejected RAM from micron and crucial. Is
this true?

Thank you so much Paul for ur help and the list of vendors to purchase
from, I did not think about that at all.

 

[Paul]

Your summary is correct, except the Elixir came with the computer when
I first built it.
You are definitely right about the collection at best buy, they're
terrible when it comes to this. I did try the elixir by itself (i have
had that ram for over 2 years now) and I ran memtest on it alone with
no other RAM in the motherboard and it was error free.

As for the BIOS, I just flashed it last night, and tried the RAM again,
and the system just shuts down seconds after it logs into windows.
Then i tried it one more time and ran cpu-z, and everything between the
two sticks matched then the system shut down lol.

I also tried every configuration from 1st slot to 3rd slot. I did push
the voltage up, as high as i can go and then as low as i can go and
then left it on auto and it still gave me errors.

There was one more thing i realized when reading my manual about
installing ram. It had this kind of chart but my question about the
chart is, what or why are they calling each slot, Rows 0&1, 2&3, 4&5.


DDR DIMM1 DDR DIMM2 DDR DIMM3
(Rows 0&1) (Rows 2&3) (Rows 4&5)
SS/DS SS/DS SS/DS
SS/DS SS/DS SS/DS

But I did just return the RAM today, and now i want to buy another one
(also im a little scared to buy one considering what happened twice
already hehe)
so hopefully next time I will make the right choice.

Also I talked to someone in my comp sci class, he told me that Micron
and Crucial (or was it Corsair) are actually the better RAM to buy, b/c
the other companies take the rejected RAM from micron and crucial. Is
this true?

Thank you so much Paul for ur help and the list of vendors to purchase
from, I did not think about that at all.

"Rows" refers to the two banks max of RAM that can be on a DIMM.
The JEDEC pinout for the DIMM, puts enough control signals to control
two 64 bit wide banks of memory. A double sided memory (DS) has two
separate banks of memory on it. The table above is basically
communicating, that there are no limits in terms of banks.

The reason for me mentioning "rejects", is you have to consider
for a moment, why a company gets into the "Value RAM" business.
In some cases, the Value RAM business is a "flow-thru" thing -
you buy third party RAM and stamp your name on it, making a buck
in the process. In other cases, Value RAM might consist of any
modules that did not make the cut as overclocker RAM. When smaller
companies offer Value RAM, they haven't a chance to compete on
price, with the big boys, so you have to ask yourself whether
they are just disposing of the RAM that didn't offer a high
overclock.

In all cases, a memory should meet its SPD speed rating, no
matter where it came off the production line. Customers have
noticed certain brands/models of RAM, that would not overclock
more than a few MHz - that is a symptom of carefully binned memory,
and if the overclock is that poor, it suggests there will be a
few customers who won't be able to run such a product error free
even at stock speed.

All I can suggest, is using Google or the search engines on the
private forums, to get some idea as to what the characteristics
of a certain brand/model of RAM might be. This is a laborious
research process, and whether it is worthwhile, really depends
on how easy it is to buy RAM where you live.

As for what channels the memory chips are taking, I don't have
any insider info on what scams are being pulled. Micron is a
semiconductor manufacturer. They also make modules, and they
should be knowledgeable on how to make them properly. Crucial
takes the Micron modules, and simply adds their sticker to the
module. There is no crossref table available, to map Micron module
part number to Crucial part number, but there are ways of
figuring it out (using pictures on Newegg).

Micron bins their DDR, and selects some of the better chips for
their Ballistix line. That would be in direct competition with
other companies wishing to use that same RAM to make CAS2
modules and the like. I don't know if Micron sells to these
small companies, just the unbinned chips (meaning they have to
sell both the good and the not-so-good chips), or supplies them
with binned chips.

The other class of chips, are the ones that fail all bins at
the factory. The memory chip maker may find some chips good
for making PC4000 memory, some others that just make PC3200,
and perhaps a small percentage that throw errors. No part
numbers are printed on these, and they may be sold to other
companies, to be sorted and used. You may notice that
"generic" memory modules, sometimes have no printing on the
chips, or some company name we have never heard of, is
printed on the tops of the chips. These are the kinds of
modules that you have to ask questions about - without
proper labelling on the top of the chip, there is no way
to know whether the chip was properly tested and binned
at the factory, or the chip is just one from the "scrap
pile". Personally, I think the selling of memory chip
"blanks" is a disreputable practice - if a memory is good
enough to sell, it is good enough to be labelled.

"A7V8X memory settings"
http://www.lostcircuits.com/discus/messages/5/1401.html?1098747072

"A7V8X Build Thread" -- this is a huge rambling thread
http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=157451&highlight=a7v8x+build+thread

Since some of my favorite search engines are failing
right now, no more searches for me at the moment.

Here is a setting I noticed in the manual just now:

"SDRAM 1T Command Control" [disabled] <--- more setup time
for memory address
if disabled.

HTH,
Paul

 

[Menas]

ok cool, thanks for the info, and that board... seems interesting...
someone else in a diff forum said something interesting.... maybe i
have a bad cap on my mobo? I did have a burn out 6 months ago, where my
psu just shorted out and i had to get a new video card(due to
burnholes) and psu.

Do you think that can have anything to do with it?

 

[Menas]

One more thing for the
"SDRAM 1T Command Control" mine is enabled, you're saying i should
disable then? B/c it gives it more time to setup what?

 

[Menas]

One more thing for the
"SDRAM 1T Command Control" mine is enabled, you're saying i should
disable then? B/c it gives it more time to setup what?

Also does the timings HAVE to match? Meaning if i have a
2.5-3-3-7 and i buy something slower or faster... will that effect it?
Should i also try matching timings
(which i did match on the second stick of ram, but i am just wondering
if it matters)

 

[Paul]

One more thing for the
"SDRAM 1T Command Control" mine is enabled, you're saying i should
disable then? B/c it gives it more time to setup what?

Also does the timings HAVE to match? Meaning if i have a
2.5-3-3-7 and i buy something slower or faster... will that effect it?
Should i also try matching timings
(which i did match on the second stick of ram, but i am just wondering
if it matters)

"SDRAM 1T Command Control" [disabled]

This option in the BIOS, seems to control "Command Rate", otherwise
known as Command Per Clock (CPC). If you were to set this to [disabled],
what that does is give extra time for the address info to be passed
to the memory. disabled = 2T command rate, enabled = 1T command rate.
Using the disabled setting should not be needed with one DIMM, but
may help if using two or three double sided DIMMs.

Using [disabled] will reduce your memory bandwidth, but it may also
help to reduce the errors seen when accessing the RAM.

Your motherboard has a single channel memory interface. The
memory speed and timing numbers do not have to match. The BIOS
is supposed to have the capability to work out which stick has
the slowest timing - that timing is then used to run the
whole channel. If you had a stick of 2-2-2-5 and a stick of
2.5-3-3-7, the BIOS will use 2.5-3-3-7 to run the motherboard.
If one stick is PC2700 and the other is PC2100, the BIOS should
evaluate the timing numbers for both sticks at PC2100 rate,
and then choose the slowest timing numbers w-x-y-z from the
computation.

There have been a few motherboards, where the BIOS algorithm
does not work properly. On some older motherboards, the
memory stick placed in slot 1 is considered first. If you
are having speed problems, sometimes swapping the order of
the (unmatched) DIMMs, makes a difference to the settings the
BIOS uses.

The best reason now for using matched DIMMs, is if you plan
on transitioning to a dual channel motherboard in the near
future. You might be able to reuse the RAM in a dual channel
motherboard if the sticks match - running in dual channel
mode can give a slight boost in application performance.

Paul