Assume ? What about OEM users?

[Don]

From: "Michael Solomon (MS-MVP Windows Shell/User)" <user@#notme.com>
Subject: Re: MSCONFIG,REGEDIT,NAV2002 disappear in a few seconds after
loading???
Date: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 1:45 PM

First, be sure your antivirus software has the latest definitions and run a
virus scan. With regard to NAV 2002, have you tried removing and
reinstalling it and checked www.symantec.com for an updates for the
application and then tried to run it?

Second, download, install and run Ad Aware:
www.lavasoftusa.com

As to your other issues:

If this is a relatively recent issue, you might try using System Restore to
take you back to a time when this worked properly. Start\All
Programs\Accessories\System Tools\System Restore. If that doesn't resolve
it, try the information below.
What about me and all those who have OEM? WE don't count eh?
Don and Discusted !!

The following assumes you have an actual XP CD as opposed to a restore CD or
restore partition supplied by your PC manufacturer.

Go to Start, type sfc /scannow in the run box and press enter. Note, there
is a space between sfc and the forward slash. You will be asked for your XP
CD. Be aware, upon inserting the CD the XP setup screen may appear, this is
not a part of sfc /scannow, rather it is being invoked by autorun. Simply
minimize the screen and allow sfc to continue.

If the above fails to resolve the issue, try a repair install as follows:

Be sure you are well backed up in case there is a problem from which you are
unable to recover. NOTE, while a repair install should leave your data
files intact, if something goes wrong during the repair install, you may be
forced to start over and do a clean install of XP. If you don't have your
data backed up, you would lose your data should that eventuality occur.

Assuming your system is set to boot from the CD-ROM drive, boot with the XP
CD in the drive. If it isn't or you are not sure, you need to enter the
system's BIOS. When you boot the system, the first screen usually has
instructions that if you wish to enter setup press a specific key, when you
see that, do so. Then you will have to navigate to the boot sequence, if
the CD-ROM drive is not first line, set it first in the boot sequence. Save
your settings and exit with the XP CD in the drive. The system will reboot.

Boot from the CD. If your system is set to be able to boot from the CD, it
should detect the disk and give a brief message, during the boot up, if you
wish to boot from the CD press any key.

Once you have pressed a key, setup should begin. You will see a reference
asking if you need to load special drivers and another notice that if you
wish to begin the ASR (Automatic Recovery Console) depress F2. Just let
setup run past all of that. It will continue to load files and drivers.

Then it will bring you to a screen. Eventually, you will come to a screen
with the option to (1) setup Windows or (2) Repair Windows Installation
using the Recovery console.

The first option, to setup Windows is the one you want and requires you to
press enter. When asked, press F8 to accept the end user agreement. Setup
will then search for previous versions of Windows. Upon finding your
version, it will ask if you wish to Repair your current installation or
install fresh. Press R, that will run a repair installation. From there
on, follow the screens.

 

[Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers]

Unfortunately, OEM users are stuck with the limitations of the systems they
purchased. Many do not include CD's, and many that do only include "restore"
disks. OEM's are only required to provide a means of restoring the system to
factory state. Basically, it boils down to money. The OEM's pay far less for
the version of Windows they supply the user with versus the regular retail
version that includes all the other capabilities.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Greetings --

It was _your_ choice to buy an OEM version from a company that
doesn't care about customer support. You probably saved a few dollars
by doing so.

Had you taken the time to shop around and/or do any product
research, you could have easily purchased an OEM license from a more
reputable company and received a true installation CD as part of your
purchase.


Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. - RAH

 

[Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP Windows Shell/User\)]

I've responded to you on the basics board where you took me to task.

 

[Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP Windows Shell/User\)]

I meant to say I responded in the original thread, MSCONFIG,REGEDIT,NAV2002
disappear in a few seconds after loading???

We are already on the basics board!

 

[Guest]

For your information, I have assembled many systems for
users and always supplied a legitimate, legal Microsoft
Windows XP OEM CD. I pay $140 for the disc and charge the
customer the same. I ALWAYS make an image of the system
as-is prior to delivery and either put it on CDs or an
extra hard drive on the user's system. To imply that all
people who supply OEM CDs are sub-human or doing a
disservice to the user is just plain wrong . . . it is not
possible to compete with the major system suppliers on
price but people who purchase systems from me can be
assured that the systems are free of the junk and trash-
software that vendors like D__l and others supply . . .
and my systems will always come with anti-spyware software
and be up-to-date (like TODAY) when it comes to the
security updates.

 

[D.]

Unfortunately, OEM users are stuck with the limitations of the systems they
purchased. Many do not include CD's, and many that do only include "restore"
disks. OEM's are only required to provide a means of restoring the system to
factory state. Basically, it boils down to money. The OEM's pay far less for
the version of Windows they supply the user with versus the regular retail
version that includes all the other capabilities.

Are you saying even now in 2004 there are still some manufacturers who
put Windows XP on a new computer but don't supply a recovery/install
disk(s)? These are called OEM versions, right? I just don't know
anyone who bought a new computer with XP installed on it & didn't get
a CD or CDs with it to re-install in case of a problem.

Then those are poor bastards indeed who buy a new computer and don't
get recovery CDs.. They must be buying from some real fly-by-night
operations.

....D.

 

[David Candy]

They get a recovery partition.

OEM sales are generally illegal under trade practises legislation. That's because most mfg sell a crippled version of something while claiming it's XP. That is misleading conduct. They are mostly too stupid to tick a few boxes in a wizard so you not only don't get a disk but it doesn't include all of XP.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Greetings --

You're over-reacting and taking Michael's statement way out of
context. No one implied that everyone who supplies a PC with an OEM
license is "sub-human." He simply stated that the OP is limited by
the business decisions of the specific OEM vendor whose product he
chose to purchase. Different OEM vendors provide different
restoration/recovery methods.

PC manufacturers who sell PCs with an OEM version of any Windows
operating system are required by their licensing agreement with
Microsoft to provide a means for the consumer to restore the PC to the
condition it was in when it left the factory or shop. The specific
means by which this "restoration" is to be accomplished is left
_entirely_ to the discretion of each OEM.

Some manufacturers, generally the same ones who use lower quality
components in their products, elect to provide no CDs at all, but
rather rely upon a hidden hard drive partition. HP and Compaq's
consumer products divisions (their business-class systems are a
different story) are well-known examples of this type manufacturer.
Other manufacturers provide a Restore or Recovery CD that contain a
proprietary image of the factory configured hard drive and that can be
used to return the PC to its ex-factory condition. A few respectable,
customer-service aware, consumer-class PC manufacturers, such as Dell
or Gateway, provide BIOS-locked, full installation CDs. To the best
of my knowledge, most independently owned and operated small systems
builders (the Mom & Pop type shops) must provide the generic OEM
installation CD which was used to perform the installation.

We all know that had the OP purchased his PC from you, or from any
of thousands of other such small, independent businesses, instead of
buying a mass-produced, off-the-shelf, PC from a retail or discount
outlet, he would have had the options he needed. Instead, he chose to
save a few dollars, and now he's paying the price of his "frugality."
It all boils down to: "You get what you pay for."


Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. - RAH

 

[David Candy]

In Australia he would have to pay MORE to not get a genuine CD. Small shops are cheaper than HP/IBM/Packard Bell/Compaq.

 

[Mike Powers]

I have seen it with recovery CD's, a recovery partition, and full
software copies and even a mix from a number of manufacturers/assemblers
and this continues today. I have even seen it where there is a coupon
or contact to get the recovery CD's, often for some nominal fee. A given
manufacturer may be using more than one scheme at the same time.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Greetings --

Really? That's good. Yet another reason to be attracted to "Oz."

Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. - RAH


In Australia he would have to pay MORE to not get a genuine CD. Small
shops are cheaper than HP/IBM/Packard Bell/Compaq.

 

[Greg]

Greetings --

Really? That's good. Yet another reason to be attracted to "Oz."

Bruce Chambers

IMO one should view the purchase of their first computer as similar to
losing one's virginity. It's not like you expected it to be, and usually
with the wrong person. Consider it a [hopefully not too expensive]
lesson learned, and become educated so you can be more properly
selective in the future.

That's how it was for me, anyway. My first computer was an Emerson 286
that died about a month after the warranty expired. First, and last, off
the shelf PC for me. No comment on the other matter.

Greg
If you can remember the 60's....you weren't really there

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

In

Are you saying even now in 2004 there are still some manufacturers who
put Windows XP on a new computer but don't supply a recovery/install
disk(s)? These are called OEM versions, right? I just don't know
anyone who bought a new computer with XP installed on it & didn't get
a CD or CDs with it to re-install in case of a problem.

Then those are poor bastards indeed who buy a new computer and don't
get recovery CDs.. They must be buying from some real fly-by-night
operations.

Unfortunately it's not just fly-by-night operations. OEM vendors
are required by their agreement with Microsoft to give you a
means of reinstalling, should it be necessary. They can do this
in one of three ways:


1. An OEM copy of Windows

2. A restore CD

3. A hidden partition on your drive, with restore information.



Choice number 3 is not uncommon. Personally, I find both 2 and 3
unacceptable, and would never choose to buy a computer that came
with an operating system unless I got a complete generic
installation CD for that operating system.

 

[Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP Windows Shell/User\)]

I think he was talking about Rick's post, Bruce. I didn't directly mention
the OEMs, only the OEM CDs. To anonymous, while OEM as a term encompasses
all system builders, Rick's post is largely aimed at the commercial builders
as opposed to shops. With shops you have a more intimate relationship with
the builder and often more options with regard to the type of disk you get.

Shops rarely provide a rescue disk that I'm aware and when the provide an
OEM version of the OS, it's the OEM disk usually provided with a hardware
purchase that is identical to the retail disk in terms of the tools that
offers.

My current computer and previous system were both shop built systems and I
expect my next system to be shop built as well. I find that much preferable
and more advantageous than the commercial manufacturer's with whom you have
no flexibility and who often don't provide an actual XP CD identical to the
retail version.

Thank you, Bruce, though as I mention above, I believe anonymous was
referring to Rick's post.

 

[Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP Windows Shell/User\)]

Unfortunately, even the second or third time buyer might be burned as well.
First, with 9x versions of Windows, if you had a DOS boot disk, you had all
the tools you needed, they didn't come with the recovery tools and routines
included on the XP CD.

A user needs to have had the experience and even if they did have the
experience, they might not understand the implications insofar as XP is
concerned because such customized versions or recovery CDs, usually lack the
repair tools of the retail version. My point is, even if they aren't a
first time buyer, unless they've had some experience in this regard, they
would not know to ask or even that such a situation exists.

We've often encountered such surprise from former Windows 9x users in these
groups.

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

Greetings --

Really? That's good. Yet another reason to be attracted to "Oz."

Bruce Chambers

IMO one should view the purchase of their first computer as similar to
losing one's virginity. It's not like you expected it to be, and usually
with the wrong person. Consider it a [hopefully not too expensive]
lesson learned, and become educated so you can be more properly
selective in the future.

That's how it was for me, anyway. My first computer was an Emerson 286
that died about a month after the warranty expired. First, and last, off
the shelf PC for me. No comment on the other matter.

Greg
If you can remember the 60's....you weren't really there

 

[Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP Windows Shell/User\)]

It's quite common today for a user to buy PC from a commercial manufacturer,
HP, Compaq, Emachines, IBM and find they were only given a recovery
partition. While that is all that is required of OEMs, if the hard drive
fails, then the user has no means of recovery, can't replace the hard drive
themselves or if they do replace the hard drive on their own, they then must
also purchase the OS as well.

 

[Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers]

Indeed, I was referring to the large OEM's, as most legit small dealers will
take better care of their clients. The big guys don't give a hoot for the
most part, but the small guys want to ensure repeat business.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

 

[Guest]

=====================================================
"Choice number 3 is not uncommon. Personally, I find both 2 and 3
unacceptable, and would never choose to buy a computer that came
with an operating system unless I got a complete generic
installation CD for that operating system."
=====================================================
Hi Ken,
Unfortunately, some of us, as first time buyers, are not given that information by retailers. What you are saying is no doubt correct, in hindsight!
J.J.