ASR Restore (XP Install) fails to recognize RAID driver

[Guest]

The context of this priblem is NT Backup Automated System Recovery (ASR)
Restore, but this may actually be a problem with XP Pro (w SP1) Install. If
I should post this question to a different Newsgroup, please let me know.

Monday night my C: drive was trashed. I have no idea how or why. Tuesday
morning, system would not boot. Luckily, I have an ASR backup from the
beginning of October and a Full backup from Saturday night / Sunday morning.

A complication is that the C: drive is actually a SATA RAID 1 (two 36Gb,
RAID 1,
running off an Intel 82801ER controller on the motherboard). I worked with
the hardware supplier (Voodoo) and confirmed that there is nothing wrong with
the hardware. Please do accept this as a given; we confirmed and verified
using three different mechanisms.

Tried to do the ASR Restore using the following procedure.
1. Booted from XP Pro (w SP1) Install CD
2. When prompted, pressed F6 (to specify that I had a RAID driver)
3. When prompted, preseed F2 (to request an ASR Restore)
4. When prompted, inserted the ASR diskette
5. When prompted, pressed "S" and inserted Driver diskette
6. When prompted, re-inserted the ASR diskette
When Windows Setup entered the ASR Recovery procedure, it did NOT "see" the
C: drive SATA RAID. Instead, it wanted to target, and wipe, the undamaged D:
drive.

Neither the originally installed driver, nor an updated one (both from
Intel) would
work. Also, the problem is NOT limited to the ASR procedure. If I try to
run a
straight XP Pro install (by booting from the XP Pro with SP1 CD), hit F6 and
provide the driver diskette, XP Pro fails to "see" the C: drive SATA RAID
and wants
to install to the undamaged D: drive.

We did try many other things, so please ask if you need more information.
Current
situation is that I've restored from the originally delivered disaster
recovery CDs
(Symantec Ghost - from over two years ago). I am now able to boot from the
C:
drive. But the C: drive content is hopelessly outdated. Managed to restore
enough
data to find my ids and passwords, but the C: drive is a bit of a mess right
now.

The good news is that, after booting, I checked both the D: drive (which
contains
most but not ALL application data) and an external hard drive (which
contains the
NT Backup files). Both of these other drives appear to be fine. The NT
Backup
files are okay.

I would prefer to do an ASR Restore to rebuild the C: drive, so that all
files are
as synchronized as possible. However, if there is a better way, please let
me
know. Again, I have:
- NT Backup ASR backup file from 10/6/05.
- MT Backup Full (inclusiding System State) backup file from 10/16/05.

How should I proceed?

Jim Maher

 

[Guest]

Your post is a few days old. Did you ever recover from this problem?

 

[Guest]

No, the question has not been answered.

Current situation is that I have rebuilt the C: drive (the system volume,
which is actually a RAID1 array). I restored the original disaster recovery
CDs and reapplied all changes from there.

The question remains "Is NTBACKUP ASR a reliable recovery mechanism?". The
current answer I have is "No, definitely not. Do NOT allow clients to rely
on it!"

I've had a lot of input from many other sources. Anecdotally, I heard of
three others who have had a virtually identical problem, tried to resolve it,
and eventually gave up. Several work-arounds have been suggested (the most
promising was to slipstream the RAID drivers with an XP SP1 installation CD).

However, I am not currently interested in work-arounds. Right now, I need
to know if ASR is reliable - as documented. If not (and that IS my current
conclusion), I need to spread the word that people should stop relying upon
it. I hate to do that, but people must be able to trust their recovery
procedure absolutely.

If, from my original description, you can tell me what I did wrong, please
do. I'll find a way to test the revised procedure and adjust client
procedures accordingly.

For now, I'm evaluating other backup vendors. It is not going to be fun
telling clients they can't rely on Microsoft.

Jim

 

[Guest]

OK. I'm going to go WAY out on a limb here, but in your original post you
mentioned that after the C drive failed the system would not boot. For me
that is a red flag with regards to which type of RAID is installed on the
computer, software or hardware.
Second, you mentioned that you trouble shot the mainboard/controller with
the manufacturer and verified it to be in good working order. I Googled the
specs for the controller and it is indeed a SATA controller, but I didn't see
anything that described it as a RAID controller. I didn't look *real* hard
but I did look. Therefore, I believe what you have is a software RAID
configuration via the Windows OS vs. a hardware RAID. This can be verified by
looking at Disk Manager. If you see two disks with redundancy, then you have
a software RAID config, perhaps via the Windows OS. If you see one disk with
no redundancy, then it is in fact a hardware RAID and my theory goes out the
window.
I'm guessing you have a software RAID, which, in my experience with a failed
Netware server, does not mirror the OS / boot files and this is why your
computer would not boot after the failure of a single hard drive. A hardware
RAID configuration will mirror not only data, but the boot files as well and
spare you this nightmare.
That said, and assuming you have a software RAID, then I think the solution
would have been to replace the failed HDD and begin running the ASR restore
which would have partitioned the new HDD to the same specs as the original
(that is what one of the files on the floppy disk does) and then a basic OS
would have been installed via the Windows XP CD and THEN, the System State /
Registry and other files contained in the .bkf filewould have been restored
to the C drive.
At this point you would have a bootable hard drive with the OS in the same
"up to date" files (SP1) as when the ASR backup was done.
Again, assuming a software RAID, you would then go to Disk Manager and go
through the process to bring the DATA from the mirrored drive back onto the D
drive partition of the new HDD.
I know you said you pressed F6 during the boot to the Windows CD in order to
specify a RAID driver, but frankly I'm ignoring this or else my theory is
debunked.
I was also confused about pressing S to install a driver diskette, but you
was there and I wasn't. Conventional drives such as floppy drives shouldn't
need drivers installed during this process.
So, what I have to ask is: What type of hardware RAID controler is on the
computer?
I guess I could have just asked that first, but I got on a roll.

Lawson...

 

[Guest]

Lawson,

I believe it is a hardware RAID. Again, its on the motherboard and
identified as an 82801ER. I believe it is also known as an Intel ICH5R.

Also, though I've said RAID 1 twice now, it is actually a RAID 0 (my
thinking error; this is just a workstation - not a server).

In Computer Management->Disk Management, it shows as one disk, but with
68.95 capacity and "No" under Fault Tolerance. That capacity and no fault
tolerance confirm RAID 0, rather than RAID 1. But the appearance as a single
disk confirms hardware RAID, right?

I do not believe there is a hardware problem. We checked three ways:
1. We used motherboard diagnostics and used the RAID controller BIOS to
confirm the RAID configuration.
2. We ran disk diagnostics on each of the two drives, repeatedly.
3. After restoring the disaster recovery CDs, we ran CHKDSK.
Our conclusion was that something damaged one or more kernel files, and that
is why it wouldn't boot.

We did try pressing "F6" when prompted to let ASR know we had drivers to
install. The "S" is just the response to a prompt when it asks you for the
driver diskette (I don't remember the wording of the prompt).

Besides the Intel 8201ER motherboard controller, the motherboard also
includes a Promise FastTrack 378 controller that is not in use. We did NOT
try switching the drives to that controller. Again, that felt like a
"workaround".

Why didn't the ASR routine (our XP Install, for that matter) use the drivers
we installed with F6 and target the RAID? If it had, I believe all would
have worked.

My conclusion remains that the ASR routine is not a reliable reciovery
mechanism.

Jim

 

[Guest]

So tell me, do you have any CD's that came with that Promise FastTrack 378
controller? What brand computer is it?

 

[Guest]

Well, there's a diskette with driver and setup files. But no CDs that seem
to be specific to that device.

The supplier is Voodoo (as I hope I mentioned in the original post).

Jim

 

[Guest]

The only machines I've dealt with that have hardware RAID controllers have
been server machines. That isn't to say that an old one couldn't be made into
a workstation or that workstations these days come with hardware RAID.

Compaq's, for instance, have a Smart Start CD that let you configure your
hard disks via the hardware RAID device and then once that's done, it prompts
you to select your OS and insert it's CD for installation. You can also get
to it during the boot process, as it is with Dell servers.
The "cable" that you mentioned makes it sound to me like the HDD's are
plugged into a backplane and it is the backplane's cable that is plugged into
the motherboard.
If I'm correct, and the cable were to be plugged into the Promise FastTrack
378 controller, then you would be able to set up your HDD's and their RAID
configuration via the hardware RAID controller's interface as mentioned above.
At this point, the only caveat is that it would wipe the disks clean when
configuring the RAID.
This means you would have to start from scratch with your computer, but, if
a single drive ever failed in the future, you could simply hot swap the
failed HDD and be done with it.
With that kind of recovery available to you, why even bother with Windows'
ASR feature?
So, I'd suggest getting to know that Promise FastTrack 378 controller and
take advantage of it.
Do your clients have the same type computer that you do? If not, then you
can't take this experience that you've had and apply it to their machines,
thus, ASR may work very well for them provided that their machines have
floppy drives and a way to get to the .bkf file for a restore procedure.
So, get to know that controller, and, good luck!

Lawson...

 

[Guest]

I thought you might like to know:
I purchased an IOMEGA 60Gb external hard drive with a couple of new laptops.
The software has a backup / system restore feature. So, I did a system backup
on a Dell laptop running Windows XP. Then booted the laptop to a Windows CD
and removed the partition on the hard drive, simulating a new hard drive
replacement with nothing on it.
I then booted to the CD that came with the Iomega rig. It has a boot option
to begin a restore, so I did. It worked perfectly. No worries about floppy
drives or any of that stuff.

Lawson...