Asia-Pacific still hasn't heard of AMD yet

[bbbl67]

Well, I'm starting to see Lost Angel's perspective about AMD. Looks
like AMD has not penetrated Asia-Pacific to any great degree yet.
Whereas those of us in North America are seeing very visible signs of
AMD's success everytime we go to a store, A-P remains largely loyal to
Intel still. In servers, Intel maintains 95.7% marketshare in A-P (not
including Japan).

Interestingly, AMD's marketshare is pretty reasonable in PCs in A-P,
but even there it's highly concentrated in one huge country, China,
where AMD PC's are pretty popular. AMD has 18% marketshare in China,
and that translates to 14% share in A-P. So it's probable that outside
of China & Japan, there's not a lot of AMD presence.

ZDNet India > News > hardware > Dell-AMD deal won't hurt Intel in AP,
yet
http://www.zdnetindia.com/news/hardware/stories/149403.html

Yousuf Khan

 

[nobody]

Well, I'm starting to see Lost Angel's perspective about AMD. Looks
like AMD has not penetrated Asia-Pacific to any great degree yet.
Whereas those of us in North America are seeing very visible signs of
AMD's success everytime we go to a store, A-P remains largely loyal to
Intel still. In servers, Intel maintains 95.7% marketshare in A-P (not
including Japan).

Interestingly, AMD's marketshare is pretty reasonable in PCs in A-P,
but even there it's highly concentrated in one huge country, China,
where AMD PC's are pretty popular. AMD has 18% marketshare in China,
and that translates to 14% share in A-P. So it's probable that outside
of China & Japan, there's not a lot of AMD presence.

ZDNet India > News > hardware > Dell-AMD deal won't hurt Intel in AP,
yet
http://www.zdnetindia.com/news/hardware/stories/149403.html

Yousuf Khan

Apparently the region doesn't matter much for AMD, all things
considered. AMD already sells everything they produce flat out. What
they need at this point is more capacity, not penetration of new
market. Besides for obvious reasons the 3rd world is mostly the dump
for Celerons and older Pentiums, A64 are probably beyond the normal
price point for the region, and it doesn't make sense for AMD to shift
production to lower margin Semprons just to get better looking numbers
in the region.

NNN

 

[bbbl67]

Apparently the region doesn't matter much for AMD, all things
considered. AMD already sells everything they produce flat out. What
they need at this point is more capacity, not penetration of new
market. Besides for obvious reasons the 3rd world is mostly the dump
for Celerons and older Pentiums, A64 are probably beyond the normal
price point for the region, and it doesn't make sense for AMD to shift
production to lower margin Semprons just to get better looking numbers
in the region.

Maybe, maybe not, but in North America, AMD didn't do much advertising
either, but it got a reaction once it started the lawsuit. It seems as
if Intel is not too worried about the lawsuit in this region, and
continues with it here.

Yousuf Khan

 

[The little lost angel]

It really depends on where in AP, although i'm not quite sure what's
my perspective on AMD, care to enlighten?

Blame AMD for that, for years we hardly see any signs of AMD
marketing.

Part of it probably has to do with AMD's allocation policy. Locally,
there is quite a strong ground support for AMD. And for a while back
last year, it seems to me that friends in the business were generally
indicating that they are selling more AMD whiteboxes and/or cpu/boards
than Intel... until AMD choked on supplying.

Like nobody said, they are pretty much selling out everything they can
produce so it's hardly surprising they focus on the more established
and lucrative markets like US/Europe/Japan/China than the rest of AP.

 

[bbbl67]

It really depends on where in AP, although i'm not quite sure what's
my perspective on AMD, care to enlighten?

Well, you've said in the past that you hardly see AMD being bought in
your country.

Blame AMD for that, for years we hardly see any signs of AMD
marketing.

Yeah, but AMD hardly advertises anywhere. Don't you watch Formula 1
racing? Those Ferraris are the extent of advertising your country is
going to get.

Part of it probably has to do with AMD's allocation policy. Locally,
there is quite a strong ground support for AMD. And for a while back
last year, it seems to me that friends in the business were generally
indicating that they are selling more AMD whiteboxes and/or cpu/boards
than Intel... until AMD choked on supplying.

But buying Opterons shouldn't be a problem anywhere. The 95.7% Intel
A-P marketshare is about servers, and server chips. Or are the majority
of servers out there more like desktops turned into servers?

Like nobody said, they are pretty much selling out everything they can
produce so it's hardly surprising they focus on the more established
and lucrative markets like US/Europe/Japan/China than the rest of AP.

But aren't there some major OEMs out in A-P which export outside of
their local regions? It seems if there's an OEM out there, AMD will be
allocating chips to them. Where's Acer from?

Yousuf Khan

 

[Dave Beh]

Yup, You are right, AMD processors are not as widely acceptable as
Intel in the asia-pacific region especially south-east asia even though
AMD 64 has been in the market for years. I guess this is mainly due to
the conservative perception towards AMD processor's performance (heat
issues and low L2 cache) and availability of amd based notebooks. We
don't find many amd based notebooks in this region. Some of the non-pc
savvy don't even know what is amd. Resellers are reluctant to push for
amd based notebooks.

Well, if amd were to put more effort in advertising, things might
change one day.

Dave

 

[George Macdonald]

Yup, You are right, AMD processors are not as widely acceptable as
Intel in the asia-pacific region especially south-east asia even though
AMD 64 has been in the market for years. I guess this is mainly due to
the conservative perception towards AMD processor's performance (heat
issues and low L2 cache) and availability of amd based notebooks. We
don't find many amd based notebooks in this region. Some of the non-pc
savvy don't even know what is amd. Resellers are reluctant to push for
amd based notebooks.

Well, if amd were to put more effort in advertising, things might
change one day.

Seems like there's a message that is getting umm, perverted somewhere here:
AMD64 desktop CPUs are well known for running much cooler than any
"competitive" P4 offerings... by a long way; as well as lower temps under
load, their adaptive thermal management works very well. Any "heat issues"
date back to early K6s... about 10 years ago. As for L2 cache, 512KB & 1MB
was enough until very recently and the L1 is 128KB... twice that of Intel
CPUs.

With laptops, AMD has not paid enough attention to that space, technically
or in OEM relations -- I'm sure you've also heard about the anti-trust
suits -- and the Pentium-M was a strong Intel offering... though AMD is
making some headway.

 

[bbbl67]

Yup, You are right, AMD processors are not as widely acceptable as
Intel in the asia-pacific region especially south-east asia even though
AMD 64 has been in the market for years. I guess this is mainly due to
the conservative perception towards AMD processor's performance (heat
issues and low L2 cache) and availability of amd based notebooks. We
don't find many amd based notebooks in this region. Some of the non-pc
savvy don't even know what is amd. Resellers are reluctant to push for
amd based notebooks.

Well, if amd were to put more effort in advertising, things might
change one day.

But you see, AMD doesn't do all that much more advertising in North
America than it does in A-P, or anywhere else in the world. However,
AMD still caught on here in NA. I can't help but think there are two
reasons for this: (1) Intel hasn't stopped its monopolistic practices
in this part of the world, and (2) the newer image of AMD still hasn't
filtered its way to A-P from NA yet. Point #2 is heavily dependent on
point #1 too.

AMD gained immediate traction in the retail markets and enterprise
markets of the world once it launched its anti-trust lawsuit against
Intel in the US. The lawsuit had the effect of making Intel very
nervous about enforcing its quotas within the North American market
because it didn't want to give AMD recent evidence of its practices
during the trial. However, it's much harder to enforce these court
orders in other countries besides the US, so it likely continues the
anti-competitive practices there.

Point #2 about having old perceptions is dependent on the anti-trust
suit too. Intel's iron-handed enforcement of its quotas prevents OEMs
from selling AMD systems, and people tend to think that these OEMs
don't sell AMD because they don't trust AMD for some obscure
technological reasons. It serves as a massive FUD against AMD -- why do
so many OEMs avoid AMD? Of course most people don't know that the
reason is because Intel is artificially forcing them not to sell AMD
systems. These days AMD is widely considered (in NA) to have better
thermal solutions than Intel, so if AMD is still perceived as being
hotter than Intel then that's an outdated perception.

I note that even Europe was lagging a little bit in its enthusiasm for
AMD, until they saw that North America was embracing it. It seems in
the PC space, fashion flows outward from North America to Europe and
then eventually to Asia.

Yousuf Khan

 

[George Macdonald]

I note that even Europe was lagging a little bit in its enthusiasm for
AMD, until they saw that North America was embracing it. It seems in
the PC space, fashion flows outward from North America to Europe and
then eventually to Asia.

I tend to think the popularity of AMD in mass market has filtered down from
the DIY gaming/OCing/modding community, in Europe just as in the U.S. The
UK has been AMD for high-end DIY gaming for almost as long as U.S. and
there have been vendors, like www.overclockers.co.uk who have catered to
that market... and who are now gaining share in the lower priced market.
IIRC Dixons group, owner of www.pcworld.co.uk, a large chain
retailer/e-tailer, was also one of those in the UK who was being
greenmailed by Intel. They were "Intel exclusively" until recently but now
have a few AMD systems, so the lawsuit is apparently having some effect
there too.

 

[The little lost angel]

Seems like there's a message that is getting umm, perverted somewhere here:
AMD64 desktop CPUs are well known for running much cooler than any
"competitive" P4 offerings... by a long way; as well as lower temps under
load, their adaptive thermal management works very well. Any "heat issues"
date back to early K6s... about 10 years ago. As for L2 cache, 512KB & 1MB
was enough until very recently and the L1 is 128KB... twice that of Intel
CPUs.

Blame a certain tom for a certain controversial video in the K7 era
that burnt a chip and of course lead to features that made it never
again possible to turn the tables on Intel with a similar chip burning
video.

 

[bbbl67]

I tend to think the popularity of AMD in mass market has filtered down from
the DIY gaming/OCing/modding community, in Europe just as in the U.S. The
UK has been AMD for high-end DIY gaming for almost as long as U.S. and
there have been vendors, like www.overclockers.co.uk who have catered to
that market... and who are now gaining share in the lower priced market.
IIRC Dixons group, owner of www.pcworld.co.uk, a large chain
retailer/e-tailer, was also one of those in the UK who was being
greenmailed by Intel. They were "Intel exclusively" until recently but now
have a few AMD systems, so the lawsuit is apparently having some effect
there too.

Yeah, DIYers were always supportive of AMD. But it was the enterprise
which really brought AMD to the forefront. It was in the enterprise
where AMD was having a bit of trouble initially getting their foot in
the door of in Europe. Europe didn't embrace it till it really started
taking off in NA, and all of those stories started coming out about how
good the Opterons are.

Yousuf Khan

 

[George Macdonald]

Blame a certain tom for a certain controversial video in the K7 era
that burnt a chip and of course lead to features that made it never
again possible to turn the tables on Intel with a similar chip burning
video.

Hmm, talking of the devil, was "Tom" still around then? Dunno what's
happened to him since TGP seemed to "take over"... which I hadn't even
noticed. Was the ejection of Tom all done in secret?... wonder what he got
paid to exit silently?... or just nobody cared?

Did you see this: http://omid.tomshardware.com/ for the attack on
Kristopher Kubicki and Anandtech? Looks like war to me and Mr.Rahmat is a
very vindictive character. IMO the best part of it all is that www.tgp.com
(TGP is a "moniker" they use for Tom's Guide Publishing) is a "Fine
Pornography" guide & blog site - how appropriate. Honest, really... I just
entered www.tgp.com thinking it'd get more info on the management of TGP
than they seem to want to give at http://tgpublishing.net/.

Anyway, to come back to the subject at ahem, hand: that would mean that
everybody missed the comparison soak test where the AMD64 just ran... and
ran and.... while the P4 kept falling on its face... though they did try to
cover it up somewhat.

 

[George Macdonald]

Yeah, DIYers were always supportive of AMD. But it was the enterprise
which really brought AMD to the forefront. It was in the enterprise
where AMD was having a bit of trouble initially getting their foot in
the door of in Europe. Europe didn't embrace it till it really started
taking off in NA, and all of those stories started coming out about how
good the Opterons are.

The info I had, a while back, was that AMD was doing quite a bit of
primetime TV advertising in the UK. I still think they have a ways to go
to get more acceptance in the enterprise, even in the U.S. As I noted in
another thread here, HP now has AMD systems in their business oriented
brochures but last month was the first time.

AMD really needs to clean up its act in the area of support for business
oriented solutions. One specific instance I've just come across: I want to
build an Intranet server using Windows 2000 Server and they have no drivers
posted for the X2 CPUs for Win2K. There are loads of companies out there
who have not made the transition to Windows Server 2003 and who won't be
doing it soon. One has to ask what they think of this.

 

[The little lost angel]

Hmm, talking of the devil, was "Tom" still around then? Dunno what's
happened to him since TGP seemed to "take over"... which I hadn't even
noticed. Was the ejection of Tom all done in secret?... wonder what he got
paid to exit silently?... or just nobody cared?

TGP didn't come in until much much later AFAIK.

Did you see this: http://omid.tomshardware.com/ for the attack on
Kristopher Kubicki and Anandtech? Looks like war to me and Mr.Rahmat is a
very vindictive character. IMO the best part of it all is that www.tgp.com

I don't follow blogs usually. That rant entry was, honestly, boring
like most other rants about "the other side". The preceding entry
about Claire Goodhue however was almost a tear jerker for me and a man
can't be that bad if he can bother to spend time on that. Okie, so I'm
a sucker. pP

(TGP is a "moniker" they use for Tom's Guide Publishing) is a "Fine
Pornography" guide & blog site - how appropriate. Honest, really... I just
entered www.tgp.com thinking it'd get more info on the management of TGP
than they seem to want to give at http://tgpublishing.net/.

OMG! LOL!!!

Anyway, to come back to the subject at ahem, hand: that would mean that
everybody missed the comparison soak test where the AMD64 just ran... and
ran and.... while the P4 kept falling on its face... though they did try to
cover it up somewhat.

It's for the simple reason that failure while running a PC is nothing
new to most people. Burning up a chip is another level altogether

 

[bbbl67]

AMD really needs to clean up its act in the area of support for business
oriented solutions. One specific instance I've just come across: I want to
build an Intranet server using Windows 2000 Server and they have no drivers
posted for the X2 CPUs for Win2K. There are loads of companies out there
who have not made the transition to Windows Server 2003 and who won't be
doing it soon. One has to ask what they think of this.

Wouldn't you just be using the multiprocessor HAL and a regular old AMD
cpu driver. I doubt there's any specific support for any of the latest
dual-core Intel processors in Win2K either.

Yousuf Khan

 

[George Macdonald]

Wouldn't you just be using the multiprocessor HAL and a regular old AMD
cpu driver. I doubt there's any specific support for any of the latest
dual-core Intel processors in Win2K either.

There's no specific support for any new AMD CPUs in WinXP either - you need
drivers and even then, there is a bug
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=330512 for which M$ has a "Hotfix" which
is not available for DL without jumping through hoops. All that's needed
for Win2K is a driver with the same functionality... which has been
available for a while... but not AFAIK for X2 versions. I may have better
info tomorrow.

BTW I sent the standard AMD Support e-mail and received an auto-respond
reply which is just a blank message. Somebody is not "doing it right" at
AMD! Like I said they need to clean up their act - people expect better.